Tbs206

I actually use this feature when my brakes start to squeak. It takes engine braking out the of equation and allows the brakes to deglaze more effectively by making them do all the work!

asellus

That'd make sense, thanks!

No, the PDK is an automatic. So are the DSGs on the VW side, the SMGs on the BMW side, and whatever the hell mercedes unleashed upon us in the Smart car. None of these transmissions use a torque converter is all -- they are single and dual clutch automatic transmissions.

The reasons supplied in the video are all applicable to the PDK (along with any other automatic SCT/DCT, and even CVTs).

spiderspider

nothing wrong with neutral. when i drove manuals, i put the car in neutral when sitting at a light rather than holding the clutch in. my smg puts itself in neutral when coming to a stop. so does my DCT. that video isn't really applicable. at all.

Fullyield

I never refer to a PDK or other wet or dry clutch as an “automatic” because, as an engineer, I do not want other people to think that I do not know the difference between a hydraulic based automatic transmission with a torque converter like the Triptronic as opposed to the computer controlled clutches on a PDK.....just like I do not use the term “cat” to refer to a lion or tiger. I also do not want others to think that I am not knowledgeable enough to know that the ZF manual gear portion of the PDK is identical to the 7 speed MT with the manual clutch. The difference is the clutch system (manual v. computer controlled), not the gearbox, as they both transfer energy to the rear wheels in the same way. This is not true of the Triptronic, which is a good transmission, just different design and technology.

asellus

Go actually watch the first three or four minutes. Those contain his three major points about coasting in neutral, which are entirely applicable to the PDK. Hell, some are even applicable to manual transmissions.

I'm truly sorry that you feel the need to differentiate yourself in that manner.

It's really a square vs rectangle argument if you look at it. A dual clutch transmission is (generally) an automatic transmission, but an automatic transmission is not necessarily a dual clutch transmission. Is this where we're getting hung up? Because I keep hearing people say "the PDK is not an automatic transmission" which is just wildly incorrect. If you're just being pedantic by refusing to use the umbrella term of 'automatic' to describe the PDK without further defining the type of automatic it is, that's fine enough and this response isn't for you.

Regardless, people need to hear this and it needs to be understood, lest they perpetuate the Porsche owner stereotype of "more money than brains." The fact is the PDK is an automatic transmission. There's no way you can correctly describe the PDK and have the term "automatic transmission" not be correct. Read that sentence again. Under normal driving scenarios, the transmission changes gears, automatically, without need for driver input. This is straight up what an "automatic transmission" is defined as. Have another dictionary saying the same thing. Even Wikipedia agrees, and goes further into the various types of automatic transmissions. The term "automatic transmission" has no bearing on the power coupling system.

AlexZTuned

This is silly. The PDK shifts gears automatically controlled through a TCU. No clutch pedal or shifter = automatic.

No one cares that the 7 speed trans are basically the same. One is shifted manually with a clutch and shifter, the other is shifted pneumatically for you. That is automated by definition.

Take the Ferrari 458 - it’s a transaxle dual clutch automatic, and people have been doing manual conversions because the DCT trans are essentially the same as what you’d have for a manual setup. I don’t think anyone with a 458 says they have a a manual unless they’ve done an actual manual conversion.

Fullyield

Unlike laymen, engineers are trained to use the more specific and accurate language than the over-general, slang and loose terms so we understand each other, communicate better and avoid mistakes during discussion. Most automotive engineers use very precise terminology to avoid misunderstandings.....thus the cat v. Lion/tiger example. Although they are both cats, referring to a lion or tiger as a cat although technically correct would probably lead to a misunderstanding and could be dangerous in certain situations. While it is a technically correct term, it is not the best or more descriptive term. A similar mistake is when people refer to hybrid vehicles as EVs or confuse turbos with super chargers. Similar....but not the same.

BTW- in the engineering and research worlds, Wikipedia is not considered authoritative or reliable. Why? Because it is anonymous and any statement by someone who does not wish to put their name and reputation behind it are inherently untrustworthy.

To directly answer your question, an automotive engineer would describe the PDK as a ZF 7 speed manual transmission with dual, computer controlled, wet clutches as opposed to a ZF manual transmission with a single, manually operated, dry clutch.

Fullyield

Well, an engineer would definitely care about whether the power transfer I is through a manual transmission with either wet or dry clutches (regardless of whether manually or computer controlled) or hydraulic through a torque converter. Big difference in the engineering world. That is the point - The lack of accurate and descriptive terminology leads to confusion. The cat v. Lion/tiger analogy again.

asellus

Answering questions nobody asked for the sole purpose of proving the existence of your vast intellect and "engineer training" does you exactly zero favours, even under the guise of "being clear and specific." Of every engineer I know, from actual engineers to people who just like to say "I'm an engineer," exactly one of them went out of their way to prove themselves to everyone else. He was unceremoniously ****canned for being difficult to work with.

It's great that you're an engineer, and while I love being reminded of this every three sentences and absolutely don't see this as condescending behaviour in any way, it doesn't change the fact that the PDK is an automatic transmission. The answer to "is it an automatic" is "yes." Full stop. There is nothing confusing about this, and answering "what kind of automatic is it" is not part of the scope, here. Further, thinking that "automatic transmission" implies "torque converter" or anything else about how the power coupling worked or gear changing is technically performed is 100% a you problem, because as outlined above, these traits are not defined by the term "automatic transmission."

With regards to Wikipedia, I'd agree with you if it wasn't for... how do I phrase this... being objectively incorrect. Authoritative and reliable sources being directly cited to back the claims in the digested articles it provides. You are free to go check these citations and draw your own conclusions. In the research and engineering world, we call this research. The layman might call this "doing your homework" or some other (apparently) confusing, unclear colloquialism.

Fullyield

I apologize as I have clearly upset you based on your highly emotional response. My responses have all been objective and explanatory. The personal attack always follows the lack of a persuasive argument on the merits. Try to enjoy the remainder of your weekend.