Red Arrow

Blue dot


Possible injection spots. Straight off turbo before I/C (Blue dot) and or Red Arrow after I/C.

 

The raised (red) dot on the end tanks on the TiAL’s are not by accident - they were designed to be drilled and tapped for NPT water/meth nozzles.

It’s much more efficient to spray W/M post intercooler to cool IAT’s. I have a Snow Performance kit I was planning on installing by tapping the TiAL
IC’s before I decided to go with E85.

 

The blu spot is the worst ,the most common location to place a nozzle is three to six inches from the throttle body or iat. The nozzle should spray directly into the throttle body and should never be placed right before a tight-radius bend btw you will need 2 nozzle one each side for best meth distribution into the manifold or do one nozzle 6-10inch before iat where each side goes into the single charge pipe that is where my nozzle are...
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/content/20-where-to-locate-your-alcohol-water-injection-nozzle

 

Dont inject at the blue arrow-it can cause meth/fluid to pool at the bottom of the end tank. The location for the red arrow will work well for a dual nozzle setup. For a single, go 3-6 inches before the throttle body.

 

Just a question.

With the 'blue dot' the air is leaving the compressor outlet heading towards the IC. With that path, and the angle of the IC end tank wouldn't any access water just drip down towards the compressor outlet?

The 'red dot' is in the IC outlet end tank spraying into the 'cold side', if fluid were to pool it would appear to be able to collect in the outlet end tank as that is below the level of the nozzle, and below the IC inlet.

I have not removed the IC on this car yet, but when there is oil collecting inside the IC, is there more on the cold side end tank? I suspect that wherever the oil collects is where water 'may' collect'.

Worst case scenario is that you are leaking water (bad check valve), and pooling, and when you get on it you are sucking in more water than anticpated. Absolute worst case scenario you have water to the level of a nozzle and that volume of water gets injested.

As mentioned, the red dot is where I would tap based on the 'reinforced thicker' metal to tap for the nozzle(s), the placement after the IC, and the 'relative' closeness to the throttle body. I am personally not super confident tapping into plastic, but that is my personal thoughts at this point having seen them crack (might have been user error).

 

I say spraying water onto the IC externally is the easiest/lowest risk solution because if you inject water into the engine itself, IDEALLY, the car is tuned for it. Spraying water, externally or internally, is using the water as a thermal mass to absorb heat, simple as that. And you want the water to absorb heat by evaporating because the latent heat of vaporization of water is a bit over 500x the specific heat capacity; well, this will happen regardless if any water droplets make it into the combustion chamber. Spray water on the IC, and you're just going to drop the IATs. Spray water into the air going into the engine, ideally, you can run more ignition timing and/or boost. If my memory still works, water injection was first used on the supercharged engines of the P-51 Mustang in WWII. Or maybe the P-38? Anyway, it's been around a long time. Water injection has also been used to reduce NOx which is caused by excessive combustion temps. Keep in mind if spraying pure water into the engine, that water is taking the place of air, so less air in the cylinder to burn fuel. So to take max advantage of water injection, ideally more boost and/or timing is used. Another strategy is to use water strictly for knock reduction. An example would be for the first off-the-shelf COBB tunes that showed enough knock to pull timing. Spraying a little water into the engine in this case would have reduced the timing retardation and kept power up. I mean, the goal of reduced IATs is to reduce knock. I guess if someone was able to make a controller, or hack the factory ecu, to control water injection based on knock detection, that'd be cool. The BMW M4 GTS with water injection system changes the tune if it runs out of water. The modern thing with turbo gas engines is running at Lambda 1 (stoich A/F ratio) for max fuel efficiency and lowest emissions across all loads and rpms; 3-way cats work best when the air/fuel is stoich. In old school (90's-00s) turbo gas tuning, fuel enrichment is necessary to prevent knock. The extra fuel is the extra thermal mass to reduce combustion temps. That's not good for fuel economy or emissions. I found a literature review written recently by an engineer at AVL (anyone in Automotive talks to AVL, they do lots of development and simulation work that OEMs wouldn't pay (hire people and facilities/test equipment) to do themselves) that talks about some of this stuff if you're interested.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/liter...rich-policarpo

Anyway, spray water on the IC and that's that. Spray water, water/meth into the engine, and one should really adjust the tune to take advantage if trying to maximize power. But if you're only interested in knock prevention, then spraying a little water into the engine will certainly help. One could also spray E85 too, but you'd definitely want to tune for that.

 

My car is on V41 of its tune. So yes, of course it will be tuned many more times during the progress.

 

With injecting at the red dot, ideally the meth will get sucked into the airflow and dissipate in the intake tract. It should cause no pooling if working properly. Now if there is a bad check valve, then yes it can pool in the lower intercooler plenum as the nozzles can be lower than the pump/res (always try to mount your nozzles higher than the pump/res to avoid this). Another reason why I like the single nozzle up higher closer to the throttle body.



Here is my throttle body after about 2000 miles of having meth installed. The residue wiped away with some degreaser and I didn’t notice any putting of the throttle body.

 

To add - just take a look at the factory GT2RS IC water sprayer and tank in the frunk.

From Porsche:

“To complement the expansion intake manifold, two large intercoolers at the rear of the vehicle supply the engine with cooled charging air. Under extreme conditions, the newly developed spray system sprays atomised water on the intercooler networks, allowing a thermostable charging air feed.

Maximum output is therefore maintained for longer, even at high exterior temperatures. The tank holds 5 litres of water and is easily accessible in the luggage compartment. A display on the on-board computer shows you when it needs refilling.”




DIY’s have been attempted, it would be relatively simple to set up a manually triggered system as an on-demand cooler.

 

GT2-RS MR


I have seen a few GT2-RS at the track with the MR extended volume tank that piggy backs on top.

They used to use running out of water as an excuse when I was on stock turbo’s. Now I seem to be on track all by myself these days. 🤣

 

This would be very easy to do, but the last thing I wanted to do when tracking my Subaru STi was to hit the IC button. I did it, but it was very annoying. Going to a FMIC and a much larger IC addressed the air intake and heat soak issues for that platform.

There are very basic controllers that can easily automate spraying an IC, and with some simple programming and trial and error I suspect a more sophisticated program could be written.

@4 Point 0 Those GT2 RS tanks are pretty, and the piggy back tank is a nice solution.

 

Agreed, at the track you have enough to think about. I will have a fully integrated, automatic system, that advises me when it needs filling.

 

Reminds me of the time I was at the track in my Subaru and then went for some laps with another guy with a similar Subaru STi.

I was freaking out that he was trying to hit the IC spray button every chance he had while negotiating the track. He kept reaching for a button while trying to steer / shift. Made me realize I had an IC spray button and had never used it.

 

I laugh when guys ask me how fast I take turn one. I usually say, “If you’ve got time to look at the speedo, you’re not going fast enough.” 🤣.

 

It doesn’t need to be a super complex system. Need a reservoir with a level indicator integrated into your dash? That’s what the 3 gallon windshield reservoir tank is for.

Then you can setup a simple WOT switch that activates a low voltage water pump when the accelerator pedal hits the floor.

It’s pretty basic stuff.