991.2 Technically Superior to the 991.1?
07-17-2021, 11:41 AM
#16
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
one would hope.
07-18-2021, 06:25 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Article (Maybe) Loooog, Oh so long!!!
Does the 991.2 Possess Significant Technical Advantages on the Track Compared to the 991.1?
Of course it does, why wouldn’t it? Succeeding Porsche models are always superior to their predecessors, but by how much was my question? And would these advantages provide a significant benefit on the track? Historically, within most DE/TT clubs, Porsche models tend to run within their model groups, 911 SC cars compete with their brethren, 84 to 89 Carrera cars run together, 964 most likely run with 993 cars, both with 3.6 motors, 996 run with 996, 997 with 997, that is until we get to the 991.1 VS 991.2. True, both cars are 991 models, one is port injected 3.4 to 3,8 liter car, NA car, the other 3.0 powered twin turbo assisted. Should they run together in the same class? From the research I have done, the performance delta between these cars seems substantial enough that they should compete in separate classes. But that’s my read.
However, the extinct class assignment model of running model with model concept goes out the window when omnipresent GCR assigned performance classes are based on weight to HP for base points, and not all options are assigned incremental points, in spite of their advantages being significant. This is the present state of things with PCA Zone 8’s GCRs., and other club’s GCRs as well.
As I describe below, I found myself competing with my 2013 991.1 Carrera S in a Time Trial with a 2017 991.2 base Carrera, and to my surprise, that car was quicker than mine. I had 400HP to his 370HP, and I had significantly more experience at Willow Springs than my 991.2 competitor. How could this happen? So all that follows was precipitated by this incident. Irrespective of technical, it was easy to rationalize why I was slower being that this was my first outing with the 991.1 and I not willing to take any chances to pick up 1.5 seconds.
But first a little background information. I have owned a lightly optioned 2013 991.1 Carrera S for some months now, having PDK, Sport Exhaust as its only performance options. It does have sun roof delete and I did upgrade to the 991.1 Sport Steering wheel with paddle shifters.
At the time of my search for a 991.1, did I want a fully optioned car with PDK, Sport Chrono, Sport PASM, etc. Yes, who wouldn’t? But I also felt the need to acquire the car with a full two (2) year CPO warranty, only available in its full two (2) year term from a Porsche dealer, or pro-rated were I were to buy the car from a private party. Buying from a private dealer was not an option as the CPO Warranty is voided if the car is acquired in this manner.
Further limiting my options was the PCNA Sport Chrono Stop Sell edict. This meant that if I wanted the full two (2) year CPO warranty, I’d be limited to a non-Sport Chrono car. I had Sport Chrono on my 2015 Cayman GTS. Admittedly the Sport+ mode was a hair raiser on the track, but for me, ill-advised going to redline in the first 6 gears on the street is not my style. So as a result, I decided that I could live without Sport Chrono. That narrowed the field of possibilities considerably. Rarely will you find a non-Sport Chrono car with Sport PASM. This led me to construct a short list of must have options: PDK, Sport Exhaust, any color but Black, additional options would be “gravy”.
So the search began in March of 2021….pickings were slim, but I did find a 2013 991.1 Carrera S CPO, clean Carfax, having PDK, Sport Exhaust, sunroof delete, “additional engine cooling for cars in hot climate” option, sport seats and clear tail lights. Considering the frenetic state of the used Porsche market last Spring, and on-going to the present, I ordered the car and had it shipped to CA from Naples, FL, sight unseen. Two (2) weeks later, the car arrived, better looking than what I has seen in the pics supplied by the dealer. (Pic above.)
In my eyes, this car was beautiful, long, low and sleek, with 20” wheels, tinted windows and the Agate Gray Metallic paint was in great shape for a FL car with 35,000 miles. The only thing I didn’t like was the steering wheel shifting buttons, in contrast to what I was used to, shifting paddles. Coming from a 2015 Cayman GTS with paddle shifters, I just couldn’t get used to the feel and utility of the original shifter buttons that came on the car. In contrast, shifter paddles are so simple, left side, pull for down shift, right side, pull for upshift, both in simultaneously for Neutral. Luckily, I found a 991.1 Sport Steering locally, and had my Porsche dealer install it (Installation required a PIWIS), about $2,000 for the wheel and installation, when all was said and done. I sold the original air bag and recovered about $300. As most will admit, Porsche cars are built with the track in mind, so what choice did I have but to take the car to the track (Willow Springs) in early June of this year? What an incredible experience driving in the PDK Sport Mode, the car drove as if on rails. Yes, the Nanny buttons were in street mode. I wasn’t taking any chances the first time out. I didn’t want to push it too hard and my times reflected this, a 1:36.XX.
My speedy “Pit Neighbor” drove a 991.2 base Carrera, 3.0, 370 HP, equipped with PDK, having the Sport Chrono package, confirmed as he mentioned having dynamic engine mounts, a feature unique to Sport Chrono. For whatever reason(s), he was, at least 1.5 seconds quicker than me, turning a 1:34…I rationalized his success, he was a good driver, but were the performance options on his 991.2, unavailable to me for all the reasons mentioned above, the deciding factor? This stimulated my thought processes, specifically, how exactly was the 991.2 Carrera superior technically to my 991.1 Carrera S car? And if so, I wondered why we were running in the same PCA Zone 8 class of CC 12? So I did a little digging as you will see below, and quite frankly I was astounded when I realized the performance benefits possessed by the 991.2 VS the 991.1 as a result of Sport Chrono PDK and Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC). And as a side note, PCA Zone 8 at the present time, assigns no extra performance points for cars with Sport Chrono and PDDC.
First thing, is there a weight to HP advantage for the 991.2 Carrera over the 991.1 Carrera S?
· 991.1 Carrera S, average weight of 3,224/400 HP = Wt./Hp. of 8.06.
991.2 Carrera, average weight of 3,190/370 HP = Wt./Hp. of 8.62. It’s a push., however the story changes when the 991.2 Carrera S is put into the equation, with 420 HP resulting in a Wt./Hp. of 7.59. That is definitely a performance advantage. To get my 991.1 Carrera S to a similar Wt./Hp. ratio, it would have to lose about 200 Lbs., not an option.
So as we see, there is no evidence the 370 HP 991.2 Carrera (Excluding the Carrera S) has a Wt. /HP. advantage over my 991.1. So then it could only be:
· Better driver,
· Better tires,
· Technical advantages provided by Sports Chrono and PDCC, I began to think, maybe I am on to something significant here.
Having no historical metrics as to the skill of the driver, and unfamiliar with the specific tires; all I knew for certain is that Hoosiers, they were not. So being a curious individual, I began searching for Porsche Corporate aka PAG documented technical advantages of the 991.2 over the 991.1? Are they significant? They clearly are as seen below, monumental in my opinion.
Technical Advantage #1: 991.2 Sport Chrono Package Contains Model Specific Unique Features when compared to 991.1 Sport Chrono Package. Exclusive to 991.2, PAG confirms Sport Chrono Package with Mode Switch was optional on the 2016 – 2019 991.2 Carrera S cars. They state, “What’s new is the mode switch on the steering wheel, derived from the 918 Spyder to make you feel closer to the racetrack. Without your hand leaving the steering wheel, you can choose any of four settings: Normal, SPORT, SPORT PLUS and Individual. Now you can adapt the vehicle even more to the way you want to drive.”
PAG adds, “In combination with PDK, the Sport Chrono Package on the 991.2 has a feature unique to its Sport Chrono Package, the motorsport-derived gearshift strategy. In this mode, PDK is geared up for extremely short shift times and optimum shift points for the maximum acceleration available. This combination of uncompromising and involving performance is ideal for the racetrack.” And then there is the – SPORT Response – function integrated into the Sport Chrono option package. From PAG, “Pressing the button in the centre of the mode switch primes the engine and transmission for the fastest possible unleashing of power. In other words, maximum responsiveness – for a period of approximately 20 seconds. A timer graphic in the instrument cluster tells you how long is left “ This feature is simply mind boggling…just imagine a car so equipped at the exit of Turn 9 at Willow Springs, press that button, and whoosh, gone. I have seen this personally as described below.
As we see in www.flatsixes.com, “The little button in the middle of the mode switch is the Porsche Sport Response Button (PSRB), and it makes you a driving God for 20 seconds. All it takes is a little press of the button. Porsche has revealed how it works: When you press the PSRB button, the drivetrain is set up for maximum acceleration for a time period of 20 seconds. The PDK gearbox will automatically select the right gear for accelerating, and the turbochargers are allowed to overboost. Porsche makes no claims on horsepower or torque increases during the overboost period, but the car certainly feels faster in the ‘seat-of-the-pants’ sense. We had a chance to test the button out when passing slower traffic, and it works wonders. Kick down a few gears, boost the power, and you’re instantly past what was formerly a rolling roadblock.”
Technical Advantage #2: 991.2 can be optioned with a superior Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC), compared to the 991.1, mainly as a result of being packaged with rear axle steering, as described below. From PAG, “PDCC – optional for all 991.2 S models in conjunction with rear-axle steering – is an active anti-roll system that suppresses lateral body movement during cornering manoeuvres. In addition, it minimises the lateral instability of the vehicle on uneven ground. The results are improved dynamic performance, even more neutral handling and increased ride comfort – whatever the speed. In simple terms, the tyres and vehicle hold the road better and you can steer through corners faster and in a more relaxed manner. Which is why PDCC sets standards for driving performance, ride comfort – and driving pleasure.”
My Conclusion: From what I have discovered with some basic research, the 991.2 is significantly technically superior to the 991.1, as you would expect, for at least the following reasons:
· 991.2 Upgraded Sport Chrono with the Sport Response button, providing up to 20 seconds of controlled mayhem,
· Upgraded PDDC option on the 991.2 with rear axle steering,
· Having a turbo engine, the 991.2 and beyond: The engines can more readily and cheaply be modified for more power with an undetectable electronic tune.
Do the above upgrades make me want to sell my 991.1 and get a 991.2, or perhaps 992? That simply is not the case. I love my 991.1 and it loves me (I hope!), and I am so far from tapping its potential, being nowhere near the 100% mark. And when a 991.2 blows by me on a straight, Carrera or Carrera S, I can surmise it will be due primarily to three (3) variables, or a combination thereof:
1. The 991.2 has a better driver in the seat,
2. The PDDC is facilitating a better exit out of the corners on to the straights,
3. That Sport Response button with the turbo over-boost is doing its job, creating mayhem!
And as far as track driving goes, as we heard Clint Eastwood say in the closing lines of Magnum Force, “A man has got to know his limitations.” And I would take the liberty to add, once you know them, do whatever is necessary to address them, be all that you can be.
If you got this far, congrats....
Of course it does, why wouldn’t it? Succeeding Porsche models are always superior to their predecessors, but by how much was my question? And would these advantages provide a significant benefit on the track? Historically, within most DE/TT clubs, Porsche models tend to run within their model groups, 911 SC cars compete with their brethren, 84 to 89 Carrera cars run together, 964 most likely run with 993 cars, both with 3.6 motors, 996 run with 996, 997 with 997, that is until we get to the 991.1 VS 991.2. True, both cars are 991 models, one is port injected 3.4 to 3,8 liter car, NA car, the other 3.0 powered twin turbo assisted. Should they run together in the same class? From the research I have done, the performance delta between these cars seems substantial enough that they should compete in separate classes. But that’s my read.
However, the extinct class assignment model of running model with model concept goes out the window when omnipresent GCR assigned performance classes are based on weight to HP for base points, and not all options are assigned incremental points, in spite of their advantages being significant. This is the present state of things with PCA Zone 8’s GCRs., and other club’s GCRs as well.
As I describe below, I found myself competing with my 2013 991.1 Carrera S in a Time Trial with a 2017 991.2 base Carrera, and to my surprise, that car was quicker than mine. I had 400HP to his 370HP, and I had significantly more experience at Willow Springs than my 991.2 competitor. How could this happen? So all that follows was precipitated by this incident. Irrespective of technical, it was easy to rationalize why I was slower being that this was my first outing with the 991.1 and I not willing to take any chances to pick up 1.5 seconds.
But first a little background information. I have owned a lightly optioned 2013 991.1 Carrera S for some months now, having PDK, Sport Exhaust as its only performance options. It does have sun roof delete and I did upgrade to the 991.1 Sport Steering wheel with paddle shifters.
At the time of my search for a 991.1, did I want a fully optioned car with PDK, Sport Chrono, Sport PASM, etc. Yes, who wouldn’t? But I also felt the need to acquire the car with a full two (2) year CPO warranty, only available in its full two (2) year term from a Porsche dealer, or pro-rated were I were to buy the car from a private party. Buying from a private dealer was not an option as the CPO Warranty is voided if the car is acquired in this manner.
Further limiting my options was the PCNA Sport Chrono Stop Sell edict. This meant that if I wanted the full two (2) year CPO warranty, I’d be limited to a non-Sport Chrono car. I had Sport Chrono on my 2015 Cayman GTS. Admittedly the Sport+ mode was a hair raiser on the track, but for me, ill-advised going to redline in the first 6 gears on the street is not my style. So as a result, I decided that I could live without Sport Chrono. That narrowed the field of possibilities considerably. Rarely will you find a non-Sport Chrono car with Sport PASM. This led me to construct a short list of must have options: PDK, Sport Exhaust, any color but Black, additional options would be “gravy”.
So the search began in March of 2021….pickings were slim, but I did find a 2013 991.1 Carrera S CPO, clean Carfax, having PDK, Sport Exhaust, sunroof delete, “additional engine cooling for cars in hot climate” option, sport seats and clear tail lights. Considering the frenetic state of the used Porsche market last Spring, and on-going to the present, I ordered the car and had it shipped to CA from Naples, FL, sight unseen. Two (2) weeks later, the car arrived, better looking than what I has seen in the pics supplied by the dealer. (Pic above.)
In my eyes, this car was beautiful, long, low and sleek, with 20” wheels, tinted windows and the Agate Gray Metallic paint was in great shape for a FL car with 35,000 miles. The only thing I didn’t like was the steering wheel shifting buttons, in contrast to what I was used to, shifting paddles. Coming from a 2015 Cayman GTS with paddle shifters, I just couldn’t get used to the feel and utility of the original shifter buttons that came on the car. In contrast, shifter paddles are so simple, left side, pull for down shift, right side, pull for upshift, both in simultaneously for Neutral. Luckily, I found a 991.1 Sport Steering locally, and had my Porsche dealer install it (Installation required a PIWIS), about $2,000 for the wheel and installation, when all was said and done. I sold the original air bag and recovered about $300. As most will admit, Porsche cars are built with the track in mind, so what choice did I have but to take the car to the track (Willow Springs) in early June of this year? What an incredible experience driving in the PDK Sport Mode, the car drove as if on rails. Yes, the Nanny buttons were in street mode. I wasn’t taking any chances the first time out. I didn’t want to push it too hard and my times reflected this, a 1:36.XX.
My speedy “Pit Neighbor” drove a 991.2 base Carrera, 3.0, 370 HP, equipped with PDK, having the Sport Chrono package, confirmed as he mentioned having dynamic engine mounts, a feature unique to Sport Chrono. For whatever reason(s), he was, at least 1.5 seconds quicker than me, turning a 1:34…I rationalized his success, he was a good driver, but were the performance options on his 991.2, unavailable to me for all the reasons mentioned above, the deciding factor? This stimulated my thought processes, specifically, how exactly was the 991.2 Carrera superior technically to my 991.1 Carrera S car? And if so, I wondered why we were running in the same PCA Zone 8 class of CC 12? So I did a little digging as you will see below, and quite frankly I was astounded when I realized the performance benefits possessed by the 991.2 VS the 991.1 as a result of Sport Chrono PDK and Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC). And as a side note, PCA Zone 8 at the present time, assigns no extra performance points for cars with Sport Chrono and PDDC.
First thing, is there a weight to HP advantage for the 991.2 Carrera over the 991.1 Carrera S?
· 991.1 Carrera S, average weight of 3,224/400 HP = Wt./Hp. of 8.06.
991.2 Carrera, average weight of 3,190/370 HP = Wt./Hp. of 8.62. It’s a push., however the story changes when the 991.2 Carrera S is put into the equation, with 420 HP resulting in a Wt./Hp. of 7.59. That is definitely a performance advantage. To get my 991.1 Carrera S to a similar Wt./Hp. ratio, it would have to lose about 200 Lbs., not an option.
So as we see, there is no evidence the 370 HP 991.2 Carrera (Excluding the Carrera S) has a Wt. /HP. advantage over my 991.1. So then it could only be:
· Better driver,
· Better tires,
· Technical advantages provided by Sports Chrono and PDCC, I began to think, maybe I am on to something significant here.
Having no historical metrics as to the skill of the driver, and unfamiliar with the specific tires; all I knew for certain is that Hoosiers, they were not. So being a curious individual, I began searching for Porsche Corporate aka PAG documented technical advantages of the 991.2 over the 991.1? Are they significant? They clearly are as seen below, monumental in my opinion.
Technical Advantage #1: 991.2 Sport Chrono Package Contains Model Specific Unique Features when compared to 991.1 Sport Chrono Package. Exclusive to 991.2, PAG confirms Sport Chrono Package with Mode Switch was optional on the 2016 – 2019 991.2 Carrera S cars. They state, “What’s new is the mode switch on the steering wheel, derived from the 918 Spyder to make you feel closer to the racetrack. Without your hand leaving the steering wheel, you can choose any of four settings: Normal, SPORT, SPORT PLUS and Individual. Now you can adapt the vehicle even more to the way you want to drive.”
PAG adds, “In combination with PDK, the Sport Chrono Package on the 991.2 has a feature unique to its Sport Chrono Package, the motorsport-derived gearshift strategy. In this mode, PDK is geared up for extremely short shift times and optimum shift points for the maximum acceleration available. This combination of uncompromising and involving performance is ideal for the racetrack.” And then there is the – SPORT Response – function integrated into the Sport Chrono option package. From PAG, “Pressing the button in the centre of the mode switch primes the engine and transmission for the fastest possible unleashing of power. In other words, maximum responsiveness – for a period of approximately 20 seconds. A timer graphic in the instrument cluster tells you how long is left “ This feature is simply mind boggling…just imagine a car so equipped at the exit of Turn 9 at Willow Springs, press that button, and whoosh, gone. I have seen this personally as described below.
As we see in www.flatsixes.com, “The little button in the middle of the mode switch is the Porsche Sport Response Button (PSRB), and it makes you a driving God for 20 seconds. All it takes is a little press of the button. Porsche has revealed how it works: When you press the PSRB button, the drivetrain is set up for maximum acceleration for a time period of 20 seconds. The PDK gearbox will automatically select the right gear for accelerating, and the turbochargers are allowed to overboost. Porsche makes no claims on horsepower or torque increases during the overboost period, but the car certainly feels faster in the ‘seat-of-the-pants’ sense. We had a chance to test the button out when passing slower traffic, and it works wonders. Kick down a few gears, boost the power, and you’re instantly past what was formerly a rolling roadblock.”
Technical Advantage #2: 991.2 can be optioned with a superior Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC), compared to the 991.1, mainly as a result of being packaged with rear axle steering, as described below. From PAG, “PDCC – optional for all 991.2 S models in conjunction with rear-axle steering – is an active anti-roll system that suppresses lateral body movement during cornering manoeuvres. In addition, it minimises the lateral instability of the vehicle on uneven ground. The results are improved dynamic performance, even more neutral handling and increased ride comfort – whatever the speed. In simple terms, the tyres and vehicle hold the road better and you can steer through corners faster and in a more relaxed manner. Which is why PDCC sets standards for driving performance, ride comfort – and driving pleasure.”
My Conclusion: From what I have discovered with some basic research, the 991.2 is significantly technically superior to the 991.1, as you would expect, for at least the following reasons:
· 991.2 Upgraded Sport Chrono with the Sport Response button, providing up to 20 seconds of controlled mayhem,
· Upgraded PDDC option on the 991.2 with rear axle steering,
· Having a turbo engine, the 991.2 and beyond: The engines can more readily and cheaply be modified for more power with an undetectable electronic tune.
Do the above upgrades make me want to sell my 991.1 and get a 991.2, or perhaps 992? That simply is not the case. I love my 991.1 and it loves me (I hope!), and I am so far from tapping its potential, being nowhere near the 100% mark. And when a 991.2 blows by me on a straight, Carrera or Carrera S, I can surmise it will be due primarily to three (3) variables, or a combination thereof:
1. The 991.2 has a better driver in the seat,
2. The PDDC is facilitating a better exit out of the corners on to the straights,
3. That Sport Response button with the turbo over-boost is doing its job, creating mayhem!
And as far as track driving goes, as we heard Clint Eastwood say in the closing lines of Magnum Force, “A man has got to know his limitations.” And I would take the liberty to add, once you know them, do whatever is necessary to address them, be all that you can be.
If you got this far, congrats....
Last edited by Martin S.; 07-18-2021 at 06:31 PM.
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desmotesta (12-08-2021)
07-18-2021, 07:29 PM
#19
Burning Brakes
Does the 991.2 Possess Significant Technical Advantages on the Track Compared to the 991.1?
Of course it does, why wouldn’t it? Succeeding Porsche models are always superior to their predecessors, but by how much was my question? And would these advantages provide a significant benefit on the track? Historically, within most DE/TT clubs, Porsche models tend to run within their model groups, 911 SC cars compete with their brethren, 84 to 89 Carrera cars run together, 964 most likely run with 993 cars, both with 3.6 motors, 996 run with 996, 997 with 997, that is until we get to the 991.1 VS 991.2. True, both cars are 991 models, one is port injected 3.4 to 3,8 liter car, NA car, the other 3.0 powered twin turbo assisted. Should they run together in the same class? From the research I have done, the performance delta between these cars seems substantial enough that they should compete in separate classes. But that’s my read.
However, the extinct class assignment model of running model with model concept goes out the window when omnipresent GCR assigned performance classes are based on weight to HP for base points, and not all options are assigned incremental points, in spite of their advantages being significant. This is the present state of things with PCA Zone 8’s GCRs., and other club’s GCRs as well.
As I describe below, I found myself competing with my 2013 991.1 Carrera S in a Time Trial with a 2017 991.2 base Carrera, and to my surprise, that car was quicker than mine. I had 400HP to his 370HP, and I had significantly more experience at Willow Springs than my 991.2 competitor. How could this happen? So all that follows was precipitated by this incident. Irrespective of technical, it was easy to rationalize why I was slower being that this was my first outing with the 991.1 and I not willing to take any chances to pick up 1.5 seconds.
But first a little background information. I have owned a lightly optioned 2013 991.1 Carrera S for some months now, having PDK, Sport Exhaust as its only performance options. It does have sun roof delete and I did upgrade to the 991.1 Sport Steering wheel with paddle shifters.
At the time of my search for a 991.1, did I want a fully optioned car with PDK, Sport Chrono, Sport PASM, etc. Yes, who wouldn’t? But I also felt the need to acquire the car with a full two (2) year CPO warranty, only available in its full two (2) year term from a Porsche dealer, or pro-rated were I were to buy the car from a private party. Buying from a private dealer was not an option as the CPO Warranty is voided if the car is acquired in this manner.
Further limiting my options was the PCNA Sport Chrono Stop Sell edict. This meant that if I wanted the full two (2) year CPO warranty, I’d be limited to a non-Sport Chrono car. I had Sport Chrono on my 2015 Cayman GTS. Admittedly the Sport+ mode was a hair raiser on the track, but for me, ill-advised going to redline in the first 6 gears on the street is not my style. So as a result, I decided that I could live without Sport Chrono. That narrowed the field of possibilities considerably. Rarely will you find a non-Sport Chrono car with Sport PASM. This led me to construct a short list of must have options: PDK, Sport Exhaust, any color but Black, additional options would be “gravy”.
So the search began in March of 2021….pickings were slim, but I did find a 2013 991.1 Carrera S CPO, clean Carfax, having PDK, Sport Exhaust, sunroof delete, “additional engine cooling for cars in hot climate” option, sport seats and clear tail lights. Considering the frenetic state of the used Porsche market last Spring, and on-going to the present, I ordered the car and had it shipped to CA from Naples, FL, sight unseen. Two (2) weeks later, the car arrived, better looking than what I has seen in the pics supplied by the dealer. (Pic above.)
In my eyes, this car was beautiful, long, low and sleek, with 20” wheels, tinted windows and the Agate Gray Metallic paint was in great shape for a FL car with 35,000 miles. The only thing I didn’t like was the steering wheel shifting buttons, in contrast to what I was used to, shifting paddles. Coming from a 2015 Cayman GTS with paddle shifters, I just couldn’t get used to the feel and utility of the original shifter buttons that came on the car. In contrast, shifter paddles are so simple, left side, pull for down shift, right side, pull for upshift, both in simultaneously for Neutral. Luckily, I found a 991.1 Sport Steering locally, and had my Porsche dealer install it (Installation required a PIWIS), about $2,000 for the wheel and installation, when all was said and done. I sold the original air bag and recovered about $300. As most will admit, Porsche cars are built with the track in mind, so what choice did I have but to take the car to the track (Willow Springs) in early June of this year? What an incredible experience driving in the PDK Sport Mode, the car drove as if on rails. Yes, the Nanny buttons were in street mode. I wasn’t taking any chances the first time out. I didn’t want to push it too hard and my times reflected this, a 1:36.XX.
My speedy “Pit Neighbor” drove a 991.2 base Carrera, 3.0, 370 HP, equipped with PDK, having the Sport Chrono package, confirmed as he mentioned having dynamic engine mounts, a feature unique to Sport Chrono. For whatever reason(s), he was, at least 1.5 seconds quicker than me, turning a 1:34…I rationalized his success, he was a good driver, but were the performance options on his 991.2, unavailable to me for all the reasons mentioned above, the deciding factor? This stimulated my thought processes, specifically, how exactly was the 991.2 Carrera superior technically to my 991.1 Carrera S car? And if so, I wondered why we were running in the same PCA Zone 8 class of CC 12? So I did a little digging as you will see below, and quite frankly I was astounded when I realized the performance benefits possessed by the 991.2 VS the 991.1 as a result of Sport Chrono PDK and Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC). And as a side note, PCA Zone 8 at the present time, assigns no extra performance points for cars with Sport Chrono and PDDC.
First thing, is there a weight to HP advantage for the 991.2 Carrera over the 991.1 Carrera S?
· 991.1 Carrera S, average weight of 3,224/400 HP = Wt./Hp. of 8.06.
991.2 Carrera, average weight of 3,190/370 HP = Wt./Hp. of 8.62. It’s a push., however the story changes when the 991.2 Carrera S is put into the equation, with 420 HP resulting in a Wt./Hp. of 7.59. That is definitely a performance advantage. To get my 991.1 Carrera S to a similar Wt./Hp. ratio, it would have to lose about 200 Lbs., not an option.
So as we see, there is no evidence the 370 HP 991.2 Carrera (Excluding the Carrera S) has a Wt. /HP. advantage over my 991.1. So then it could only be:
· Better driver,
· Better tires,
· Technical advantages provided by Sports Chrono and PDCC, I began to think, maybe I am on to something significant here.
Having no historical metrics as to the skill of the driver, and unfamiliar with the specific tires; all I knew for certain is that Hoosiers, they were not. So being a curious individual, I began searching for Porsche Corporate aka PAG documented technical advantages of the 991.2 over the 991.1? Are they significant? They clearly are as seen below, monumental in my opinion.
Technical Advantage #1: 991.2 Sport Chrono Package Contains Model Specific Unique Features when compared to 991.1 Sport Chrono Package. Exclusive to 991.2, PAG confirms Sport Chrono Package with Mode Switch was optional on the 2016 – 2019 991.2 Carrera S cars. They state, “What’s new is the mode switch on the steering wheel, derived from the 918 Spyder to make you feel closer to the racetrack. Without your hand leaving the steering wheel, you can choose any of four settings: Normal, SPORT, SPORT PLUS and Individual. Now you can adapt the vehicle even more to the way you want to drive.”
PAG adds, “In combination with PDK, the Sport Chrono Package on the 991.2 has a feature unique to its Sport Chrono Package, the motorsport-derived gearshift strategy. In this mode, PDK is geared up for extremely short shift times and optimum shift points for the maximum acceleration available. This combination of uncompromising and involving performance is ideal for the racetrack.” And then there is the – SPORT Response – function integrated into the Sport Chrono option package. From PAG, “Pressing the button in the centre of the mode switch primes the engine and transmission for the fastest possible unleashing of power. In other words, maximum responsiveness – for a period of approximately 20 seconds. A timer graphic in the instrument cluster tells you how long is left “ This feature is simply mind boggling…just imagine a car so equipped at the exit of Turn 9 at Willow Springs, press that button, and whoosh, gone. I have seen this personally as described below.
As we see in www.flatsixes.com, “The little button in the middle of the mode switch is the Porsche Sport Response Button (PSRB), and it makes you a driving God for 20 seconds. All it takes is a little press of the button. Porsche has revealed how it works: When you press the PSRB button, the drivetrain is set up for maximum acceleration for a time period of 20 seconds. The PDK gearbox will automatically select the right gear for accelerating, and the turbochargers are allowed to overboost. Porsche makes no claims on horsepower or torque increases during the overboost period, but the car certainly feels faster in the ‘seat-of-the-pants’ sense. We had a chance to test the button out when passing slower traffic, and it works wonders. Kick down a few gears, boost the power, and you’re instantly past what was formerly a rolling roadblock.”
Technical Advantage #2: 991.2 can be optioned with a superior Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC), compared to the 991.1, mainly as a result of being packaged with rear axle steering, as described below. From PAG, “PDCC – optional for all 991.2 S models in conjunction with rear-axle steering – is an active anti-roll system that suppresses lateral body movement during cornering manoeuvres. In addition, it minimises the lateral instability of the vehicle on uneven ground. The results are improved dynamic performance, even more neutral handling and increased ride comfort – whatever the speed. In simple terms, the tyres and vehicle hold the road better and you can steer through corners faster and in a more relaxed manner. Which is why PDCC sets standards for driving performance, ride comfort – and driving pleasure.”
My Conclusion: From what I have discovered with some basic research, the 991.2 is significantly technically superior to the 991.1, as you would expect, for at least the following reasons:
· 991.2 Upgraded Sport Chrono with the Sport Response button, providing up to 20 seconds of controlled mayhem,
· Upgraded PDDC option on the 991.2 with rear axle steering,
· Having a turbo engine, the 991.2 and beyond: The engines can more readily and cheaply be modified for more power with an undetectable electronic tune.
Do the above upgrades make me want to sell my 991.1 and get a 991.2, or perhaps 992? That simply is not the case. I love my 991.1 and it loves me (I hope!), and I am so far from tapping its potential, being nowhere near the 100% mark. And when a 991.2 blows by me on a straight, Carrera or Carrera S, I can surmise it will be due primarily to three (3) variables, or a combination thereof:
1. The 991.2 has a better driver in the seat,
2. The PDDC is facilitating a better exit out of the corners on to the straights,
3. That Sport Response button with the turbo over-boost is doing its job, creating mayhem!
And as far as track driving goes, as we heard Clint Eastwood say in the closing lines of Magnum Force, “A man has got to know his limitations.” And I would take the liberty to add, once you know them, do whatever is necessary to address them, be all that you can be.
If you got this far, congrats....
Of course it does, why wouldn’t it? Succeeding Porsche models are always superior to their predecessors, but by how much was my question? And would these advantages provide a significant benefit on the track? Historically, within most DE/TT clubs, Porsche models tend to run within their model groups, 911 SC cars compete with their brethren, 84 to 89 Carrera cars run together, 964 most likely run with 993 cars, both with 3.6 motors, 996 run with 996, 997 with 997, that is until we get to the 991.1 VS 991.2. True, both cars are 991 models, one is port injected 3.4 to 3,8 liter car, NA car, the other 3.0 powered twin turbo assisted. Should they run together in the same class? From the research I have done, the performance delta between these cars seems substantial enough that they should compete in separate classes. But that’s my read.
However, the extinct class assignment model of running model with model concept goes out the window when omnipresent GCR assigned performance classes are based on weight to HP for base points, and not all options are assigned incremental points, in spite of their advantages being significant. This is the present state of things with PCA Zone 8’s GCRs., and other club’s GCRs as well.
As I describe below, I found myself competing with my 2013 991.1 Carrera S in a Time Trial with a 2017 991.2 base Carrera, and to my surprise, that car was quicker than mine. I had 400HP to his 370HP, and I had significantly more experience at Willow Springs than my 991.2 competitor. How could this happen? So all that follows was precipitated by this incident. Irrespective of technical, it was easy to rationalize why I was slower being that this was my first outing with the 991.1 and I not willing to take any chances to pick up 1.5 seconds.
But first a little background information. I have owned a lightly optioned 2013 991.1 Carrera S for some months now, having PDK, Sport Exhaust as its only performance options. It does have sun roof delete and I did upgrade to the 991.1 Sport Steering wheel with paddle shifters.
At the time of my search for a 991.1, did I want a fully optioned car with PDK, Sport Chrono, Sport PASM, etc. Yes, who wouldn’t? But I also felt the need to acquire the car with a full two (2) year CPO warranty, only available in its full two (2) year term from a Porsche dealer, or pro-rated were I were to buy the car from a private party. Buying from a private dealer was not an option as the CPO Warranty is voided if the car is acquired in this manner.
Further limiting my options was the PCNA Sport Chrono Stop Sell edict. This meant that if I wanted the full two (2) year CPO warranty, I’d be limited to a non-Sport Chrono car. I had Sport Chrono on my 2015 Cayman GTS. Admittedly the Sport+ mode was a hair raiser on the track, but for me, ill-advised going to redline in the first 6 gears on the street is not my style. So as a result, I decided that I could live without Sport Chrono. That narrowed the field of possibilities considerably. Rarely will you find a non-Sport Chrono car with Sport PASM. This led me to construct a short list of must have options: PDK, Sport Exhaust, any color but Black, additional options would be “gravy”.
So the search began in March of 2021….pickings were slim, but I did find a 2013 991.1 Carrera S CPO, clean Carfax, having PDK, Sport Exhaust, sunroof delete, “additional engine cooling for cars in hot climate” option, sport seats and clear tail lights. Considering the frenetic state of the used Porsche market last Spring, and on-going to the present, I ordered the car and had it shipped to CA from Naples, FL, sight unseen. Two (2) weeks later, the car arrived, better looking than what I has seen in the pics supplied by the dealer. (Pic above.)
In my eyes, this car was beautiful, long, low and sleek, with 20” wheels, tinted windows and the Agate Gray Metallic paint was in great shape for a FL car with 35,000 miles. The only thing I didn’t like was the steering wheel shifting buttons, in contrast to what I was used to, shifting paddles. Coming from a 2015 Cayman GTS with paddle shifters, I just couldn’t get used to the feel and utility of the original shifter buttons that came on the car. In contrast, shifter paddles are so simple, left side, pull for down shift, right side, pull for upshift, both in simultaneously for Neutral. Luckily, I found a 991.1 Sport Steering locally, and had my Porsche dealer install it (Installation required a PIWIS), about $2,000 for the wheel and installation, when all was said and done. I sold the original air bag and recovered about $300. As most will admit, Porsche cars are built with the track in mind, so what choice did I have but to take the car to the track (Willow Springs) in early June of this year? What an incredible experience driving in the PDK Sport Mode, the car drove as if on rails. Yes, the Nanny buttons were in street mode. I wasn’t taking any chances the first time out. I didn’t want to push it too hard and my times reflected this, a 1:36.XX.
My speedy “Pit Neighbor” drove a 991.2 base Carrera, 3.0, 370 HP, equipped with PDK, having the Sport Chrono package, confirmed as he mentioned having dynamic engine mounts, a feature unique to Sport Chrono. For whatever reason(s), he was, at least 1.5 seconds quicker than me, turning a 1:34…I rationalized his success, he was a good driver, but were the performance options on his 991.2, unavailable to me for all the reasons mentioned above, the deciding factor? This stimulated my thought processes, specifically, how exactly was the 991.2 Carrera superior technically to my 991.1 Carrera S car? And if so, I wondered why we were running in the same PCA Zone 8 class of CC 12? So I did a little digging as you will see below, and quite frankly I was astounded when I realized the performance benefits possessed by the 991.2 VS the 991.1 as a result of Sport Chrono PDK and Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC). And as a side note, PCA Zone 8 at the present time, assigns no extra performance points for cars with Sport Chrono and PDDC.
First thing, is there a weight to HP advantage for the 991.2 Carrera over the 991.1 Carrera S?
· 991.1 Carrera S, average weight of 3,224/400 HP = Wt./Hp. of 8.06.
991.2 Carrera, average weight of 3,190/370 HP = Wt./Hp. of 8.62. It’s a push., however the story changes when the 991.2 Carrera S is put into the equation, with 420 HP resulting in a Wt./Hp. of 7.59. That is definitely a performance advantage. To get my 991.1 Carrera S to a similar Wt./Hp. ratio, it would have to lose about 200 Lbs., not an option.
So as we see, there is no evidence the 370 HP 991.2 Carrera (Excluding the Carrera S) has a Wt. /HP. advantage over my 991.1. So then it could only be:
· Better driver,
· Better tires,
· Technical advantages provided by Sports Chrono and PDCC, I began to think, maybe I am on to something significant here.
Having no historical metrics as to the skill of the driver, and unfamiliar with the specific tires; all I knew for certain is that Hoosiers, they were not. So being a curious individual, I began searching for Porsche Corporate aka PAG documented technical advantages of the 991.2 over the 991.1? Are they significant? They clearly are as seen below, monumental in my opinion.
Technical Advantage #1: 991.2 Sport Chrono Package Contains Model Specific Unique Features when compared to 991.1 Sport Chrono Package. Exclusive to 991.2, PAG confirms Sport Chrono Package with Mode Switch was optional on the 2016 – 2019 991.2 Carrera S cars. They state, “What’s new is the mode switch on the steering wheel, derived from the 918 Spyder to make you feel closer to the racetrack. Without your hand leaving the steering wheel, you can choose any of four settings: Normal, SPORT, SPORT PLUS and Individual. Now you can adapt the vehicle even more to the way you want to drive.”
PAG adds, “In combination with PDK, the Sport Chrono Package on the 991.2 has a feature unique to its Sport Chrono Package, the motorsport-derived gearshift strategy. In this mode, PDK is geared up for extremely short shift times and optimum shift points for the maximum acceleration available. This combination of uncompromising and involving performance is ideal for the racetrack.” And then there is the – SPORT Response – function integrated into the Sport Chrono option package. From PAG, “Pressing the button in the centre of the mode switch primes the engine and transmission for the fastest possible unleashing of power. In other words, maximum responsiveness – for a period of approximately 20 seconds. A timer graphic in the instrument cluster tells you how long is left “ This feature is simply mind boggling…just imagine a car so equipped at the exit of Turn 9 at Willow Springs, press that button, and whoosh, gone. I have seen this personally as described below.
As we see in www.flatsixes.com, “The little button in the middle of the mode switch is the Porsche Sport Response Button (PSRB), and it makes you a driving God for 20 seconds. All it takes is a little press of the button. Porsche has revealed how it works: When you press the PSRB button, the drivetrain is set up for maximum acceleration for a time period of 20 seconds. The PDK gearbox will automatically select the right gear for accelerating, and the turbochargers are allowed to overboost. Porsche makes no claims on horsepower or torque increases during the overboost period, but the car certainly feels faster in the ‘seat-of-the-pants’ sense. We had a chance to test the button out when passing slower traffic, and it works wonders. Kick down a few gears, boost the power, and you’re instantly past what was formerly a rolling roadblock.”
Technical Advantage #2: 991.2 can be optioned with a superior Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC), compared to the 991.1, mainly as a result of being packaged with rear axle steering, as described below. From PAG, “PDCC – optional for all 991.2 S models in conjunction with rear-axle steering – is an active anti-roll system that suppresses lateral body movement during cornering manoeuvres. In addition, it minimises the lateral instability of the vehicle on uneven ground. The results are improved dynamic performance, even more neutral handling and increased ride comfort – whatever the speed. In simple terms, the tyres and vehicle hold the road better and you can steer through corners faster and in a more relaxed manner. Which is why PDCC sets standards for driving performance, ride comfort – and driving pleasure.”
My Conclusion: From what I have discovered with some basic research, the 991.2 is significantly technically superior to the 991.1, as you would expect, for at least the following reasons:
· 991.2 Upgraded Sport Chrono with the Sport Response button, providing up to 20 seconds of controlled mayhem,
· Upgraded PDDC option on the 991.2 with rear axle steering,
· Having a turbo engine, the 991.2 and beyond: The engines can more readily and cheaply be modified for more power with an undetectable electronic tune.
Do the above upgrades make me want to sell my 991.1 and get a 991.2, or perhaps 992? That simply is not the case. I love my 991.1 and it loves me (I hope!), and I am so far from tapping its potential, being nowhere near the 100% mark. And when a 991.2 blows by me on a straight, Carrera or Carrera S, I can surmise it will be due primarily to three (3) variables, or a combination thereof:
1. The 991.2 has a better driver in the seat,
2. The PDDC is facilitating a better exit out of the corners on to the straights,
3. That Sport Response button with the turbo over-boost is doing its job, creating mayhem!
And as far as track driving goes, as we heard Clint Eastwood say in the closing lines of Magnum Force, “A man has got to know his limitations.” And I would take the liberty to add, once you know them, do whatever is necessary to address them, be all that you can be.
If you got this far, congrats....
When I go to the track, I find I have more fun chasing my friends, rather than focusing on lap times.
Anyhow, afaik, when someone is in the Sport Plus mode, pressing the Sport Response button doesn't add anything, because the car is already at maximum performance.
For your variables, there are definitely more, for instance, the driver behind you took the perfect line the corner(s) prior and just got on the throttle earlier or perhaps, the other driver is just faster. Anyhow, it's not important as long as you are having fun!
07-18-2021, 11:04 PM
#21
Really simple, the 991 you currently own is superior to the 991s you don't own.
Now everyone can get a good night's sleep.
Now everyone can get a good night's sleep.
The following 4 users liked this post by BSO:
07-19-2021, 02:24 AM
#22
Rennlist Member
Does the 991.2 Possess Significant Technical Advantages on the Track Compared to the 991.1?
Of course it does, why wouldn’t it? Succeeding Porsche models are always superior to their predecessors, but by how much was my question? And would these advantages provide a significant benefit on the track? Historically, within most DE/TT clubs, Porsche models tend to run within their model groups, 911 SC cars compete with their brethren, 84 to 89 Carrera cars run together, 964 most likely run with 993 cars, both with 3.6 motors, 996 run with 996, 997 with 997, that is until we get to the 991.1 VS 991.2. True, both cars are 991 models, one is port injected 3.4 to 3,8 liter car, NA car, the other 3.0 powered twin turbo assisted. Should they run together in the same class? From the research I have done, the performance delta between these cars seems substantial enough that they should compete in separate classes. But that’s my read.
However, the extinct class assignment model of running model with model concept goes out the window when omnipresent GCR assigned performance classes are based on weight to HP for base points, and not all options are assigned incremental points, in spite of their advantages being significant. This is the present state of things with PCA Zone 8’s GCRs., and other club’s GCRs as well.
As I describe below, I found myself competing with my 2013 991.1 Carrera S in a Time Trial with a 2017 991.2 base Carrera, and to my surprise, that car was quicker than mine. I had 400HP to his 370HP, and I had significantly more experience at Willow Springs than my 991.2 competitor. How could this happen? So all that follows was precipitated by this incident. Irrespective of technical, it was easy to rationalize why I was slower being that this was my first outing with the 991.1 and I not willing to take any chances to pick up 1.5 seconds.
But first a little background information. I have owned a lightly optioned 2013 991.1 Carrera S for some months now, having PDK, Sport Exhaust as its only performance options. It does have sun roof delete and I did upgrade to the 991.1 Sport Steering wheel with paddle shifters.
At the time of my search for a 991.1, did I want a fully optioned car with PDK, Sport Chrono, Sport PASM, etc. Yes, who wouldn’t? But I also felt the need to acquire the car with a full two (2) year CPO warranty, only available in its full two (2) year term from a Porsche dealer, or pro-rated were I were to buy the car from a private party. Buying from a private dealer was not an option as the CPO Warranty is voided if the car is acquired in this manner.
Further limiting my options was the PCNA Sport Chrono Stop Sell edict. This meant that if I wanted the full two (2) year CPO warranty, I’d be limited to a non-Sport Chrono car. I had Sport Chrono on my 2015 Cayman GTS. Admittedly the Sport+ mode was a hair raiser on the track, but for me, ill-advised going to redline in the first 6 gears on the street is not my style. So as a result, I decided that I could live without Sport Chrono. That narrowed the field of possibilities considerably. Rarely will you find a non-Sport Chrono car with Sport PASM. This led me to construct a short list of must have options: PDK, Sport Exhaust, any color but Black, additional options would be “gravy”.
So the search began in March of 2021….pickings were slim, but I did find a 2013 991.1 Carrera S CPO, clean Carfax, having PDK, Sport Exhaust, sunroof delete, “additional engine cooling for cars in hot climate” option, sport seats and clear tail lights. Considering the frenetic state of the used Porsche market last Spring, and on-going to the present, I ordered the car and had it shipped to CA from Naples, FL, sight unseen. Two (2) weeks later, the car arrived, better looking than what I has seen in the pics supplied by the dealer. (Pic above.)
In my eyes, this car was beautiful, long, low and sleek, with 20” wheels, tinted windows and the Agate Gray Metallic paint was in great shape for a FL car with 35,000 miles. The only thing I didn’t like was the steering wheel shifting buttons, in contrast to what I was used to, shifting paddles. Coming from a 2015 Cayman GTS with paddle shifters, I just couldn’t get used to the feel and utility of the original shifter buttons that came on the car. In contrast, shifter paddles are so simple, left side, pull for down shift, right side, pull for upshift, both in simultaneously for Neutral. Luckily, I found a 991.1 Sport Steering locally, and had my Porsche dealer install it (Installation required a PIWIS), about $2,000 for the wheel and installation, when all was said and done. I sold the original air bag and recovered about $300. As most will admit, Porsche cars are built with the track in mind, so what choice did I have but to take the car to the track (Willow Springs) in early June of this year? What an incredible experience driving in the PDK Sport Mode, the car drove as if on rails. Yes, the Nanny buttons were in street mode. I wasn’t taking any chances the first time out. I didn’t want to push it too hard and my times reflected this, a 1:36.XX.
My speedy “Pit Neighbor” drove a 991.2 base Carrera, 3.0, 370 HP, equipped with PDK, having the Sport Chrono package, confirmed as he mentioned having dynamic engine mounts, a feature unique to Sport Chrono. For whatever reason(s), he was, at least 1.5 seconds quicker than me, turning a 1:34…I rationalized his success, he was a good driver, but were the performance options on his 991.2, unavailable to me for all the reasons mentioned above, the deciding factor? This stimulated my thought processes, specifically, how exactly was the 991.2 Carrera superior technically to my 991.1 Carrera S car? And if so, I wondered why we were running in the same PCA Zone 8 class of CC 12? So I did a little digging as you will see below, and quite frankly I was astounded when I realized the performance benefits possessed by the 991.2 VS the 991.1 as a result of Sport Chrono PDK and Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC). And as a side note, PCA Zone 8 at the present time, assigns no extra performance points for cars with Sport Chrono and PDDC.
First thing, is there a weight to HP advantage for the 991.2 Carrera over the 991.1 Carrera S?
· 991.1 Carrera S, average weight of 3,224/400 HP = Wt./Hp. of 8.06.
991.2 Carrera, average weight of 3,190/370 HP = Wt./Hp. of 8.62. It’s a push., however the story changes when the 991.2 Carrera S is put into the equation, with 420 HP resulting in a Wt./Hp. of 7.59. That is definitely a performance advantage. To get my 991.1 Carrera S to a similar Wt./Hp. ratio, it would have to lose about 200 Lbs., not an option.
So as we see, there is no evidence the 370 HP 991.2 Carrera (Excluding the Carrera S) has a Wt. /HP. advantage over my 991.1. So then it could only be:
· Better driver,
· Better tires,
· Technical advantages provided by Sports Chrono and PDCC, I began to think, maybe I am on to something significant here.
Having no historical metrics as to the skill of the driver, and unfamiliar with the specific tires; all I knew for certain is that Hoosiers, they were not. So being a curious individual, I began searching for Porsche Corporate aka PAG documented technical advantages of the 991.2 over the 991.1? Are they significant? They clearly are as seen below, monumental in my opinion.
Technical Advantage #1: 991.2 Sport Chrono Package Contains Model Specific Unique Features when compared to 991.1 Sport Chrono Package. Exclusive to 991.2, PAG confirms Sport Chrono Package with Mode Switch was optional on the 2016 – 2019 991.2 Carrera S cars. They state, “What’s new is the mode switch on the steering wheel, derived from the 918 Spyder to make you feel closer to the racetrack. Without your hand leaving the steering wheel, you can choose any of four settings: Normal, SPORT, SPORT PLUS and Individual. Now you can adapt the vehicle even more to the way you want to drive.”
PAG adds, “In combination with PDK, the Sport Chrono Package on the 991.2 has a feature unique to its Sport Chrono Package, the motorsport-derived gearshift strategy. In this mode, PDK is geared up for extremely short shift times and optimum shift points for the maximum acceleration available. This combination of uncompromising and involving performance is ideal for the racetrack.” And then there is the – SPORT Response – function integrated into the Sport Chrono option package. From PAG, “Pressing the button in the centre of the mode switch primes the engine and transmission for the fastest possible unleashing of power. In other words, maximum responsiveness – for a period of approximately 20 seconds. A timer graphic in the instrument cluster tells you how long is left “ This feature is simply mind boggling…just imagine a car so equipped at the exit of Turn 9 at Willow Springs, press that button, and whoosh, gone. I have seen this personally as described below.
As we see in www.flatsixes.com, “The little button in the middle of the mode switch is the Porsche Sport Response Button (PSRB), and it makes you a driving God for 20 seconds. All it takes is a little press of the button. Porsche has revealed how it works: When you press the PSRB button, the drivetrain is set up for maximum acceleration for a time period of 20 seconds. The PDK gearbox will automatically select the right gear for accelerating, and the turbochargers are allowed to overboost. Porsche makes no claims on horsepower or torque increases during the overboost period, but the car certainly feels faster in the ‘seat-of-the-pants’ sense. We had a chance to test the button out when passing slower traffic, and it works wonders. Kick down a few gears, boost the power, and you’re instantly past what was formerly a rolling roadblock.”
Technical Advantage #2: 991.2 can be optioned with a superior Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC), compared to the 991.1, mainly as a result of being packaged with rear axle steering, as described below. From PAG, “PDCC – optional for all 991.2 S models in conjunction with rear-axle steering – is an active anti-roll system that suppresses lateral body movement during cornering manoeuvres. In addition, it minimises the lateral instability of the vehicle on uneven ground. The results are improved dynamic performance, even more neutral handling and increased ride comfort – whatever the speed. In simple terms, the tyres and vehicle hold the road better and you can steer through corners faster and in a more relaxed manner. Which is why PDCC sets standards for driving performance, ride comfort – and driving pleasure.”
My Conclusion: From what I have discovered with some basic research, the 991.2 is significantly technically superior to the 991.1, as you would expect, for at least the following reasons:
· 991.2 Upgraded Sport Chrono with the Sport Response button, providing up to 20 seconds of controlled mayhem,
· Upgraded PDDC option on the 991.2 with rear axle steering,
· Having a turbo engine, the 991.2 and beyond: The engines can more readily and cheaply be modified for more power with an undetectable electronic tune.
Do the above upgrades make me want to sell my 991.1 and get a 991.2, or perhaps 992? That simply is not the case. I love my 991.1 and it loves me (I hope!), and I am so far from tapping its potential, being nowhere near the 100% mark. And when a 991.2 blows by me on a straight, Carrera or Carrera S, I can surmise it will be due primarily to three (3) variables, or a combination thereof:
1. The 991.2 has a better driver in the seat,
2. The PDDC is facilitating a better exit out of the corners on to the straights,
3. That Sport Response button with the turbo over-boost is doing its job, creating mayhem!
And as far as track driving goes, as we heard Clint Eastwood say in the closing lines of Magnum Force, “A man has got to know his limitations.” And I would take the liberty to add, once you know them, do whatever is necessary to address them, be all that you can be.
If you got this far, congrats....
Of course it does, why wouldn’t it? Succeeding Porsche models are always superior to their predecessors, but by how much was my question? And would these advantages provide a significant benefit on the track? Historically, within most DE/TT clubs, Porsche models tend to run within their model groups, 911 SC cars compete with their brethren, 84 to 89 Carrera cars run together, 964 most likely run with 993 cars, both with 3.6 motors, 996 run with 996, 997 with 997, that is until we get to the 991.1 VS 991.2. True, both cars are 991 models, one is port injected 3.4 to 3,8 liter car, NA car, the other 3.0 powered twin turbo assisted. Should they run together in the same class? From the research I have done, the performance delta between these cars seems substantial enough that they should compete in separate classes. But that’s my read.
However, the extinct class assignment model of running model with model concept goes out the window when omnipresent GCR assigned performance classes are based on weight to HP for base points, and not all options are assigned incremental points, in spite of their advantages being significant. This is the present state of things with PCA Zone 8’s GCRs., and other club’s GCRs as well.
As I describe below, I found myself competing with my 2013 991.1 Carrera S in a Time Trial with a 2017 991.2 base Carrera, and to my surprise, that car was quicker than mine. I had 400HP to his 370HP, and I had significantly more experience at Willow Springs than my 991.2 competitor. How could this happen? So all that follows was precipitated by this incident. Irrespective of technical, it was easy to rationalize why I was slower being that this was my first outing with the 991.1 and I not willing to take any chances to pick up 1.5 seconds.
But first a little background information. I have owned a lightly optioned 2013 991.1 Carrera S for some months now, having PDK, Sport Exhaust as its only performance options. It does have sun roof delete and I did upgrade to the 991.1 Sport Steering wheel with paddle shifters.
At the time of my search for a 991.1, did I want a fully optioned car with PDK, Sport Chrono, Sport PASM, etc. Yes, who wouldn’t? But I also felt the need to acquire the car with a full two (2) year CPO warranty, only available in its full two (2) year term from a Porsche dealer, or pro-rated were I were to buy the car from a private party. Buying from a private dealer was not an option as the CPO Warranty is voided if the car is acquired in this manner.
Further limiting my options was the PCNA Sport Chrono Stop Sell edict. This meant that if I wanted the full two (2) year CPO warranty, I’d be limited to a non-Sport Chrono car. I had Sport Chrono on my 2015 Cayman GTS. Admittedly the Sport+ mode was a hair raiser on the track, but for me, ill-advised going to redline in the first 6 gears on the street is not my style. So as a result, I decided that I could live without Sport Chrono. That narrowed the field of possibilities considerably. Rarely will you find a non-Sport Chrono car with Sport PASM. This led me to construct a short list of must have options: PDK, Sport Exhaust, any color but Black, additional options would be “gravy”.
So the search began in March of 2021….pickings were slim, but I did find a 2013 991.1 Carrera S CPO, clean Carfax, having PDK, Sport Exhaust, sunroof delete, “additional engine cooling for cars in hot climate” option, sport seats and clear tail lights. Considering the frenetic state of the used Porsche market last Spring, and on-going to the present, I ordered the car and had it shipped to CA from Naples, FL, sight unseen. Two (2) weeks later, the car arrived, better looking than what I has seen in the pics supplied by the dealer. (Pic above.)
In my eyes, this car was beautiful, long, low and sleek, with 20” wheels, tinted windows and the Agate Gray Metallic paint was in great shape for a FL car with 35,000 miles. The only thing I didn’t like was the steering wheel shifting buttons, in contrast to what I was used to, shifting paddles. Coming from a 2015 Cayman GTS with paddle shifters, I just couldn’t get used to the feel and utility of the original shifter buttons that came on the car. In contrast, shifter paddles are so simple, left side, pull for down shift, right side, pull for upshift, both in simultaneously for Neutral. Luckily, I found a 991.1 Sport Steering locally, and had my Porsche dealer install it (Installation required a PIWIS), about $2,000 for the wheel and installation, when all was said and done. I sold the original air bag and recovered about $300. As most will admit, Porsche cars are built with the track in mind, so what choice did I have but to take the car to the track (Willow Springs) in early June of this year? What an incredible experience driving in the PDK Sport Mode, the car drove as if on rails. Yes, the Nanny buttons were in street mode. I wasn’t taking any chances the first time out. I didn’t want to push it too hard and my times reflected this, a 1:36.XX.
My speedy “Pit Neighbor” drove a 991.2 base Carrera, 3.0, 370 HP, equipped with PDK, having the Sport Chrono package, confirmed as he mentioned having dynamic engine mounts, a feature unique to Sport Chrono. For whatever reason(s), he was, at least 1.5 seconds quicker than me, turning a 1:34…I rationalized his success, he was a good driver, but were the performance options on his 991.2, unavailable to me for all the reasons mentioned above, the deciding factor? This stimulated my thought processes, specifically, how exactly was the 991.2 Carrera superior technically to my 991.1 Carrera S car? And if so, I wondered why we were running in the same PCA Zone 8 class of CC 12? So I did a little digging as you will see below, and quite frankly I was astounded when I realized the performance benefits possessed by the 991.2 VS the 991.1 as a result of Sport Chrono PDK and Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC). And as a side note, PCA Zone 8 at the present time, assigns no extra performance points for cars with Sport Chrono and PDDC.
First thing, is there a weight to HP advantage for the 991.2 Carrera over the 991.1 Carrera S?
· 991.1 Carrera S, average weight of 3,224/400 HP = Wt./Hp. of 8.06.
991.2 Carrera, average weight of 3,190/370 HP = Wt./Hp. of 8.62. It’s a push., however the story changes when the 991.2 Carrera S is put into the equation, with 420 HP resulting in a Wt./Hp. of 7.59. That is definitely a performance advantage. To get my 991.1 Carrera S to a similar Wt./Hp. ratio, it would have to lose about 200 Lbs., not an option.
So as we see, there is no evidence the 370 HP 991.2 Carrera (Excluding the Carrera S) has a Wt. /HP. advantage over my 991.1. So then it could only be:
· Better driver,
· Better tires,
· Technical advantages provided by Sports Chrono and PDCC, I began to think, maybe I am on to something significant here.
Having no historical metrics as to the skill of the driver, and unfamiliar with the specific tires; all I knew for certain is that Hoosiers, they were not. So being a curious individual, I began searching for Porsche Corporate aka PAG documented technical advantages of the 991.2 over the 991.1? Are they significant? They clearly are as seen below, monumental in my opinion.
Technical Advantage #1: 991.2 Sport Chrono Package Contains Model Specific Unique Features when compared to 991.1 Sport Chrono Package. Exclusive to 991.2, PAG confirms Sport Chrono Package with Mode Switch was optional on the 2016 – 2019 991.2 Carrera S cars. They state, “What’s new is the mode switch on the steering wheel, derived from the 918 Spyder to make you feel closer to the racetrack. Without your hand leaving the steering wheel, you can choose any of four settings: Normal, SPORT, SPORT PLUS and Individual. Now you can adapt the vehicle even more to the way you want to drive.”
PAG adds, “In combination with PDK, the Sport Chrono Package on the 991.2 has a feature unique to its Sport Chrono Package, the motorsport-derived gearshift strategy. In this mode, PDK is geared up for extremely short shift times and optimum shift points for the maximum acceleration available. This combination of uncompromising and involving performance is ideal for the racetrack.” And then there is the – SPORT Response – function integrated into the Sport Chrono option package. From PAG, “Pressing the button in the centre of the mode switch primes the engine and transmission for the fastest possible unleashing of power. In other words, maximum responsiveness – for a period of approximately 20 seconds. A timer graphic in the instrument cluster tells you how long is left “ This feature is simply mind boggling…just imagine a car so equipped at the exit of Turn 9 at Willow Springs, press that button, and whoosh, gone. I have seen this personally as described below.
As we see in www.flatsixes.com, “The little button in the middle of the mode switch is the Porsche Sport Response Button (PSRB), and it makes you a driving God for 20 seconds. All it takes is a little press of the button. Porsche has revealed how it works: When you press the PSRB button, the drivetrain is set up for maximum acceleration for a time period of 20 seconds. The PDK gearbox will automatically select the right gear for accelerating, and the turbochargers are allowed to overboost. Porsche makes no claims on horsepower or torque increases during the overboost period, but the car certainly feels faster in the ‘seat-of-the-pants’ sense. We had a chance to test the button out when passing slower traffic, and it works wonders. Kick down a few gears, boost the power, and you’re instantly past what was formerly a rolling roadblock.”
Technical Advantage #2: 991.2 can be optioned with a superior Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC), compared to the 991.1, mainly as a result of being packaged with rear axle steering, as described below. From PAG, “PDCC – optional for all 991.2 S models in conjunction with rear-axle steering – is an active anti-roll system that suppresses lateral body movement during cornering manoeuvres. In addition, it minimises the lateral instability of the vehicle on uneven ground. The results are improved dynamic performance, even more neutral handling and increased ride comfort – whatever the speed. In simple terms, the tyres and vehicle hold the road better and you can steer through corners faster and in a more relaxed manner. Which is why PDCC sets standards for driving performance, ride comfort – and driving pleasure.”
My Conclusion: From what I have discovered with some basic research, the 991.2 is significantly technically superior to the 991.1, as you would expect, for at least the following reasons:
· 991.2 Upgraded Sport Chrono with the Sport Response button, providing up to 20 seconds of controlled mayhem,
· Upgraded PDDC option on the 991.2 with rear axle steering,
· Having a turbo engine, the 991.2 and beyond: The engines can more readily and cheaply be modified for more power with an undetectable electronic tune.
Do the above upgrades make me want to sell my 991.1 and get a 991.2, or perhaps 992? That simply is not the case. I love my 991.1 and it loves me (I hope!), and I am so far from tapping its potential, being nowhere near the 100% mark. And when a 991.2 blows by me on a straight, Carrera or Carrera S, I can surmise it will be due primarily to three (3) variables, or a combination thereof:
1. The 991.2 has a better driver in the seat,
2. The PDDC is facilitating a better exit out of the corners on to the straights,
3. That Sport Response button with the turbo over-boost is doing its job, creating mayhem!
And as far as track driving goes, as we heard Clint Eastwood say in the closing lines of Magnum Force, “A man has got to know his limitations.” And I would take the liberty to add, once you know them, do whatever is necessary to address them, be all that you can be.
If you got this far, congrats....
I have to confess Martin that I could not read everything; I am well into a bottle of (cheap) wine and that's a lot of words. Maybe tomorrow...
The little button, which I never push, does nothing if I am in sport plus as it already gives me max boost and magically selects the right gear. I learned that here on Rennlist! The bottom line is I have better tires than you; the Goodyear 3r's are really fantastic and you should try them. You'll gain 2 seconds pretty easily, which I think puts you at 1:34. None of the other stuff matters (I don't have PDCC or rear axle steering) because a case could easily be made that my HP suffered greatly in the 100+ degree weather as my turbos choked. If I throw in my super squishy suspension, it makes the case even less compelling
I referenced in another thread I posted in; there is a guy in the SDR region that runs a 991.1 base and he kicked my butt along with some GT3's at Chuckwalla. In this case, he is just a MUCH better driver with a lot less experience than many, in the lowest of the low performing 991's.. You and I probably are at a similar spot with respect to capabilities, though I think you are still better irrespective of the numbers. When we both get to 1:30 at Big Willow, then the competition and measuring contest can really begin on our capabilities and our cars! Until then, let's both of us gang up on those slow guys running GT3's and do our best to embarrass them!
07-19-2021, 03:38 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Small world...
Wujohn IS my neighbor, and he is a damn fine driver with a great car. I do hope we are pit neighbors again in September.
I remain convinced, that PCCC, Sport Chrono, PTV, etc. make driving a Porsche car at speed, an easier task, in contrast to having no driver assists. Does Porsche, with the cooperation of car magazines hype these features? Of course they do. Was I duped into over-rating these feature? Time will tell.
In the meantime, I will be getting to the track as often as possible and making certain we both are 100% prepared.
I remain convinced, that PCCC, Sport Chrono, PTV, etc. make driving a Porsche car at speed, an easier task, in contrast to having no driver assists. Does Porsche, with the cooperation of car magazines hype these features? Of course they do. Was I duped into over-rating these feature? Time will tell.
In the meantime, I will be getting to the track as often as possible and making certain we both are 100% prepared.
07-19-2021, 04:07 AM
#24
Rennlist Member
Wujohn IS my neighbor, and he is a damn fine driver with a great car. I do hope we are pit neighbors again in September.
I remain convinced, that PCCC, Sport Chrono, PTV, etc. make driving a Porsche car at speed, an easier task, in contrast to having no driver assists. Does Porsche, with the cooperation of car magazines hype these features? Of course they do. Was I duped into over-rating these feature? Time will tell.
In the meantime, I will be getting to the track as often as possible and making certain we both are 100% prepared.
I remain convinced, that PCCC, Sport Chrono, PTV, etc. make driving a Porsche car at speed, an easier task, in contrast to having no driver assists. Does Porsche, with the cooperation of car magazines hype these features? Of course they do. Was I duped into over-rating these feature? Time will tell.
In the meantime, I will be getting to the track as often as possible and making certain we both are 100% prepared.
The other functions might help but the answer here it tires, in my opinion. It is certainly not the driver.
07-19-2021, 12:38 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I should have talked to Wujohn before I started this string.....I lost his email. 
He is the real deal...isn't afraid to wrench on his car, and drives his tail off. When we were at Willow Springs, it was incredibly hot and windy, to be expected at Willow Springs in June.
Where I got the bug to dig into the purported benefits of Sports Chrono and PDDC was at Willow a few months earlier (BTW, I don't even recall seeing Wujohn on the track this past June) after a 991.2, maybe even a 992, accelerated away from me as if I was standing still doing out of Turn 9, WFF said I. (I know, I am repeating myself here, maybe dementia?). Because this car couldn't shake me through Turns 6, 7 and 8...on I was his tail through 9, and then poof, he was gone. I concluded, there must be some technology behind this. Could it have been superior driving skill? Perish the thought.
"The little button, which I never push, does nothing if I am in sport plus as it already gives me max boost and magically selects the right gear. I learned that here on Rennlist! The bottom line is I have better tires than you; the Goodyear 3r's are really fantastic and you should try them. (I will !) You'll gain 2 seconds pretty easily, which I think puts you at 1:34. None of the other stuff matters (I don't have PDCC or rear axle steering. (I was wrong here, I thought you had PDDC....because you had dynamic engine mounts. Didn't know they were available without PDCC.) because a case could easily be made that my HP suffered greatly in the 100+ degree weather as my turbos choked. If I throw in my super squishy suspension, it makes the case even less compelling. (Great points!)
In closing, I have had a lot of fun with this string, from the initial research and creation, to reading the response I have seen, most all less than positive. If I had to do it over, I would have tried a different approach. Nevertheless, al in. all, it has been fun for me and allowed me the opportunity to work on my writing skills or lack thereof.
He is the real deal...isn't afraid to wrench on his car, and drives his tail off. When we were at Willow Springs, it was incredibly hot and windy, to be expected at Willow Springs in June. Where I got the bug to dig into the purported benefits of Sports Chrono and PDDC was at Willow a few months earlier (BTW, I don't even recall seeing Wujohn on the track this past June) after a 991.2, maybe even a 992, accelerated away from me as if I was standing still doing out of Turn 9, WFF said I. (I know, I am repeating myself here, maybe dementia?). Because this car couldn't shake me through Turns 6, 7 and 8...on I was his tail through 9, and then poof, he was gone. I concluded, there must be some technology behind this. Could it have been superior driving skill? Perish the thought.
"The little button, which I never push, does nothing if I am in sport plus as it already gives me max boost and magically selects the right gear. I learned that here on Rennlist! The bottom line is I have better tires than you; the Goodyear 3r's are really fantastic and you should try them. (I will !) You'll gain 2 seconds pretty easily, which I think puts you at 1:34. None of the other stuff matters (I don't have PDCC or rear axle steering. (I was wrong here, I thought you had PDDC....because you had dynamic engine mounts. Didn't know they were available without PDCC.) because a case could easily be made that my HP suffered greatly in the 100+ degree weather as my turbos choked. If I throw in my super squishy suspension, it makes the case even less compelling. (Great points!)
In closing, I have had a lot of fun with this string, from the initial research and creation, to reading the response I have seen, most all less than positive. If I had to do it over, I would have tried a different approach. Nevertheless, al in. all, it has been fun for me and allowed me the opportunity to work on my writing skills or lack thereof.
07-19-2021, 07:27 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Why do you guys have to justify your purchase. Truth is the .2 Is more advanced, its just evolution. I cant get all but hurt and tied up about which one is "better". I know I like turbo cars and thats what I bought.
07-19-2021, 08:46 PM
#27
the 991.2 is better in every way except for the sound IMO. I have a .1, only because I couldnt justify spending 40k more for a .2 with the options I want. At the end of the day I still own my dream car
07-20-2021, 12:09 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
The .2 is technically superior, even if only at the margins, IMO. That does not mean it is a better car however as beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I certainly like the way his car sounds vs mine.
The following users liked this post:
Martin S. (07-20-2021)
07-20-2021, 01:36 AM
#29
Where I got the bug to dig into the purported benefits of Sports Chrono and PDDC was at Willow a few months earlier (BTW, I don't even recall seeing Wujohn on the track this past June) after a 991.2, maybe even a 992, accelerated away from me as if I was standing still doing out of Turn 9, WFF said I. (I know, I am repeating myself here, maybe dementia?). Because this car couldn't shake me through Turns 6, 7 and 8...on I was his tail through 9, and then poof, he was gone. I concluded, there must be some technology behind this. Could it have been superior driving skill? Perish the thought.
The following users liked this post:
Martin S. (07-20-2021)
07-20-2021, 01:37 AM
#30