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This isn't a which one is better thread, it is a what are the differences thread, and what do those differences mean thread.
The following is a little introduction of how I got to where I'm at.
I have been on the hunt for a new toy car with a few parameters.
1. It must be fun to drive.
2. It must be something I am passionate about, something that I think about when it is tucked away, & something I'll go out to the garage just to look at.
3. A car that has a community of enthusiasts. This one may sound silly but I've learned in my 35 years in this hobby the value of others that share your passion.
4. Fits my budget. I started off wanting to spend $60-$70k, then quickly realized $80-$100k was more appropriate for the kind of cars I would want.
5. Doesn't depreciate like a bomb
My first choice was a Corvette C7 Z06, It checks off 1 through 5. The problem is I don't fit in it. My head is at a 45 degree angle no matter how I adjust the seat. On top of that, the interior is made up of vast expanses of cheap 90's plastic , and I was in a 3ZR.
I also considered an Aston DB9, Virage or DBS but they are almost impossible to find in my budget with a stick (#4), and I'm worried how fun an auto with a torque convertor would be (#1), Oh and #5.
I'm too young for an SL , though I really like them. The wife says "They're farty" and she's paying so her opinion counts.
Which lead me to one of my dream cars, the 911. It's a car burnt in to my memory, from my dads friend's dark green 1974 911s that I first seen when I was 3, to the new Turbo S that drove by me last week. I butchered countless magazines by pulling out the ads and taping them to my walls. Who remembers the 1980's ad of the Turbo jumping over a hill, or the full model pullouts with all the cars in Guards Red with their specs listed? I have always wanted one and almost bought a few over the years but never pulled the trigger.
Anyway who cares tl;dr. Cliffs, I want a Porsche.
I finally found a spare minute to stop into my local Porsche dealership and take a look at some cars. I wanted to first sit in one to see if I would be comfortable. The only car available was a 2017 base Carrera. The salesperson handed me the key and opened the door and moved the seat back. I mentally crossed my fingers as I got in. I fit! Not only did I fit but I had room and was comfortable. The ergonomics were fantastic, the interior materials were quality and I just liked being inside the car.
The problem is this was a base car and not a cab. I went in believing I need to have an S, preferably an an S cab.
I've been doing some research and it appears the 2017+ base cars are turbo and are respectably quick (High 11's in the 1/4) and you can easily tune them for more. Performance is somewhat important as my last car I just sold was a low 10 second car.
My questions are.
How does the driving experience differ from a higher revving N/A 2012--2016 Carrera S to the base 2017+ turbocharged Carrera?
Also what do you get on a 2012-2016 S that you don't get on a 2017+ Base car, (Better trans, clutch, differential, cooling, brakes, etc)?
How does the 2017 S compare to the 2017 Base, and again what do you get on the S that you don't or can't get on the Base car?
How does the cab feel versus the hard top? My only experience was driving my uncles 1996 20 years ago which frankly was disappointing.
Finally, has anyone switched from a 991 to an AMG GT or vice versa, or spent time in one and has an opinion to share.
I'll give you some things to think about. Just to keep it in perspective, and to help where I am coming from: I bought my first Porsche, a used '14 Cayman S, about four years ago, after many many years of BMWs including my last one, an E92 M3. I kept the Cayman for a little over a year, finally deciding it was too small for what I wanted. I loved the normally aspirated 3.4l, but you really had to keep it on the boil to make progress. I sold it to buy a CPO '17 991.2 in 2019. I'm not a track guy, and do not do 1/4 mile runs. My car is my daily driver. I recently decided to hang up work "for good". Last year seemed like a good time to end my 31 year career in Aerospace Engineering.
In deciding to buy my 911, I looked at each of the options on your list, except for the AMG. So, with that, let me get the AMG out of the way. I have owned one MBZ, a '99 C280 I bought new. I had it for four years. It was in the shop more often for unscheduled repairs (13 times) than our Chrysler Minivan (11 times). When the crankshaft damper pulley let go at 40K miles ($8,000 repair, covered by warranty), I had had enough. I sold it to buy a BMW E46 ZHP. I am sure MBZ quality has evolved, but I would not buy another one. As to the AMG, I had to go look it up. It looks like it would be very fast in a straight line. A new one looks to start at $119K or so? Anyway, I'll leave this to others who know much more than I do.
Base 991 ('12-'16). These are the NA cars, and have a lot of fans. Having my 981S with the same engine (AFAIK), I'm familiar with th e motor. It is super fun to rev, and the sound of it reverberating off the walls of entrance ramps is like ripping silk. I only let my inner 17-year old out occasionally, but I admit cranking up my Cayman S was a lot of fun. Objectively, you'll find them pretty reliable, as I don't really seem to see a lot of "issue" threads. This is a theme you start to notice; the 911s have their issues in the past but the 991 series seems to be a solid build. The 991.1 guys will have better knowledge, so I would defer to the owners. The tech will be of the era, so if you value Carplay, or having a backup camera, things like that, you will miss those things. Obviously they will tend to be cheaper, but good luck finding one especially here in COVID times.
New 992. I looked at ordering a 992, but was trying to buy (2019) during the changeover from 991.2 to 992. I also generally don't like to buy German cars in the first year or two of production. Plus, they had added a hefty amount to the price. And of course there was no option (as far as I know, still no option) to order a base 992 with a MT. Sure, you can get an S, but the base is only available with PDK. I realize MT vs. PDK is a near religious debate; I don't know where you sit on this but they'll have to pry my MT out of my cold dead hands. So in the end, the new 992 wasn't really an option, for me.
Which leaves me to the base 991.2, and obviously what I ended up with.
I used the Porsche NA search tool to look across the US for CPO or certified used cars that had acceptable color(s), equipment (MT+Sports Chrono), condition, mileage, service/carfax history, number of owners, and price. I found six. Of the six, the one I bought ended up being in Long Island NY. I flew up from Tampa, took a test drive, and paid the asking price. I then drove it home. The turbo engine has much more grunt down low; I find it vastly more satisfying to drive around town. Still, even my base car is capable of causing my wife to grip the seat base firmly as I wind the big central dial clockwise in second and third.
Being a '17, I may or may not have had the water pump replaced by the previous (1) owner, as that seems to be a common problem. Door panels warping is another. Mine is covered by the original warranty till this August, then another two years under the CPO extension. So I should be ok through '23. I'll likely keep it and just self-insure any future repairs.
But also being a '17, I have wired Carplay, a backup camera, decent nav system, and all of the .2 upgrades and changes over the .1. Obviously the big change is the 9A2 twin turbo engine, but this includes other little stuff. The oil drain plug is plastic VW part, not a threaded sump plug, things like that. The sport chrono package features a rotary control, not pushbuttons. The auto-start stop function is vastly more annoying, but I switch mine to SPORT on starting the car and completely bypass ***. The .2 gear set, ring gear/pinion shaft is adopted from the 991 Turbo. The base model has 330x34mm rotors front and rear; the S upgrades to 350mm. Porsche Communication Management (PCM) was upgraded to 4.0, with a 7" WVGA screen.
Depreciation is tricky. I've not been watching the market, but it sure seems like a sellers market these days. A lot of people are buying cars in the 100K region, cash in hand. If you see a 911 you want, I would not hesitate.
The 991.2 has a lot of positives over the 991.1, but the chief difference is the engine. If you like NA, you'll like the .1, if you prefer the T, the .2 is the answer. You kind of have to drive both. Both cars are fantastic though. One last point, and it's why I should have bought a 911 25 years ago. Any 911 is like a sports car for adults. The wipers work. You can see out of it. You don't have to worry too much about scraping the front on speed bumps. You can pack enough stuff for you and your SO to spend the week just about anywhere. Yes the rear seats are for Hobbits, but with the seat backs folded down, there is a lot of room back there for soft sided luggage, back packs, etc. The thing is just so practical. And if you want to boot it along, it will happily oblige. Even though I have the absolute lowest level of 991.2 you can buy, it's mine, and I love it.
Good luck, and I'll be interested in what you end up buying.
All the 911s you mention are going to give you all the performance you need (legal and illegal) for the street. All the models can be tuned to high levels.
Base v S, main differences are bigger brakes and turbos on S, 370hp Base, 420hp S. The S also has additional standard features v Base. Info is on the web.
Finding one that fits you is what will take time and flexibility. I would take an S or GTS but no Targas or sunroofs, tired of leaks, squeaks, extra weight and complexity (mine is a slick top '19 C4S manual).
AMG GT looks great and used price is amazing for the stunning visual (car looks so much more expensive than their used car market value) but the issue is with it's super long hood is not so easily drivable/park (at least for me).
So I was think about getting an used AMG GT but decided to get a proper 911 that is comfy, easy to drive and looks great than AMG GT.
I feel that 911 is true enthusiast's car and AMG GT seems more of show car.
With your budget, 991.2 would be great choice. They have still new (new enough) techs and not going to depreciate too much from what you're going to pay since someone already ate the initial depreciation.
992 is asking somewhat premium since it's hard to get but when it's more widely available, you will see a lot more used cars and market will adjust the value.
I'll give you some things to think about. Just to keep it in perspective, and to help where I am coming from: I bought my first Porsche, a used '14 Cayman S, about four years ago, after many many years of BMWs including my last one, an E92 M3. I kept the Cayman for a little over a year, finally deciding it was too small for what I wanted. I loved the normally aspirated 3.4l, but you really had to keep it on the boil to make progress. I sold it to buy a CPO '17 991.2 in 2019. I'm not a track guy, and do not do 1/4 mile runs. My car is my daily driver. I recently decided to hang up work "for good". Last year seemed like a good time to end my 31 year career in Aerospace Engineering.
In deciding to buy my 911, I looked at each of the options on your list, except for the AMG. So, with that, let me get the AMG out of the way. I have owned one MBZ, a '99 C280 I bought new. I had it for four years. It was in the shop more often for unscheduled repairs (13 times) than our Chrysler Minivan (11 times). When the crankshaft damper pulley let go at 40K miles ($8,000 repair, covered by warranty), I had had enough. I sold it to buy a BMW E46 ZHP. I am sure MBZ quality has evolved, but I would not buy another one. As to the AMG, I had to go look it up. It looks like it would be very fast in a straight line. A new one looks to start at $119K or so? Anyway, I'll leave this to others who know much more than I do.
Base 991 ('12-'16). These are the NA cars, and have a lot of fans. Having my 981S with the same engine (AFAIK), I'm familiar with th e motor. It is super fun to rev, and the sound of it reverberating off the walls of entrance ramps is like ripping silk. I only let my inner 17-year old out occasionally, but I admit cranking up my Cayman S was a lot of fun. Objectively, you'll find them pretty reliable, as I don't really seem to see a lot of "issue" threads. This is a theme you start to notice; the 911s have their issues in the past but the 991 series seems to be a solid build. The 991.1 guys will have better knowledge, so I would defer to the owners. The tech will be of the era, so if you value Carplay, or having a backup camera, things like that, you will miss those things. Obviously they will tend to be cheaper, but good luck finding one especially here in COVID times.
New 992. I looked at ordering a 992, but was trying to buy (2019) during the changeover from 991.2 to 992. I also generally don't like to buy German cars in the first year or two of production. Plus, they had added a hefty amount to the price. And of course there was no option (as far as I know, still no option) to order a base 992 with a MT. Sure, you can get an S, but the base is only available with PDK. I realize MT vs. PDK is a near religious debate; I don't know where you sit on this but they'll have to pry my MT out of my cold dead hands. So in the end, the new 992 wasn't really an option, for me.
Which leaves me to the base 991.2, and obviously what I ended up with.
I used the Porsche NA search tool to look across the US for CPO or certified used cars that had acceptable color(s), equipment (MT+Sports Chrono), condition, mileage, service/carfax history, number of owners, and price. I found six. Of the six, the one I bought ended up being in Long Island NY. I flew up from Tampa, took a test drive, and paid the asking price. I then drove it home. The turbo engine has much more grunt down low; I find it vastly more satisfying to drive around town. Still, even my base car is capable of causing my wife to grip the seat base firmly as I wind the big central dial clockwise in second and third.
Being a '17, I may or may not have had the water pump replaced by the previous (1) owner, as that seems to be a common problem. Door panels warping is another. Mine is covered by the original warranty till this August, then another two years under the CPO extension. So I should be ok through '23. I'll likely keep it and just self-insure any future repairs.
But also being a '17, I have wired Carplay, a backup camera, decent nav system, and all of the .2 upgrades and changes over the .1. Obviously the big change is the 9A2 twin turbo engine, but this includes other little stuff. The oil drain plug is plastic VW part, not a threaded sump plug, things like that. The sport chrono package features a rotary control, not pushbuttons. The auto-start stop function is vastly more annoying, but I switch mine to SPORT on starting the car and completely bypass ***. The .2 gear set, ring gear/pinion shaft is adopted from the 991 Turbo. The base model has 330x34mm rotors front and rear; the S upgrades to 350mm. Porsche Communication Management (PCM) was upgraded to 4.0, with a 7" WVGA screen.
Depreciation is tricky. I've not been watching the market, but it sure seems like a sellers market these days. A lot of people are buying cars in the 100K region, cash in hand. If you see a 911 you want, I would not hesitate.
The 991.2 has a lot of positives over the 991.1, but the chief difference is the engine. If you like NA, you'll like the .1, if you prefer the T, the .2 is the answer. You kind of have to drive both. Both cars are fantastic though. One last point, and it's why I should have bought a 911 25 years ago. Any 911 is like a sports car for adults. The wipers work. You can see out of it. You don't have to worry too much about scraping the front on speed bumps. You can pack enough stuff for you and your SO to spend the week just about anywhere. Yes the rear seats are for Hobbits, but with the seat backs folded down, there is a lot of room back there for soft sided luggage, back packs, etc. The thing is just so practical. And if you want to boot it along, it will happily oblige. Even though I have the absolute lowest level of 991.2 you can buy, it's mine, and I love it.
Good luck, and I'll be interested in what you end up buying.
Last edited by Rich_Jenkins; 04-02-2021 at 08:25 PM.
I was in a very similar position to not long ago. I wanted to replace my Shelby GT350R after a wonderful 5 years with it. I wanted a new experience and something distinctly different. My criteria was <$100K and maybe back seats (I installed rear seats in my GT350R) as being able to bring the wife and kid maximizes the fun. I do track, but it’s not my life. I wanted to be able to track without blowing through $1000 in consumables in a weekend. Community mattered too, especially one that helps with DIY projects.
Most importantly: I HAVE TO FIT. I’m 6’4” and swing from 215-225lbs as part of my seasonal migration. I’ve got a 34” inseam so headroom matters more than legroom, especially with a helmet.
I considered:
Ferrari 360 (manual)
Ferrari F430 (flappy paddles)
Lotus Evora GT (manual)
Audi R8 (manual)
Porsche 911 (997.2 GTS, 991 all variants)
I wanted a different experience than front engine and rear drive. I wanted lightweight and not heavy. I did not want pain in the **** maintenance. Newer > older.
It came down to new Evora GT or used 991. This is me in an Evora:
The Lotus is also a high-end kit car. The supercharger was a blast, but not for me. It’s also cool, but not beautiful.
So, 991 it was. I decided to adopt the ethos of lightweight and the T was the answer. It was the right answer. I’m not want for power at all, even at 7000+ feet. It’s lithe, and with RAS it rotates like a top.
And I fit with a helmet.
Last edited by Zylinderkopfdichtung; 04-02-2021 at 08:35 PM.
Includes a link to a pdf document called "Service Information 2017 Technik Introduction 911 (991) Generation II". This summarizes the improvements/changes made to the Gen II 991 (aka 991.2) in 2017.
Last edited by Rich_Jenkins; 04-02-2021 at 08:41 PM.
I love big block engines so the SL and the Vette are true contenders for sure but neither of them excite me enough to own one. If I can have just one sports car, I’d take a 991.2 911. I just purchased a big block of my own but I won’t hi jack this thread. From the base to the HALO TTS, 911s are brilliantly engineered cars. From performance to creature comforts to everday useability, they check every box IMO. Only you know what you want so take some test drives and go from there.
I have owned a 997S and recently sold my AMG GT who had upgraded turbos (high 10s).
I do not know what was your low 10 second car (mine was my DD Trackhawk) but I will assume it had a V8 with lots of torque. I think you really need to drive a 991/992S as IMHO they are lacking when it comes to pure fun and torque. The performance is good but the 1/4 miles assume you are doing launch control. Daily driving that 991/992S should show that you have to get high in the revs to start having some fun.
This is where the AMG GT(S) really shines. Daily driving is fun because it growls (just remove secondary resonators) and max torque is available in the 2Ks. Performance edge probably at the drag strip goes to the Porsche due to its outstanding traction. Depending where you live, it's probably rarer than a 911 and will attract more attention (good or bad based on what you prefer).
I bought the car new (2017 model in matte grey) and have owned it for 4 years. Very reliable and no powertrain issues at all even with the mods. Only issues were minor and taken care by the dealer. The community is great (emericr on mbworld and there's even a very active whats app group for the 4 liter platform. Very helpful bunch of gear heads. If possible, go drive one as well.
The only reason one I sold the GT is my quest for a 9 sec daily driver. Porsche answered and I am about to pick up my 21 TTS.
Based on your budget and wish list, I believe the AMG is the better choice (only negative is that it will depreciate a bit more).
04-02-2021, 04:59 PM
991.1 S vs 991.2 Base vs 991.2 S vs AMG GT S
So in the end, the new 992 wasn't really an option, for me.
Leaning the seat back and all the way forward is the way I roll at autocross 
