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Glad I stumbled upon this thread. I’ve been grappling with this decision over the last few months as well. The uses for the car would be strictly weekend/backroad driving. I live in rural north Texas and there are quite a few roads around where I live. I sold a 993 last fall and am looking to get into a more modern 911. The 993 turned out to be more of a project than I (or my wife) had counted on. She really wants a more modern car that she feels safe riding in with me. Also have a young daughter (and 1 on the way) that I would like to share the hobby with.
I love the small intricacies that make the T a T. As someone stated before, I really love the small details (fabric door pulls, standard LSD, shorter gear shifter, lightweight glass, etc.). But first and foremost I want an emotional connection to the car. And I believe a lot of that stems from the noises the car makes. Engine noise, exhaust, gearbox whine, etc. I do not listen to the radio when I’m driving. I replaced the speakers and radio in my previous 993 and never turned it on. So in that respect I’m having a hard time deciding if the NA engine note of the 991.1 GTS is worth it over the additional refinement and little details of the T. Most likely it would come down to price and spec of the cars you were comparing. It’s a tough decision no doubt. Both are great 911s.
Like most here with an opinion I drove the .1 GTS MT and PDK in 2017 back to back but instead went with a T on a limb….and have never looked back. The T is an absolute joy to drive. After driving the cayman S (MT), Boxster S (PDK) and 911 GTS (MT & PDK) and Turbo S (PDK) I knew I wanted the following:
1. 911
2. Rear wheel drive…it’s amazing how heavy AWD felt back to back even in a Turbo S
3. manual transmission. PDK was great but I have never been about just speed, I wanted to feel the drive
4. The lightest weight car I could get because the cayman was a blast more due to weight but the 911 was so much better due to power and how much magic fairy dust Porsche has placed on the model.
I was totally about the .1 GTS…until they announced the T. The 3.0t is an absolute gem especially in base guise. The small turbos are perfect for this car and negate traditional turbo lag. Exhaust is good but if you want perfect then look at a GT3. Although on paper the T = .1 GTS weight, the T feels significantly more nimble and almost jumpy which I love (mine has RAS). The GTS felt like an awesome touring car…the T feels like it’s back to basics and removes a lot of the perceived luxuries (sunroof, insulation, seats depending on spec, etc). It feels like it has only one purpose, to be a sports car. The GTS felt like a Swiss Army knife…good at everything but that wasn't what I was looking for. My T is spec’d with LWBS, RAS and PCCBs and that’s about it and I wouldn’t have it an other way. Oh, and I have 5 small children and when I was looking at it I realized there isn’t a Porsche on this planet that can fit the whole fam and 99.5% of my driving (to/from work) is alone. I love taking the kids out 1 at a time to spend quality time with them and it makes them feel incredible special. To quote my 2-yr old when asked why he likes the car: “because it’s perfect”.
Love that you take the kids out 1 at a time. That’s awesome. My daughter is 1 1/2 and I’d really like her to form memories with dad in the car.
My perfect T spec would be MT, base seats, no sunroof, RAS, and PCCBs. Nothing else. I’ve only seen 1 car that fit this spec in 9 months, but I still had the 993 and wasn’t ready to pull the trigger. Targeting next spring to jump back in as used car market is nuts right now. We’ll see how it goes.
Glad I stumbled upon this thread. I’ve been grappling with this decision over the last few months as well. The uses for the car would be strictly weekend/backroad driving. I live in rural north Texas and there are quite a few roads around where I live. I sold a 993 last fall and am looking to get into a more modern 911. The 993 turned out to be more of a project than I (or my wife) had counted on. She really wants a more modern car that she feels safe riding in with me. Also have a young daughter (and 1 on the way) that I would like to share the hobby with.
I love the small intricacies that make the T a T. As someone stated before, I really love the small details (fabric door pulls, standard LSD, shorter gear shifter, lightweight glass, etc.). But first and foremost I want an emotional connection to the car. And I believe a lot of that stems from the noises the car makes. Engine noise, exhaust, gearbox whine, etc. I do not listen to the radio when I’m driving. I replaced the speakers and radio in my previous 993 and never turned it on. So in that respect I’m having a hard time deciding if the NA engine note of the 991.1 GTS is worth it over the additional refinement and little details of the T. Most likely it would come down to price and spec of the cars you were comparing. It’s a tough decision no doubt. Both are great 911s.
I'll chime in on the small details, they are fun to have. I also have a Cayman R with the red door pulls, and to me the T is a grown up version of the CR. Having driven the mid-engined Porsches for a number of years, and my last 911 was from the '70s, I was afraid that the "new" 911 would feel too large. In reality, I'm finding the T to be as "small" on the road as any Porsche sports car. I do like the sound and if you're coming from a 993, the shifter will feel like heaven.
Love that you take the kids out 1 at a time. That’s awesome. My daughter is 1 1/2 and I’d really like her to form memories with dad in the car.
My perfect T spec would be MT, base seats, no sunroof, RAS, and PCCBs. Nothing else. I’ve only seen 1 car that fit this spec in 9 months, but I still had the 993 and wasn’t ready to pull the trigger. Targeting next spring to jump back in as used car market is nuts right now. We’ll see how it goes.
I was looking for that spec too, but very few PCCB's and most had a sunroof. I got one with the glass roof and, surprise, it makes the cabin airy and now I'm very happy it's there.
The original owner of mine apparently came from a 993, there was a note in the service records I got where he complained that the shifter was more notchy than his 993...
As to the spec, the base sports seats are wonderful, and if you find a car with the PLLDs grab it. That's technology leaps and bounds better than the 90's version.
18 months ago I was on the verge of buying a new white 2019 T with MT, RAS and other options that I really liked. It would have been via a dealer trade from out of state, since my local guy said he could get it for me for $15K below MSRP and the dealer who had the car was not very flexible. Meanwhile, a local collector traded in his white 2016 GTS with MT, SportDesign Package, Burmester sound system, etc., still under warranty, and with only 2,700 miles on the odo. Considering the extra cost of an extended warranty and CL winter wheels that the GTS would need, there wasn't much difference in cost. I bought the GTS because I loved its NA engine (and I already have a twin-turbo FD3 RX7, for the zoom factor), but I truly believe I would have been very happy with either car, except for the white paint. Did I mention that white is not my favorite color? Anyhow, this choice is like asking who would you choose, Ginger or Mary Ann - you can't lose.
18 months ago I was on the verge of buying a new white 2019 T with MT, RAS and other options that I really liked. It would have been via a dealer trade from out of state, since my local guy said he could get it for me for $15K below MSRP and the dealer who had the car was not very flexible. Meanwhile, a local collector traded in his white 2016 GTS with MT, SportDesign Package, Burmester sound system, etc., still under warranty, and with only 2,700 miles on the odo. Considering the extra cost of an extended warranty and CL winter wheels that the GTS would need, there wasn't much difference in cost. I bought the GTS because I loved its NA engine (and I already have a twin-turbo FD3 RX7, for the zoom factor), but I truly believe I would have been very happy with either car, except for the white paint. Did I mention that white is not my favorite color? Anyhow, this choice is like asking who would you choose, Ginger or Mary Ann - you can't lose.
You’re right, both great cars. No wrong choices as far as I’m concerned.
Originally Posted by andy7777
I was looking for that spec too, but very few PCCB's and most had a sunroof. I got one with the glass roof and, surprise, it makes the cabin airy and now I'm very happy it's there.
The original owner of mine apparently came from a 993, there was a note in the service records I got where he complained that the shifter was more notchy than his 993...
As to the spec, the base sports seats are wonderful, and if you find a car with the PLLDs grab it. That's technology leaps and bounds better than the 90's version.
Yeah, that’s my unicorn spec. Really, I think I’d be just fine with MT, base seats, and maybe RAS. PCCBs are a hard find and I’m sure the base brakes would be fine for my usage. The idea of dropping some unsprung weight is tempting though!
Like most things in Life, The devil is in the details.
The newest iteration of 911 T was a very neat concept from Porsche. Though its value and resale in general is higher than Base 991.2 models by a wide margin, the true essence of the "T" was lost on many 911 T orders as they were configured and ordered by Dealers.
The fact that a base 991.2 car with its linear more "911 Pure" Turbo engine could be ordered with FAL, RAS, LWB, PCCB, Manual trans, no sunroof, less sound proofing and lighter glass is what made 911 T special...... Not the limited production numbers or side decals.
The much celebrated resale value and collectability was mostly based on the assumption that most 911Ts will be equipped with some (if not most) options usually specific for GT3 models.
Looking at the market, I often see many 911Ts with No RAS, No FAL, Glass Sunroof, PDK, etc etc. At that point the Carrera T is nothing more than a base 991.2 with a side decal. As a member here showed recently (in another thread), adding a back seat carpet can negate weight savings achieved with lighter/thinner rear glass.
Devil is in the details.. not in the decals or Model trim name.
Like most things in Life, The devil is in the details.
The newest iteration of 911 T was a very neat concept from Porsche. Though its value and resale in general is higher than Base 991.2 models by a wide margin, the true essence of the "T" was lost on many 911 T orders as they were configured and ordered by Dealers.
The fact that a base 991.2 car with its linear more "911 Pure" Turbo engine could be ordered with FAL, RAS, LWB, PCCB, Manual trans, no sunroof, less sound proofing and lighter glass is what made 911 T special...... Not the limited production numbers or side decals.
The much celebrated resale value and collectability was mostly based on the assumption that most 911Ts will be equipped with some (if not most) options usually specific for GT3 models.
Looking at the market, I often see many 911Ts with No RAS, No FAL, Glass Sunroof, PDK, etc etc. At that point the Carrera T is nothing more than a base 991.2 with a side decal. As a member here showed recently (in another thread), adding a back seat carpet can negate weight savings achieved with lighter/thinner rear glass.
Devil is in the details.. not in the decals or Model trim name.
I almost ordered a new .2 T. I played with the configurator for many hours. My car would have been a 7MT slicktop with LWB's and CCB, all model designation and decals deleted. I personally would NOT have ordered RAS or FAL (with money having absolutely nothing to do with it). Everyone has their own perfect spec...... but I agree with you, a glass sunroof PDK 911T makes no sense.....if that's what you want go buy a base carrera and save yourself some money.
but IMO to each their own. Just get what puts a smile on your face and then share that smile with family, friends, and even an occasional stranger along the way (like a little 8-yr old kid that can’t stop looking at your car with amazement). The only thing I can say is if you buy either of these cars for collectibility, which has been mentioned, you will NOT enjoy it. Instead you will fret every time you drive the vehicle (which both are meant to be driven) and worry about every stone along the way…and there’s a lot of stones out there!
the true essence of the "T" was lost on many 911 T orders as they were configured and ordered by Dealers.
Looking at the market, I often see many 911Ts with No RAS, No FAL, Glass Sunroof, PDK, etc etc.
I don't totally blame dealers, the problem is us, the customers. I mean, not us Rennlist enthusiasts... but your typical buyers.
I came into the "T" game very late. I decided to buy a T in late 2019 and I wanted 'new off the lot'. There were still a couple available even then.
The one I ended up buying was a slicktop MT with RAS and FAL in Racing Yellow, the T interior package and no other bells & whistles.
You would think such a spec would sell fast?
It had sat on that dealer's lot for almost a year and only accumulated 20 miles.
Like most things in Life, The devil is in the details.
The newest iteration of 911 T was a very neat concept from Porsche. Though its value and resale in general is higher than Base 991.2 models by a wide margin, the true essence of the "T" was lost on many 911 T orders as they were configured and ordered by Dealers.
The fact that a base 991.2 car with its linear more "911 Pure" Turbo engine could be ordered with FAL, RAS, LWB, PCCB, Manual trans, no sunroof, less sound proofing and lighter glass is what made 911 T special...... Not the limited production numbers or side decals.
The much celebrated resale value and collectability was mostly based on the assumption that most 911Ts will be equipped with some (if not most) options usually specific for GT3 models.
Looking at the market, I often see many 911Ts with No RAS, No FAL, Glass Sunroof, PDK, etc etc. At that point the Carrera T is nothing more than a base 991.2 with a side decal. As a member here showed recently (in another thread), adding a back seat carpet can negate weight savings achieved with lighter/thinner rear glass.
Devil is in the details.. not in the decals or Model trim name.
I was late to the game and bought what I assumed was a dealer spec one in mid-2019. relatively low optioned manual, sunroof, SC, bose, and RAS. but it was my least favorite color black. ended up trading it for an even lower optioned CPO manual, non-sunroof, non-RAS in early 2020… but in miami blue- my favorite available color for the T. i figured it was going to be as close to my perfect spec as i could get with my own money which would be: manual, miami blue, no sunroof, SC, RAS. baller perfect spec would add PCCB and buckets. *if* they release a 992 T i likely will try and get an allocation.
but IMO to each their own. Just get what puts a smile on your face and then share that smile with family, friends, and even an occasional stranger along the way (like a little 8-yr old kid that can’t stop looking at your car with amazement). The only thing I can say is if you buy either of these cars for collectibility, which has been mentioned, you will NOT enjoy it. Instead you will fret every time you drive the vehicle (which both are meant to be driven) and worry about every stone along the way…and there’s a lot of stones out there!
The NA noise of the GTS 991.1 is the closest to owning a GT3 without paying GT3 prices.... (has the best cars and coffee apeal)
The 991.2 T will be lightweight special but with a muted note and great low end thrust.....
I drove both...
I went with a heavily performance optioned 991.2 S because its a rocket ship compared to the two above. (each there own, the T has nice special touches, for driver enjoyment).
Again porsche gives you tons of choices.
If you are going to keep the car and modify it a 991.2 IS A MUST... they can be made stupid fast.... get the APR turbo upgrade under 10,000 US dollars.
Wolf in sheeps clothing.... no spoilers side vents etc...
Last edited by snake eyes; 06-07-2021 at 01:32 PM.
06-05-2021, 10:27 PM
