Should I get a 991 or 992?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 134
Likes: 53
From: Dallas
Should I get a 991 or 992?
Long time reader; first time poster.
I have chosen the worst possible time to want to buy my first 911. I know I will probably wait for a 992; but I find myself considering getting a 991 for a couple years then buying the 992+.
I want to believe that the 991 has depreciated significantly, and the earlier model years have reached a good balance of age vs cost. Unfortunately, I do expect the truth is the market which is has driven the high costs of 992s has inflated the 991 as well.
My question to those who have owned Porsches for much longer than me - how inflated is the 991 market? I’m seeing 2013/4 / convertible / base 911s with <25k miles for 70-80k. In a “normal” market, would you expect this price range to be 50-60k?
Disclaimer: I know that cars depreciate & are not an investment. I’m not trying to kid myself; I know I’m burning money to have a ”fun” car. I just want to know how much more I’m wasting to get one “today”.
I have chosen the worst possible time to want to buy my first 911. I know I will probably wait for a 992; but I find myself considering getting a 991 for a couple years then buying the 992+.
I want to believe that the 991 has depreciated significantly, and the earlier model years have reached a good balance of age vs cost. Unfortunately, I do expect the truth is the market which is has driven the high costs of 992s has inflated the 991 as well.
My question to those who have owned Porsches for much longer than me - how inflated is the 991 market? I’m seeing 2013/4 / convertible / base 911s with <25k miles for 70-80k. In a “normal” market, would you expect this price range to be 50-60k?
Disclaimer: I know that cars depreciate & are not an investment. I’m not trying to kid myself; I know I’m burning money to have a ”fun” car. I just want to know how much more I’m wasting to get one “today”.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 322
Likes: 220
From: Athens, GA
I think your market estimates are in the ballpark. My advice is, “just do it”. Find one you like and if it has a satisfactory PPI buy it, drive it, and enjoy it. I did that with a 2014 C2 Cab and I have zero regrets.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 763
Likes: 311
From: Zzz
The older .1s are probably $10k overpriced (most situations). Not a huge amount of money considering the car is at least $60k and maintenance/repairs/insurance are all pretty high. Bottom line is it’s pay to play with Porsche and right now you’re paying a little more than usual. I’m sure the 992 is better in almost every way. Whether it’s worth the price differential is up to you.
N.
N.
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,663
Likes: 557
From: Solana Beach, CA
991 992
The market is a little mad.. I have a 991.1 the past 7 months: This is my seventh Porsche prior two being 2004 GT3, then a Cayman GTS, and now the 991.1....the best of the bunch.
And since you asked....below is material from a article I am working on.....
PERFORMANCE 991.1 Carrera S
Indisputable proof of the 991.1 Carrera S performance gains over its predecessor, the 997.2 Carrera S, is confirmed noting that the 911.1 Carrera S lapped the thirteen (13) mile Nürburgring’s Nordschleife Section fourteen (14) seconds faster than the earlier 997.2 model. Enough said.
More from Porsche Engineering Magazine on the 991.1, the January, 2012 edition, “The Carrera S with 3.8 liters displacement, was designed according to motor racing principles for high revs. The maximum engine speed of the six-cylinder engines has been increased to 7,800 rpm. The entire intake manifold has also been optimized. The intake air routes through flow-optimized channels, new multi-hole injectors inject the fuel more efficiently and exhaust emissions exit the 991.1 Carrera through a system with reduced back- pressure. The fine-tuning of the aero-dynamics has succeeded in reducing the total lift (CA) of the new 991.1 Carrera models by 0.02, to a mere 0.05.”
They also note “Even more agility in the 991.1 Carrera is provided by Porsche Torque Vectoring (PTV) standard on the Carrera S. This system consists of a mechanical limited-slip rear differential and variable torque distribution to the rear axle.”
Additionally, for the first time ever, “Porsche has used electro-mechanical power steering developed from scratch for the 991.1 Carrera. This also has a tangible effect on driving performance.”
Further, “Another decisive contribution to the impressive increased performance of the 991.1 Carrera is provided by the entirely newly developed, optional, Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC system able to exercise individual control over the hydraulic actuators (Formerly known as drop links: Italics mine.), depending on the driving situation, influencing self-steering behavior in the process and consequently improving vehicle stabilization.”
LIGHTWEIGHT CONSTRUCTIONS 991.1 Carrera S
Porsche Engineering Magazine, the January, 2012 edition, also reports, with the 991.1 Carrera and Carrera S, “Porsche sets new standards in lightweight construction. The key to success was lightweight construction throughout the vehicle. For the first time in the 991.1 Carrera, an aluminum-steel body construction has been used. The underlying idea of this design is using the right material in the right place. The extensive use of aluminum to reduce the vehicle’s weight is therefore balanced with elements of steel of varying degrees of strength for a more rigid body and optimum occupant protection. Parts that are especially important for passive safety, such as the inner roof frame and the B-pillar, have been made in ultra-high-strength, boron-alloyed steels. The new modular roof design also provides advantages in terms of weight. For the series model without a sliding roof, the steel outer skin of the roof has been replaced with significantly lighter aluminum.”
Further, “The drive train, chassis and electrical equipment have all also been comprehensively redesigned to be lighter.” As an example, “The newly constructed front axle with compact lightweight suspension strut.”
Also noting, “The basis of the sound design for the air intake and exhaust systems in the 991.1 Carrera was created in the very early stages of the vehicle’s design. The lay- out and dimensions of the manifolds, pipes, catalytic converters and mufflers were all visually illustrated and evaluated with the help of a computer model before there was even any hardware.”
Additionally, Porsche Engineering Magazine, in the January, 2012 edition reports, “The development of muffler systems is one of the core competencies at Porsche and is always carried out at the Weissach Development Center. In order to allow the driver to feel the revs and the power of the engine, the pathways of the air intake and mechanical engine sounds are tuned so that messages from the 911 to the driver are transmitted in as pure and unadulterated form as possible in all driving conditions.”
From Excellence Magazine, the “991 series introduced a “sound symposer” feature which pipes intake noise into the cabin during certain conditions. A tube is connected between the engine firewall and the intake pipe just downstream of the air filter box. Mounted in the tube is a special Helmholtz resonator chamber with a tuned rubber diaphragm inside. When a vacuum-operated switching valve is opened (via console-mounted “Sport” mode switch), intake noise is piped into the cabin, with the diaphragm amplifying the vibrations much as the human eardrum does. An additional Helmholtz resonator chamber is mounted on the 991 air filter box to amplify the intake noise between 4,500 and 6,000 RPM (a flap opens to allow airflow through this resonator.”
- Carrera S
- PDK
- Sport Exhaust
- Sun roof delete.
- PSM (Porsche Stability Management), in conjunction with PASM swapped out with A DSC V3 controller
And since you asked....below is material from a article I am working on.....
PERFORMANCE 991.1 Carrera S
Indisputable proof of the 991.1 Carrera S performance gains over its predecessor, the 997.2 Carrera S, is confirmed noting that the 911.1 Carrera S lapped the thirteen (13) mile Nürburgring’s Nordschleife Section fourteen (14) seconds faster than the earlier 997.2 model. Enough said.
More from Porsche Engineering Magazine on the 991.1, the January, 2012 edition, “The Carrera S with 3.8 liters displacement, was designed according to motor racing principles for high revs. The maximum engine speed of the six-cylinder engines has been increased to 7,800 rpm. The entire intake manifold has also been optimized. The intake air routes through flow-optimized channels, new multi-hole injectors inject the fuel more efficiently and exhaust emissions exit the 991.1 Carrera through a system with reduced back- pressure. The fine-tuning of the aero-dynamics has succeeded in reducing the total lift (CA) of the new 991.1 Carrera models by 0.02, to a mere 0.05.”
They also note “Even more agility in the 991.1 Carrera is provided by Porsche Torque Vectoring (PTV) standard on the Carrera S. This system consists of a mechanical limited-slip rear differential and variable torque distribution to the rear axle.”
Additionally, for the first time ever, “Porsche has used electro-mechanical power steering developed from scratch for the 991.1 Carrera. This also has a tangible effect on driving performance.”
Further, “Another decisive contribution to the impressive increased performance of the 991.1 Carrera is provided by the entirely newly developed, optional, Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC system able to exercise individual control over the hydraulic actuators (Formerly known as drop links: Italics mine.), depending on the driving situation, influencing self-steering behavior in the process and consequently improving vehicle stabilization.”
LIGHTWEIGHT CONSTRUCTIONS 991.1 Carrera S
Porsche Engineering Magazine, the January, 2012 edition, also reports, with the 991.1 Carrera and Carrera S, “Porsche sets new standards in lightweight construction. The key to success was lightweight construction throughout the vehicle. For the first time in the 991.1 Carrera, an aluminum-steel body construction has been used. The underlying idea of this design is using the right material in the right place. The extensive use of aluminum to reduce the vehicle’s weight is therefore balanced with elements of steel of varying degrees of strength for a more rigid body and optimum occupant protection. Parts that are especially important for passive safety, such as the inner roof frame and the B-pillar, have been made in ultra-high-strength, boron-alloyed steels. The new modular roof design also provides advantages in terms of weight. For the series model without a sliding roof, the steel outer skin of the roof has been replaced with significantly lighter aluminum.”
Further, “The drive train, chassis and electrical equipment have all also been comprehensively redesigned to be lighter.” As an example, “The newly constructed front axle with compact lightweight suspension strut.”
Also noting, “The basis of the sound design for the air intake and exhaust systems in the 991.1 Carrera was created in the very early stages of the vehicle’s design. The lay- out and dimensions of the manifolds, pipes, catalytic converters and mufflers were all visually illustrated and evaluated with the help of a computer model before there was even any hardware.”
Additionally, Porsche Engineering Magazine, in the January, 2012 edition reports, “The development of muffler systems is one of the core competencies at Porsche and is always carried out at the Weissach Development Center. In order to allow the driver to feel the revs and the power of the engine, the pathways of the air intake and mechanical engine sounds are tuned so that messages from the 911 to the driver are transmitted in as pure and unadulterated form as possible in all driving conditions.”
From Excellence Magazine, the “991 series introduced a “sound symposer” feature which pipes intake noise into the cabin during certain conditions. A tube is connected between the engine firewall and the intake pipe just downstream of the air filter box. Mounted in the tube is a special Helmholtz resonator chamber with a tuned rubber diaphragm inside. When a vacuum-operated switching valve is opened (via console-mounted “Sport” mode switch), intake noise is piped into the cabin, with the diaphragm amplifying the vibrations much as the human eardrum does. An additional Helmholtz resonator chamber is mounted on the 991 air filter box to amplify the intake noise between 4,500 and 6,000 RPM (a flap opens to allow airflow through this resonator.”
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,797
Likes: 870
Get what you want now if you can swing it. Seems like early 991.1 have more reported issues on the forum. No empirical data that I can reference but it seems like that. Keep that in mind. Repairs can be a bit pricey. Get it though.
Pro
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 581
Likes: 388
From: Chicago Burbs
having been a manager in the car business for decades, i can tell you positively/absolutely that this is the worst buyers market we have EVER seen. things are beginning to slowly loosen up, but it will take some time to stabilize. depending on point of reference, you'll be paying 10-20% more then you would have not too long ago. 10-20% higher isn't a huge number until you consider these are depreciating assets and should have gone LOWER/not higher.
i got my 991.1 C2S very close to the bottom, mid summer 2020. several factors contributed to the eventual crazy rise in prices. mostly covid related (directly or indirectly) along with a couple of other sidebars (stop sale didn't help for sure). but we are now very close to the peak (just past the peak imho). i won't call it a bubble because that implies a rapid lowering/collapse of prices. i see price's coming down slowly/gradually....even slower/more gradually for 991's.....but they certainly will eventually come down significantly.
buying now makes it very likely you'll get stuck holding the bag to the tune of 20%-ish or more imho.
now the good news.....what is enjoying a fantastic car for a year or two worth to you?? if your answer is anywhere close to 20% of it's value, go get yourself a nice 991 and have some fun!
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 134
Likes: 53
From: Dallas
Thank you to everyone.
Levy’s observations plus Jack’s comment on reliability have settled my mind.
I can absolutely afford the car now; but I think I’ll be disappointed and dissatisfied in the long run as the value of the car plummets.
Levy’s observations plus Jack’s comment on reliability have settled my mind.
I can absolutely afford the car now; but I think I’ll be disappointed and dissatisfied in the long run as the value of the car plummets.
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RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,096
Likes: 730
From: Palm Harbor Florida
I've only owned a couple Porsche sports cars; a 981S and my current 991.2, and I'd wait and get a 992.
Reason being, the 991.1 and .2 market is seriously drunk right now. To get a car with some modern, desirable features (back up camera, Car play) you are looking at a '17 at least, as far as I know (my '14 lacked a backup camera, and I would guess the .1's also? Not sure.) With regard to the .2 vs. .1, the turbo engine is an almost religious debate. An older .1 is going to have the fantastic NA engine, which sounds great revved up. The .2 is going to be newer with more bells and whistles, have the edge in terms of age and mileage (in general), comes with the T engine (more grunt down low) but more costly. So you'd pay both an arm and a leg at the top or near the top of the market to drive a 991. I mean holy cow just look at the 991 pricing thread for recent examples. The prices are nuts.
Plus, if you order or can find a 992 now, you'd get a car in the later years of production, with all the running changes Porsche's introduced along the way to address issues. The 992 is by all accounts faster, more capable and more feature packed than the 991.
Just my 0.02. If I won the lottery, I'd be ordering a new 992S+7MT quicker than you can say Abracadabra.
Reason being, the 991.1 and .2 market is seriously drunk right now. To get a car with some modern, desirable features (back up camera, Car play) you are looking at a '17 at least, as far as I know (my '14 lacked a backup camera, and I would guess the .1's also? Not sure.) With regard to the .2 vs. .1, the turbo engine is an almost religious debate. An older .1 is going to have the fantastic NA engine, which sounds great revved up. The .2 is going to be newer with more bells and whistles, have the edge in terms of age and mileage (in general), comes with the T engine (more grunt down low) but more costly. So you'd pay both an arm and a leg at the top or near the top of the market to drive a 991. I mean holy cow just look at the 991 pricing thread for recent examples. The prices are nuts.
Plus, if you order or can find a 992 now, you'd get a car in the later years of production, with all the running changes Porsche's introduced along the way to address issues. The 992 is by all accounts faster, more capable and more feature packed than the 991.
Just my 0.02. If I won the lottery, I'd be ordering a new 992S+7MT quicker than you can say Abracadabra.
Last edited by Rich_Jenkins; Oct 30, 2021 at 05:48 PM.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 423
Likes: 397
From: Rochester NY
the debate goes on and on…..I was a bit of a rookie when chasing down mine. I wanted a cab with PDK and nicely optioned and wanted the .2. I wanted the better tech and friend of mine had one and fell in love with it. Anyway I also liked the analog gauges this was the last model with those and thought that was a big deal
all that said found the car and am still SMILING everyday! It has been said so many times…just find one and start driving have put 10k miles on it this summer couple of road trips and continual drives
Good luck!
all that said found the car and am still SMILING everyday! It has been said so many times…just find one and start driving have put 10k miles on it this summer couple of road trips and continual drives
Good luck!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 925
Likes: 656
From: GA, FL, EZE
I've only owned a couple Porsche sports cars; a 981S and my current 991.2, and I'd wait and get a 992.
Reason being, the 991.1 and .2 market is seriously drunk right now. To get a car with some modern, desirable features (back up camera, Car play) you are looking at a '17 at least, as far as I know (my '14 lacked a backup camera, and I would guess the .1's also? Not sure.) With regard to the .2 vs. .1, the turbo engine is an almost religious debate. An older .1 is going to have the fantastic NA engine, which sounds great revved up. The .2 is going to be newer with more bells and whistles, have the edge in terms of age and mileage (in general), comes with the T engine (more grunt down low) but more costly. So you'd pay both an arm and a leg at the top or near the top of the market to drive a 991. I mean holy cow just look at the 991 pricing thread for recent examples. The prices are nuts.
Plus, if you order or can find a 992 now, you'd get a car in the later years of production, with all the running changes Porsche's introduced along the way to address issues. The 992 is by all accounts faster, more capable and more feature packed than the 991.
Just my 0.02. If I won the lottery, I'd be ordering a new 992S+7MT quicker than you can say Abracadabra.
Reason being, the 991.1 and .2 market is seriously drunk right now. To get a car with some modern, desirable features (back up camera, Car play) you are looking at a '17 at least, as far as I know (my '14 lacked a backup camera, and I would guess the .1's also? Not sure.) With regard to the .2 vs. .1, the turbo engine is an almost religious debate. An older .1 is going to have the fantastic NA engine, which sounds great revved up. The .2 is going to be newer with more bells and whistles, have the edge in terms of age and mileage (in general), comes with the T engine (more grunt down low) but more costly. So you'd pay both an arm and a leg at the top or near the top of the market to drive a 991. I mean holy cow just look at the 991 pricing thread for recent examples. The prices are nuts.
Plus, if you order or can find a 992 now, you'd get a car in the later years of production, with all the running changes Porsche's introduced along the way to address issues. The 992 is by all accounts faster, more capable and more feature packed than the 991.
Just my 0.02. If I won the lottery, I'd be ordering a new 992S+7MT quicker than you can say Abracadabra.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 331
Likes: 159
From: Odessa, FL
I have a 991.1 and I love that car. I could care less about carplay or a camera. Let me hear that engine roar. I drove mine today and it was pure joy.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 298
Likes: 229
From: Reading, PA
I spent months looking for what i considered the perfect build. Then i realized any one of these cars would put a HUGE grin on my face. Said screw it and bought one. Haven't looked back.
The new england roadtrip, the sunday drives, the random afternoon i blow off from work to beat the car on the back roads - all of these moments are priceless and not once while accelerating, braking, or leaning hard thru a corner did i ever think, wow, i should have gotten something different.
Go.
Now.
Buy one.
Any one.
And start enjoying it immediately.
The new england roadtrip, the sunday drives, the random afternoon i blow off from work to beat the car on the back roads - all of these moments are priceless and not once while accelerating, braking, or leaning hard thru a corner did i ever think, wow, i should have gotten something different.
Go.
Now.
Buy one.
Any one.
And start enjoying it immediately.
Last edited by awittig; Oct 30, 2021 at 08:42 PM.
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 30
Likes: 15
From: Philadelphia, PA
I traded in my 2017 BMW M4 Competition that had HUD, carplay, backup camera, and heated steering wheel, for a 2014 991.1 C2S that has none of that. I love driving this car much more. I've put 2200 miles on in two months and I work from home. I saw it listed at a local Mitsubishi dealer and it was listed about $10K below market value and I pulled the trigger and bought it.
My buddy says some people have been waiting 20 years for the prices to drop and they haven't. As awittig said, you gotta just do it.
My buddy says some people have been waiting 20 years for the prices to drop and they haven't. As awittig said, you gotta just do it.
Last edited by PHLY991; Oct 30, 2021 at 08:48 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 763
Likes: 311
From: Zzz
No disrespect to Jack but I haven’t seen any evidence that the early models had more issues. That seems pulled out of thin air. Plenty of later models with the same issues (changeover valves, door panel delamination, etc). I think the .2 waterpump saga would be more of an issue TBH.
NF
NF
