swish77

New member here close to buying my first Porsche, which will be a 991.1, and I've run into something that is baffling, for me anyway. Can someone please explain why a base C4 991 is valued less than a base C2? Sure, there are many different factors, age, mileage, condition, options, etc .... But similar C4 and C2 cars have quite the price/value gap on the secondary market, according to the sales listings I'm seeing and KBB pricing.

I would have assumed it would be the other way around. The AWD drive version of the 991 was a more expensive option and is more rare. And I know there's debate about which is a "better" car to drive, but from what I've read, tons of guys swear the C4 is a better handling car and love the slightly wider stance in the rear.

I test drove a base 2016 C2 with 14K miles, virtually no options (and no sunroof) and loved it. Then I test drove a base 2013 C4 with 17K miles and loaded with several cool options (sports exhaust, heated seats/steering wheel, PASM, among them) and a sunroof, and also loved it. However, when you value each of the cars, the C2 is worth more by about $2500, according to KBB, even when factoring in all of the options and even if the C4 was also a 2016 and had the same mileage.

I'd love to hear opinions as to the possible reasons behind the differences. Sure, I should buy the car I like better, but I'd also like to think I'm getting a Porsche that will hold its value.

Thanks!

dannyss

My take on why Porsche buyers value the C2 more:
The 911 is a sport car and should be fun to drive. The C2 will allow you to get the rear end into a slide and is thus more fun than the C4. A sport car should be 2 rear wheel drive. The C2 is lighter....
All very subjective. I have a C4S and love to drive it. Puts down power better than a 2. And is rear biased in most situations.
To each there own.

swish77

Yes, some fair points. But that's from a driver's (human) perspective. The pricing provided on KBB is basically a computer saying the C2 is worth more than a C4 on the secondary market, but I suppose that's being driven by the factors you list above, that many drivers prefer a rear-wheel drive sports car instead of a AWD.

Turns me off a little from a C4, which it shouldn't. The handling on it seemed better in my test drives. It was close, but the C4 seemed tighter and with more grip compared to the C2. I forgot to add that both have manual transmissions.

dannyss

I'm sure production numbers also influence KBB.

JuanK20

You're about to start an AWD vs RWD debate lol. It's all subjective. Pros and cons to both. I personally prefer RWD over AWD.

Also, i wouldn't put too much faith in KBB. They value cars wrong a lot. I never use that site for market info. Just look up a 964 911, or an E30 M3 on KBB. Then look at what they're actually selling for. Way off.

You should price out the cars on what the selling prices are in the current market, not by KBB.

desmotesta

for the longest time I was RWD biased till I finally drove a 991 4S. Even at above average street speeds, I frankly did not notice a discernible difference between the AWD and RWD, the steering was slightly more weighted which I actually appreciated and the car was still rear-biased as far as power delivery went.
Both are great and the options, condition and history have a much bigger role in True Market value (Vs paper/hypothetical value) vs whether its 4wd or rwd.

Buy what you prefer and never look back

Jack F

Do you want to slide your rear around corners? If yes, go with the C2. If you want incredible handling, stability and additional safety to keep you on the road, then C4. Drive both again and take some corners more aggressively and see what you think.

Sporty

C4 heavier, more things to go wrong and maintain. OTOH, go look at what 993 C4's are going for/sold for on BAT (over $100k) vs 993 C2s - not sure why, but counter to what you are indicating in terms of future value (go figure?).
Also, what are the asking prices of those two cars you are referencing -do they reflect the KBB values ?

swish77

Ha! Not my intention to start (another) debate. I get it, they're both great in different ways. My question was more about the pricing/value. It's not just KBB pricing. It's the actual market, in the listings on places like Autotrader, CarMax, Cargurus, etc.... The C2 is almost always priced higher than a similar C4. I'm assuming it comes down to the fact that most guys simply feel they don't "need" the AWD feature and therefore don't buy them as much and that in turn drives down the market prices of C4s.

Joec500

anecdotally I see C4 variants sell for more than their C2 counterparts. Remember this is a VERY small subsection of 911 buyers in this forum, the mast majority of 911 owners could give a damn about forums, mods etc. Also people who live in wet and snowy places and actually DD their car love 4 variants and given there are fewer of them, it makes sense they typically sell for more, outside of the enthusiast targeted 2WD variants like GT cars and the T's.

vanlieremead

You all missed it . Age

swish77

The asking price for the 2016 blue metallic C2 with virtually no options was $94K, but I negotiated down to $87,750. The asking price for the loaded 2013 gray metallic C4 was a firm $89,995 from a Porsche dealership. It's also a CPO.

KBB value or the C2 is about $78K to $84K versus about $65K to $72K for the C4. The gap closes by about $6K when you make the 2013 a 2016 in the KBB program.

Jack F

The older C4 by many years is 6k less than the C2. You have to look at years and mileage. There could be a glitch in the kbb data. Looking at you numbers, the C4 sells for more based on age.

swish77

Even when you make the C4 a 2016 to match the C2, it's quite a bit less even though it has a ton more options and it's a AWD.

To further illustrate my point/question, here are two identical fictional Porsches with 18K miles each that I priced on KBB, except one is a C2 and one is a C4. Both are base with "standard" equipment and blue. There's a significant gap in favor of the C2.

Sure, KBB is not gospel, only a guide, but I see this trend also reflected in asking prices in many nationwide listings for the C2 and C4. Again, I just wonder why it's not the other way around when the AWD option cost a lot more when new and many drivers consider it a better handling, safer car.

Tangerine

Maybe more transactions closing for the RWD with the current frenzy, enough sales to drive up the average numbers? It's just a formula, I found GTS 4 cars very hard to do comps on because they are so rare when trying to find actual ones for sale.

Even way way back, I wanted an AWD 991 and kept my eye out for a long time for just the right mix--manual, C4, no sunroof. Couldn't ever find a used one that was "priced right" because the perfect spec ones I guess people hold onto them. So I panicked at the end of the run and wound up custom ordering a GTS 4 exactly how I wanted it. And I won't even consider selling it in this crazy market because I fear I'd never be able to find something to replace it.