yoda888

I'm close to pulling the trigger on a 991. However I just realized that the seller does not have the title, it's held by Porsche Financial.

How could this transaction be done to properly protect me, the buyer?

NHmacan

Are you paying cash or financing? When I have done this in the past the seller contacts the lien holder and they arrange to have the title sent usually to a local bank branch. Since it’s Porsche maybe a dealer or attorneys office?

Catharpin

That is how it works here. Bank holds the title until it is paid. I have always just paid them off before I go to sell. In your case you would go to the bank, do the transaction. Seller pays it off and bank releases the title.

asellus

Same as any other car with a lien, I'd imagine.

yoda888

I would depend on the seller to send me the title after the fact. During that time he could 'change his mind' and not send me the title and report that I stole it?

Having a 3rd party holding the title makes this so much more complicated.

I guess I can inquire with Porsche Financial if the loan can be transferred to me, or if I can take out a new loan with them so all the paperwork is handled by them internally.

97supratt

This!!

You file all the necessary paperwork to transfer registration, ownership, and bill of sale. Total you call the company explain Beale has been sold. You or seller can pay the bank and tell them where to send the title. They will fedex or ups the title.

JuanK20

Best way is to take out a loan for the car and not pay cash. I've done it before. My bank worked directly with the seller's bank. The car was paid off and a check was sent to the seller for the difference.

Norge911

1. Sign all paperwork, contract and your state required documents. Ensure to include relinquish of title/ plate document with seller and send on his behalf. I know Texas has this form

2. Make two checks, one payable to seller and 2nd to Porsche financial to pay off balance.
3. take car and drive home.
4. wait for title to be forwarded to you by seller.

you have car and all docs required for sale and a contract with seller. So even if seller don’t send title, submit the relinquish of title form. Once posted with DMV, file lost title. Pain in the a.so but hopefully seller is honest and don’t hold back title.
don’t send the full amount to seller in hopes of him paying off the loan with Porsche financial

seller could also claim that you would cancel check sent to Porsche financial and seller is cheated.

I would only do this type of transaction if car was local. having gone through out of state private transactions, they can be a pain and I would not do if the seller didn’t have the title.

VektorPerformance

^ In VA it's similar, but I have been able to have the title holding company forward the title to the new owner, after payment (partial payment from the buyer) is received. This is typically just filling out a title forwarding form with the title holding bank/institute. This way the title being in 'limbo' is never in the hands of the seller.

smgkc

I have been in/around the DMV business all of my life, the below shows what I would do if I were in your situation. Please keep in mind that without the title in hand there are risks no matter how you look at it, unless the seller is willing to pay off the vehicle out of his own funds, wait for the title, then do the transaction.

Title holding (with loans) depend on each individual state, if the vehicle lives in a state where the lender holds the title, there are a series of things I would do. If you live in a titling-holding state, have him request the title from the lender (they are legally required to in certain states loan or not) Title-Holding States.
1.) Do your normal inspections pre-purchase
2.) If you decide to purchase, do it at the bank/dealer(PFS) and make sure your funds are directly provided to pay off the vehicle, if the person is upside down on the vehicle loan, they need to put money out of their own pocket in order to satisfy the loan at time of sale. I would consider calling/visiting dealer Porsche Financial (PFS) with him (they won't talk to you about his loan) and verify the amount owing. I haven't had a loan with Porsche Financial (PFS) but if the dealer acts as a bank, take a cashiers check for your payment there (have the seller take a cashiers check too if they are upside down for the difference), if the dealer doesn't act as a bank for Porsche Financial then I would do the same thing but wiring funds (wiring fees suck). The key is to make sure your monies are applied to the loan and not the sellers pocketbook.
3.) In every state I know of the sale is accepted with only a bill of sale, this is critical to obtain at time of funding; I always do 3 original copies (1 for Seller, 1 for Buyer, 1 for DMV), try to obtain an official one from your state DMV's website. Even if a Notary isn't required for your state, I would recommend getting the bill of sale notarized, there are some weird situations where notarizing is required that isnt apparent, for instance not being within KBB/NADA value in certain states. The title is not required to be given at time of sale for a legal sale, most states require titles to be provided within 30 days or else you can return the car (I dont know how that would work in a private fashion). Porsche Financial (PFS) should take approx. 1-2 weeks to get that title & lien release to the seller and it should be agreed ahead of time that he will UPS w/ tracking the title to you as soon as he completes his portion. EVERYONE WILL NEED TO TAKE THEIR TIME ON THE TITLE, MISTAKES USUALLY MEAN DUPLICATE TITLES, if you make a mistake put a single line through the middle of the word of the mistake. If you scribble through words or make major errors, you most likely will need a new title, which the state may send directly to the lender and could cost you tons of time.

Other: I would also request a copy of the front and back of his drivers license. I just bought a 911 from an individual and we both sent pictures of our drivers licenses to each other. There was no conflict or hesitation, we both agreed it helped to establish trust.

I know i didn't mention it much here, but you have to have that lien release to free up the title, its critical and will come from the bank/porsche financial.

Good luck and I hope you love your new car!

smgkc

Be careful in the title forwarding arena, unless the forwarding company has a power of attorney for the vehicle from the seller, the sellers signature has to be on the title.

jfischet

it's a scary situation to be in. we bought a car this past summer from an out-of-state dealer. i put the car on my American Express card (dealer charged me for the 4%, which i felt was fair)

there was a title issue because the dealer failed to fill out the paperwork properly and the title could not be transferred to us. called AmEx in the DMV parking lot and stopped payment.

the dealer hit the roof (he literally screamed at me on the phone for 5 minutes and threatened to sue me) but a few FedEx packages back and forth and we got the correct paperwork. title was transferred and i called AmEx and released the funds.

rnl

does Porsche still retain a security interest in the car for 6 months following sale? They did in 2012 when I purchased my 991.1. It was explained to me that the security interest was to prevent a quick sale out of the US.

smgkc

I am not aware of this ever happening in my state, I would be inclined to say that would be an illegal action as you have to have "skin in the game" once a financial institution is "paid-off" they have no "skin in the game". I would understand them waiting for funds to clear but past that point they should release all holds/security interest in the property, regardless of what happens to the property.

rnl

Oh, it's legal (lawyer here) and set out in the Agreement of Sale. Skin in the Game...established in the Agreement of Sale.

ICGAS about flipping the car so I didn't object.