991 pdk warning
#16
RL Community Team
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Congratulations You qualify as a keyboard tough guy. I can guarantee if you saw and met me in person you would not have the stones to say that to my face. I live in a town on Long Island if you want you can come buy and we can discuss how tough you are. Any time! BTW junior 6 years in the USMC and 25 in LE I do not now nor have I ever whined.
I have 4 cars and yes this was driven along with 3 Audis. My wife’s A5 Cab with 49K had a steering column issue and it had to be replaced. It too was out of warranty, no bitching we were ready to pay to have it replaced. We did not even ask. BUT Audi unlike Porsche took responsibilities and said this part should not have worn out and replaced it as good will W/O charging us.
Porsche has had quite a few of the PDK transmissions go south They know there is a problem that is my point.
I have 4 cars and yes this was driven along with 3 Audis. My wife’s A5 Cab with 49K had a steering column issue and it had to be replaced. It too was out of warranty, no bitching we were ready to pay to have it replaced. We did not even ask. BUT Audi unlike Porsche took responsibilities and said this part should not have worn out and replaced it as good will W/O charging us.
Porsche has had quite a few of the PDK transmissions go south They know there is a problem that is my point.
Please, show me the statistics that illustrate this "quite a few" metric you're quoting. I'll save you some time and let you know that people posting about it on rennlist are an extreme minority of Porsche owners -- I'm talking about an unbiased sampling. You know, the information Porsche has at their disposal.
#17
Racer
Thread Starter
The problem with high end cars are high end repair costs, regardless of brand.
Sorry this happened to you. I agree PCNA should step up to the plate. It is not as if this is the only instance of tranny going bad, seems to happen far too often as witnessed here. A problem like this at 23,000 miles is really embarrassing for Porsche.
Sorry this happened to you. I agree PCNA should step up to the plate. It is not as if this is the only instance of tranny going bad, seems to happen far too often as witnessed here. A problem like this at 23,000 miles is really embarrassing for Porsche.
#18
Racer
Thread Starter
I hope you eventually see the irony in calling someone a keyboard tough guy follow immediately by puffing your chest and inviting someone to a physical altercation.
Please, show me the statistics that illustrate this "quite a few" metric you're quoting. I'll save you some time and let you know that people posting about it on rennlist are an extreme minority of Porsche owners -- I'm talking about an unbiased sampling. You know, the information Porsche has at their disposal.
Please, show me the statistics that illustrate this "quite a few" metric you're quoting. I'll save you some time and let you know that people posting about it on rennlist are an extreme minority of Porsche owners -- I'm talking about an unbiased sampling. You know, the information Porsche has at their disposal.
#19
Unfortunate that this happened, never like reading these stories and I understand the frustration. When you buy a car like this, you expect it to be reliable throughout a reasonable amount of time or mileage. If this happened at 100-200k, that is understandable. But at 23k, that is very early. Someone I know had their transmission fail at around 300 miles on their brand new PDK Cayman.
I would first talk with the dealer and make sure you're getting a refurbished unit. That should be much more reasonably priced. I would also check and see if they're willing to price match to someone online like Sunset or Sonnen Porsche Parts. I think I have seen refurbished PDK's through them for around $8k, but don't quote me exactly. Then you'll have labor.
Not that it makes you feel better, but at 78k miles the DSG transmission in my Audi S4 needed to be replaced. The dual clutch transmissions are great. They don't fail often but when they do, it is extremely expensive, in my case it was 6 weeks without my car and $11k, which was covered under Fidelity warranty. Our family had an IMS bearing go on a Boxster years ago and that was completely out of pocket.
The mechanical aspect of the PDK is probably fine. It is probably a sensor inside of the transmission that is faulty and Porsche refuses to repair these units. Until someone is repairing these for a reasonable cost, sub $5k, I will not be buying one unfortunately, even though I really do like dual clutch transmissions. At least not without warranty.
Again, hope you're able to get it covered and keep us posted.
I would first talk with the dealer and make sure you're getting a refurbished unit. That should be much more reasonably priced. I would also check and see if they're willing to price match to someone online like Sunset or Sonnen Porsche Parts. I think I have seen refurbished PDK's through them for around $8k, but don't quote me exactly. Then you'll have labor.
Not that it makes you feel better, but at 78k miles the DSG transmission in my Audi S4 needed to be replaced. The dual clutch transmissions are great. They don't fail often but when they do, it is extremely expensive, in my case it was 6 weeks without my car and $11k, which was covered under Fidelity warranty. Our family had an IMS bearing go on a Boxster years ago and that was completely out of pocket.
The mechanical aspect of the PDK is probably fine. It is probably a sensor inside of the transmission that is faulty and Porsche refuses to repair these units. Until someone is repairing these for a reasonable cost, sub $5k, I will not be buying one unfortunately, even though I really do like dual clutch transmissions. At least not without warranty.
Again, hope you're able to get it covered and keep us posted.
#20
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Never said a PHYSICAL altercation...READ discuss is what I said. But in any event if you read my original post I said the SA said this is not uncommon and that they just last week had a Macon with low miles with the same condition. AND the fact that there is a long thread about how to fix this “problem” should be enough to tell you that this is happening enough that there needs to be info on how to service and fix the problem. If you do a search the post comes up and is very informative by PV997.
Unfortunately, you're not going to convince a Porsche tech to go off-book and start taking apart a PDK to replace individual components. It's simply not worth the time to train and supply all the techs for that. That's why they huck a new transmission at it, send the broken one to a central location to be repaired, and reissue it out to the next guy who needs one. It's just how these things work at scale.
Look at VANOS on an e39 M5 -- the most common failure is a broken solder joint, but they'd just replace the whole $2600 unit if it had problems. BMW never acknowledged this BUT they did make a change in later years, adding a set screw plate on the solenoids to keep them from vibrating so much and breaking solder joints. I'm sure Porsche has identified some common failure points and made updates to the transmission accordingly. This is one of the main reasons why people make the argument to not buy first-year car models.
#21
It probably is something like a sensor or something within the valve train that’s stuck.
It’s out of warranty. Just go to several different shops and ask around. I’m sure you’ll find one that’s willing to diagnose further. Hell it may be something as simple pie.
There are quite a few folks who’s making 2x more torque from their modded / tuned cars and haven’t heard of any catastrophic failures. Just that it slips at certain point which obviously is a given. So we know these are tough mechanically. But just like any other German cars, it can be very finicky.
I have a foxwell diagnostic device and I remember seeing a few features where it allows you to test and diagnose PDK. You may also want to just have a shop flush out the fluid and see if they find anything. If not, again it may be something A LOT cheaper than $16K!
Worst case scenario, check out eBay. You may find a slightly used one for $3K-$4K and pay a shop $1.5- $2K to swap it.
I feel for you though. I recently traded in my old 718 GTS for a used 2018 991.2 GTS and already having water pump / overheating issues at only 26K miles. Luckily I’m under factory warranty and the SA immediately eluded that its not uncommon to have internal water pump leak and get into the vacuum system where it controls vital components like the coolant shutoff valve and PDK cooling!
At the end of the day, I absolutely agree that this is completely unacceptable for a 100K+ car and having the reputation of being one of the most reliable high end automobile.
Just keep calm, be tactful, think forward on actionable solutions.
It’s out of warranty. Just go to several different shops and ask around. I’m sure you’ll find one that’s willing to diagnose further. Hell it may be something as simple pie.
There are quite a few folks who’s making 2x more torque from their modded / tuned cars and haven’t heard of any catastrophic failures. Just that it slips at certain point which obviously is a given. So we know these are tough mechanically. But just like any other German cars, it can be very finicky.
I have a foxwell diagnostic device and I remember seeing a few features where it allows you to test and diagnose PDK. You may also want to just have a shop flush out the fluid and see if they find anything. If not, again it may be something A LOT cheaper than $16K!
Worst case scenario, check out eBay. You may find a slightly used one for $3K-$4K and pay a shop $1.5- $2K to swap it.
I feel for you though. I recently traded in my old 718 GTS for a used 2018 991.2 GTS and already having water pump / overheating issues at only 26K miles. Luckily I’m under factory warranty and the SA immediately eluded that its not uncommon to have internal water pump leak and get into the vacuum system where it controls vital components like the coolant shutoff valve and PDK cooling!
At the end of the day, I absolutely agree that this is completely unacceptable for a 100K+ car and having the reputation of being one of the most reliable high end automobile.
Just keep calm, be tactful, think forward on actionable solutions.
Last edited by Purekoryo; 11-14-2020 at 08:17 PM.
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GT3FZS (11-15-2020)
#23
Racer
Thread Starter
It probably is something like a sensor or something within the valve train that’s stuck.
It’s out of warranty. Just go to several different shops and ask around. I’m sure you’ll find one that’s willing to diagnose further. Hell it may be something as simple pie.
There are quite a few folks who’s making 2x more torque from their modded / tuned cars and haven’t heard of any catastrophic failures. Just that it slips at certain point which obviously is a given. So we know these are tough mechanically. But just like any other German cars, it can be very finicky.
I have a foxwell diagnostic device and I remember seeing a few features where it allows you to test and diagnose PDK. You may also want to just have a shop flush out the fluid and see if they find anything. If not, again it may be something A LOT cheaper than $16K!
Worst case scenario, check out eBay. You may find a slightly used one for $3K-$4K and pay a shop $1.5- $2K to swap it.
I feel for you though. I recently traded in my old 718 GTS for a used 2018 991.2 GTS and already having water pump / overheating issues at only 26K miles. Luckily I’m under factory warranty and the SA immediately eluded that its not uncommon to have internal water pump leak and get into the vacuum system where it controls vital components like the coolant shutoff valve and PDK cooling!
At the end of the day, I absolutely agree that this is completely unacceptable for a 100K+ car and having the reputation of being one of the most reliable high end automobile.
Just keep calm, be tactful, think forward on actionable solutions.
It’s out of warranty. Just go to several different shops and ask around. I’m sure you’ll find one that’s willing to diagnose further. Hell it may be something as simple pie.
There are quite a few folks who’s making 2x more torque from their modded / tuned cars and haven’t heard of any catastrophic failures. Just that it slips at certain point which obviously is a given. So we know these are tough mechanically. But just like any other German cars, it can be very finicky.
I have a foxwell diagnostic device and I remember seeing a few features where it allows you to test and diagnose PDK. You may also want to just have a shop flush out the fluid and see if they find anything. If not, again it may be something A LOT cheaper than $16K!
Worst case scenario, check out eBay. You may find a slightly used one for $3K-$4K and pay a shop $1.5- $2K to swap it.
I feel for you though. I recently traded in my old 718 GTS for a used 2018 991.2 GTS and already having water pump / overheating issues at only 26K miles. Luckily I’m under factory warranty and the SA immediately eluded that its not uncommon to have internal water pump leak and get into the vacuum system where it controls vital components like the coolant shutoff valve and PDK cooling!
At the end of the day, I absolutely agree that this is completely unacceptable for a 100K+ car and having the reputation of being one of the most reliable high end automobile.
Just keep calm, be tactful, think forward on actionable solutions.
#24
Racer
Thread Starter
Again from my research it seems to be the hydraulic portion of the Tranny not the mechanical, so I’m waiting to hear from someone who has done the repair I described to get feedback before I move forward.
#25
Keep us posted. Hopefully just a stuck check valve! Has the fluid been changed? Not sure what the PM time interval is but lubricants generally degrade (oxidize) exponentially at around the 5 year mark.
#26
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Good idea, but it looks like their published interval is 120k/12yr. At least it isn't a "lifetime fluid" !
#27
https://pictures.dealer.com/porscheo...c236bb8451.pdf
Good idea, but it looks like their published interval is 120k/12yr. At least it isn't a "lifetime fluid" !
Good idea, but it looks like their published interval is 120k/12yr. At least it isn't a "lifetime fluid" !
#28
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
#29
Rennlist Member
This is one reason why I didn’t want a PDK for long term any more. It’s not serviceable (supposedly) and comes with a hefty price tag to replace. I would only own one of these newer Porsches with a warranty. I’m hoping PCNA comes through with a favorable decision for you. Regardless of age, 23k mile failure is unacceptable.
Last edited by NJ991; 11-14-2020 at 09:56 PM.