I'm looking to invest in my first Porsche, and I'm having trouble deciding whether I should target a 991.1 base or a 981S. There are a number of threads (here and elsewhere) that are focused on why one might be better than the other, but I can't seem to find feedback that's relevant to the points I'm considering.

I want a NA flat six and a manual transmission. I don't need rear seats (I don't have children or pets, so they're a waste for me; I'd consider the "delete" mod for storage space), so that's not a factor in my decision.

Visually, I like the front half of the 981 more, but I prefer the rear of the 991, so that's a toss-up, too.

Power and torque : weight ratio is close enough that I don't have a preference in that department.

I'm really most concerned with the handling of each vehicle. I understand that, in a vacuum, a mid-engine layout is preferable due to the weight distribution and its impact on moment of inertia, etc. I also understand that a sufficient amount of engineering has been put into the 991 chassis and suspension, so that the 991 platform has the capability to perform favorably to the 981 platform. My understanding is that the 981 has better turn-in, but the 991 has better performance on corner exit. So, I'm not so worried about "which is better"; I think, with these trim levels, they're likely both great -- just different.

I am torn, because I have always wanted a 911, but the general consensus seems to be that the 981S offers tremendous feedback, whereas many have described the 991 as feeling "GT-esque", bloated, and soft by comparison. I want a car that's engaging and communicative -- analog, if you will (minus the EPS). I don't know that I'd necessarily prefer the mid-engine car, but I would be unhappy with the 911 if it didn't offer an engaging experience or provide ample feedback.

I am curious... many who describe the 991 as above are discussing the C2S with its dynamic suspension, braking, and chassis controls, which while certainly responsible for a performance improvement, can isolate a driver from the feel of the car.

My question is: in the base trim, without PASM, PTV, or PDCC, is the 991 really a soft handling vehicle, and does it lack driver feedback? If I were to pick up a base 991, without those dynamic controls, would the car feel communicative and analog, similar to the 981S, albeit with a rear-biased weight distribution, or would it still feel synthetic?

Appreciate the feedback!

 

I will try to answer parts of your larger question

I have driven a few 981s but have never owned one, I have a 987S and a 991.1 N/A (both Manual) so I totally get your WANT for an N/A Porsche with a Manual Transmission, trust me you are on the right track. You can always move on to a PDK car or a Turbo car, but these N/A with Manual combos are drying up fast, enjoy them while we can

As for handling, the 987S shares similar handling characteristics as the 981. To me my 987 feels better balanced at its limit and I feel I can push it to its limit (usually on wet days, hard to push ANY car to its true limit on streets) pretty quickly and without much effort. If someone asked me to do decently quick and consistent lap times around an Auto-X circuit, I would pick my 987. BUT, and this is a big but, I feel the 987S lacks the drama and excitement I get from the 911. Setting aside the allure of the 911, it just has more to give if you dare, there is more to be had if you are brave enough to really push its limits. (again, I only feel I do that on rainy days). Where I feel like I have gotten to the limits of my 987 on several occasions, I still treat my 911 with respect and I am still learning how to drive it near limit after 4 years of owning 3 different 991.1 cars.
Lastly, I haver had 2 991s with Sport-PASM and my current one has Sport-PASM + PDCC and I can say with confidence that each additional technological excellence came with a small degree of lack of connection. I feel the connection my 987 has is as analogue as it gets, and I have to assume that a non-PASM base Carrera will give you that 996/997-esque connection that has been lost in pursuit of lap times and magazine accolades but adding more and more tech to the 911. If at any time you feel that you have reached the capabilities of the base suspension, you can always add a set of coil-overs, corner balance the car and you have a better set up than PASM.
I would say do some research on how to add an LSD to your base Manual 911 as that is something you will want on a pure RWD Sports car, otherwise from a purist perspective, the Base 991.1 is plenty of car for 99% of drivers.

 

Thanks -- this was great feedback, and I appreciate it!

re: the LSD... I'll be budgeting for a Guards LSD and a Numeric Short Shifter, regardless of which direction I go in.

 

OP: I actually think you summed it up pretty good. For reference, I own three Porsches. 73k miles on my 981, 44k on my 991.2 and 5k on my 992 GT3. I've tracked all three and about 10 other Porsches. Original owner on all three and all are manuals. The 991.2 is a C4 with PASM, SC, PSE. 981 has the same options. I recall the C4 also has PTV.

As far has handling goes, I prefer the 981. The 911 has pretty serious under steer on turn-in but is good on the exit with all that weight in the back to put the power down to the pavement. The 981 is very well balanced and I feel much more confident in it when pushing the car over my 911. It lacks the power that the 911 has but is still loads of fun on the street. They are both totally different cars in nearly every respect. I love them both but prefer the 981 for the handling. I'm not one of those guys who can notice small differences in suspension set up. Some folks can but I cannot.

My GT3 is on an entirely different plane and has somewhat diminished the experience of my other Porsches. That car is unbelievable.

 

I have a 991.1 pdk 3.4 and a 718 Cayman S 6spd. I am 6'1" and find the Cayman a little tight keep that in mind. The Cayman turns better but I do like the rear push from the 911 when exiting a curve. What are you currently driving, most probabaly the Porsche is a big step up. I think a base is more than enough for the street and makes a nice usable car. Personally, PASM, PTV, or PDCC is a waste on the street as you really need to be pushing the car to need these. If you were to track it that is a different manner. Try to drive both before you decide, even if you can only test drive a PDK version of each

 

Thanks all; this has been helpful.

I certainly understand that the 991 and 981 handle differently and that different people prefer one approach to the other (and I am looking for opportunities to test drive, but it's hard to find the right generation of ea close by).

Specifically for those that have driven the 991 without PDCC, etc. (or even with it):
did you find the car to be lacking in feedback or did you find that it felt soft?

I'm definitely not interested in a car that feels lazy or that doesn't do a good job of communicating to the driver. The 991 and 981 are relatively close in weight and overall dimensions, so I guess I've found it concerning that there is a fair amount of discussion around it feeling huge or "like a boat". Are these comments outliers, or do they have some merit?

i want a car that's engaging and sharp - one that will reward me every time I drive it, that won't "think" for me, and that will do a good job of letting me know how the road feels, etc.

 

In the recent past, I owned a 2004 GT3. Followed by a 2015 Cayman GTS , then a 991.1 S sans Sport Chrono and now with a 991.2 GTS. Of the 9 cars I have owner, 7 have been 911 cars. I wanted the Cayman for its driving capabilities, mid-engine and all, and I mean ALL, the "Track Nannies" available. I told it to the track, all my cars have been to the track, and the 981 Cayman GTS was the easiest to drive, and had the most sparkling performance. I wasn't afraid to push the car, feeling that the nannies would;d save me, and they did. But I longed for a 911...feeling a real Porsche is a 911. I sold the Cayman GTS, and replace it with a 991.1 S, feeling that it (981 GTS) was driving he car, covering up \my mistakes, not me. At the track, the 991.1 S and the Cayman GTS about the same times. That was OK by me...I was in a 911. It had a back seat, that I used for luggage, tools, etc. I had a secret desire for a GTS 911 car, one came along and that is where I am now....would I go back to a Cayman GTS, the epitome of the model? Not on your life. I missed my back seat too. True it was a 9A1 engine out of the 991.1, BUT it was NOT a 911.

 

When you have a few more posts up, you'll be able to send a Private Message. When that happens, send me a PM with your email, and I'll send you an article I just wrote, specific to comparisons of a 981 and 911.1

 

Love this choice! I've owned a Boxster 981S previously and currently in a hardtop 991.1S, and here are my takes.

• The takes on the 991 series being bloated and GT-car like are completely overblown. They're sportscars through and through, and you won't be disappointed unless you're coming from a older, more analogue Porsche, Lotus, Ferrari or something like that
• Whether you get the 981S or 991.1, the NA engines are magic. That said, those engines are meant to be revved hard. If you don't do that, the relative lack of low end torque will make you think "what's the fuss?"
• The 981 feels more nimble and go-karty... almost as if a 991 and a Miata had a baby. However, the 991.1 limit is higher... and you will definitely notice that if you track the car (and sometimes drive canyons aggressively)
• The 981 is probably more fun at normal day-to-day speeds due to that go-karty nature, while the 991.1 is more exciting as you open it up and push it
• While the 981S sounds great, the sound on the 991.1 NA is other-worldly, even without the sports exhaust. Better than any non-GT, non-modified 981, 987, 996, 997 (driven them all). It puts a smile to my face EVERY time I drive the car
• If it matters to you, there's more pride-of-ownership in the 991. That 911 silohuette is unmistakable, and much appreciated by car and non-car people alike. My 991.1S gets more attention than my Boxster did
• The back seat does make a difference. The kids or friends don't love riding in the back for long stretches, but in a pinch, it's very useful
• Resale value - all else being equal, the 991 will hold its value better than the 981 due to its iconic status. The 911 is one of the very top vehicles in any class on resale, so one can argue it's actually a better financial decision than the 981 over time. The service/upkeep costs are pretty similar

 

That's reassuring, very good to hear.

There's nothing like a high-revving NA motor that wants to be thrashed. I learned to drive on early 2000s Hondas, so this is exactly what I'm looking for.

This really helps me contextualize some of the information I've consumed regarding this decision.

Appreciate the feedback from everyone! This has all been very helpful for me, and it's alleviated some of the concerns I had regarding the 991.

 

Go find one for sale and test drive it. It's not going to feel like a boat, that sounds stupid.

 

Glad it was helpful. But like DC991S said, I'd suggest test driving both and seeing for yourself what you'd prefer.

Also, I didn't catch that you'd prefer a manual. If that's the case, I think many prefer the 981 6-speed vs the 991 7-speed.

One final point - seems like you value handling and steering feel. If that's the case, I'd avoid at ALL COSTS any build with power steering plus (991 or 981).

 

Before you decide (or try to) go drive a 911. Even modern versions have a unique feel, beyond what you might call handling. I have owned older and new 911s and a Boxster. For size and hp, the Boxster handles "better", near the peak of neutral performance. But I strongly prefer the unique feel of a 911, especially for driving on the road.

 

Before getting my first 911. In retrospect this was a mistake. After a long and colorful life I have learned to buy the product a manufacturer is most proud of making. That being said, if your a track rat at base 911 money I would buy a Miata so you can enjoy your passion and afford consumables. Is there any reason you want a base instead of an S model ? For me a sports car HP number that seems right is 400hp. Also the S offers superior braking and wheels.

 

Yep -- will avoid PSP like the plague. I originally considered 987.2 / 997.2 for the hydraulic steering, but decided: (i) I didn't want a car that old; (ii) I wouldn't be happy sacrificing the throttle response for the steering feedback (bit of a balance there...)

I've also heard the 6 speed is better in terms of feel, and while it seems to be considered pretty good overall, the general consensus is that neither is anything to write home about.

Shift feel is extremely important to me, so I'll be installing a Numeric short shifter and cables either way.

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I briefly considered an S, specifically for the brakes, but:
(i) it comes at a considerable price premium over the 981S / base 991.
(ii) I'm not interested in PTV or PASM (I understand these offer an objective increase in performance -- so does forced induction and PDK; I'm not interested in that experience, though... the future will offer more, and better, dynamic systems, and I'll enjoy them and their performance benefits then).
(iii) feedback seems to be that the S has too much power / tq to enjoy on the street. I want to enjoy revving out the NA motor, and, especially considering the long gearing, I don't think I'd be able to do that with the S, except for when at the track.

So, I decided I was going to get more of the experience I was looking for, more regularly, with the base, and for far less $.

There is certainly something to be said for the "product a manufacturer is most proud of making", and that's part of the draw of the 911. Certainly, more work has been out into the chassis, etc.