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I have recently purchased my car and it took me about four months till I got the car I wanted.
You have to be prepared to walk away from cars that just don't "feel" right. I had the paperwork in front of me for a car that I really would have liked, but there was an issue in the paperwork I didn't like regarding arbitration. It was mandatory that I sign with the arbitration clause, so I didn't!
I moved on and found the car that I have now, which is a CPO car with less mileage, more options and an all around cleaner car (I live in PA and found the car in California). You can ship a car fully insured for about $1500.
Do yourself a favor. Use this link to search Autotempest. It is VERY easy to find the car that you want. Go to the bottom of the page and you'll see searches already setup for Autotrader and CarGurus.
I've taken the liberty of setting up the search for you and used your zip code as well. Extremely easy to do very thorough searches very quickly. GL! https://www.autotempest.com/results?...nsmission=auto
I think others have already mentioned but really a CPO car is only "worth it" for the warranty, it is no guarantee of a like new car. I'm extremely OCD about my toys, wash them before putting back in the garage etc.
I bought a 1 owner CPO 30k car 2 years ago from NJ, thinking that the premium for Porsche dealer would mean all faults would be disclosed. The car was mechanically sound but cosmetic issues were not disclosed and having traveled from NC to collect the car there wasn't much I could do on the spot to resolve. The dealer was firm on price as he knew he had be over a barrel. In the end I spent $2k out of pocket having the paint touched up and corrected when I brought the car home. Similarly I traded up to a 1 owner CPO 12k car (3hrs from me) earlier this year. Thinking I'd learnt from my mistakes in terms of upfront research, the vehicle still had issues both cosmetically and an inoperative AC compressor. The real difference this time around was the dealer, the Porsche premium stepped in and they gave me a Cayenne to drive home in while they moved mountains to have everything fixed as quickly as possible then delivering my new car 300miles to my home.
David G, It has become abundantly clear to me that CPO designation provides zero assurance re a car's condition. Both Cars A and B from this thread were CPO and both had significant problems; For car B it's clear that the dealer was aware of the problems and chose not to disclose them; for Car A I suspect that the CPO inspection had not even been performed. Regarding the CPO that you traded for earlier this year, surely a properly conducted CPO inspection would have revealed the issues that you describe, so it seems to me that, again, either the inspection was not done (at least not properly) or that the dealer was hoping to foist these problems onto an unsuspecting buyer.
I am troubled by this apparently endemic use of CPO designation as a smokescreen, and by what it suggests about the ethics of the dealers and Porsche North America... but I'm still going to end up buying a damn 911!
David G, It has become abundantly clear to me that CPO designation provides zero assurance re a car's condition. Both Cars A and B from this thread were CPO and both had significant problems; For car B it's clear that the dealer was aware of the problems and chose not to disclose them; for Car A I suspect that the CPO inspection had not even been performed. Regarding the CPO that you traded for earlier this year, surely a properly conducted CPO inspection would have revealed the issues that you describe, so it seems to me that, again, either the inspection was not done (at least not properly) or that the dealer was hoping to foist these problems onto an unsuspecting buyer.
I am troubled by this apparently endemic use of CPO designation as a smokescreen, and by what it suggests about the ethics of the dealers and Porsche North America... but I'm still going to end up buying a damn 911!
Stick with it, I've owned a few luxury / exotic cars and I've found the 991.2 to be one of the best platforms out there. It's a very complete package. As others have said it's a marathon not a sprint, setup some alerts on various sites like autotrader, cargurus and eventually the right car will come along. To put your struggle in perspective, I've been waiting 5 years for the right 2008/9 Aston Marting DBS in Casino Royale Grey, Manual, Leather / Alcantara Interior with White Stitching and Piano Black console for between $100-120k. I've inspected 3 in that time and all had faults but the search is part of the fun. Good luck!
Edit: Porsche NA Customer Service are very willing and able to step in if you have an issue with a dealer. The dealers covet their status with HQ so any complaints to 1800 PORSCHE will get you an immediate call back from the Sales Manager.
Last edited by davidgriffith; 10-16-2020 at 10:49 AM.
Buck, looks like it's time for "Door Number D", LOL. Seriously, the 3 cars you have described so far are very sketchy in so many ways that I (we) are glad you did. One thought from over 50 years of buying, selling, and enjoying P Cars is that the PPI should be way near the end of the process. What you are finding on these cars (at the cost of several hundred dollars each time) could/should be found out during a simple, visual inspection that any shade tree tech, enthusiast, friend could discover in 5-10 minutes. A couple of suggestions;
1. Do a deep, detailed Q/A with the seller. Make them do a specific walkaround and take 20-30 (at least) detailed, fairly close shots in good lighting of all panels, bumpers, wheels, tires, door treads, glass, interior/seat wear, etc. It's the easy, visible stuff that should be done and seen before the car goes in for a $$ PPI.
2. CarFax, Porsche VIN check with a friendly local dealer, and a RennFriend inspection can go a long way to take a deeper, independent look prior to any paid PPI. The seller wants to sell the car; if they are not motivated to assist, supply what you need (especially on a non-factory warranty or non-CPO car), I would pass. Especially on cars that have been for sale/listed for more than 30 days.
3. Private party, enthusiast owners, and cars, are usually your best bet. The number of buyers ready to stroke a check for or finance a close to 6 figure USED car are pretty slim. So dealers way underbid on the less than nice cars and then try to get full market value for a doggy car. The pristine, no stories, full history cars from private parties are the best option. With a quality car, and a cooperative seller, it is hard to go wrong and (to me at least) worth overpaying a bit for. And, usually, the PPI is a non-event. Of course, a DME Range Report on a manual car is required in any case.
Finally, I'm attaching a few detail pics I supplied to the recent buyer of a 997.s that I sold here on RL. These are what you want to see from a seller that is distant from you before you start signing up for PPI's.
Good luck, and I have a good feeling that behind Door D might be an A+ car!!
@WonderBuck Excellent advice from Steve. To his notes, I would add/emphasize (assuming the basic Carfax checks out with no accident history or title issues): "Buy the seller" FIRST -- have a few conversations, FaceTime/Zoom, and establish a rapport. Does he seem like a straight shooter, up front, accommodating? Is there anything that makes you uncomfortable in his/her answers? If you aren't comfortable here, I don't care how nice the car sounds - move on. You're spending good money; it's not worth the potential headaches and remedial costs and there are plenty of others. I have bought and sold many cars over the years, and I have never been burned by a seller when applying this first step. There are some great people in the Porsche community - find them. Private party, enthusiast owners are your best bet to start. If you don't yet own a Porsche, you can still join the PCA on a trial membership (I think $40), which is well worth it just for access to the classifieds section. You'll see some of the nicest privately owned cars listed there.
I also have a few other guidelines I follow: If the ad is in ALL CAPS, I automatically skip it. If the ad is written in one long, run-on sentence - I immediately skip it. If the ad says, "must show proof of funds before test drive" - I skip it. And one of my favorites - the higher mileage 4-owner car that seller has owned six months and says has "almost all freeway miles." Some may think these odd to follow, but they work for me.
Don't rush, be thorough and you'll find the right one. Best of luck to you!
Car D: It's another '17 C4S Cab in silver. About 15K miles on the odometer and priced just shy of $99K. No CPO warranty because it's being sold by a Mazda Dealer.
The online pictures look good and it's got a clean CarFax. I had seen the ad a couple weeks ago and had contacted the dealer, then, but they wouldn't agree to an inspection, so I passed. Noticing that the car still hadn't sold more than two weeks on, I contacted the dealer again, and this time they agreed to an inspection provided that I allow them to run my credit and made a $5K refundable deposit. Instead of jumping right into that again, based on advice I received in this thread, I had a friend who lives in the area take a test drive. He found to car to be in excellent condition. So, I arranged to have a formal inspection performed by the local Porsche dealer.
The inspection found the car to be in very good condition, needing only new front tires, a new spark plug, and alignment. I offered to purchase the car for the asking price if the seller would authorize and pay for those things to be done at the Porsche Dealer (under $3K). I assumed that they would readily accept that offer... but I was wrong. They were only willing to address the spark plug and tires (not the alignment) and would only allow the work to be performed at the Mazda Dealership. I declined that counter-offer and that was the end of it. The Porsche Dealer said the Mazda guys were there picking up the car within just a few minutes. Darn.
I'm going to try hard to stop shopping for used Porsches, for now. No longer enjoying the process. Thanks very much to all of you for your time and excellent advice, though.
Car D: It's another '17 C4S Cab in silver. About 15K miles on the odometer and priced just shy of $99K. No CPO warranty because it's being sold by a Mazda Dealer.
The online pictures look good and it's got a clean CarFax. I had seen the ad a couple weeks ago and had contacted the dealer, then, but they wouldn't agree to an inspection, so I passed. Noticing that the car still hadn't sold more than two weeks on, I contacted the dealer again, and this time they agreed to an inspection provided that I allow them to run my credit and made a $5K refundable deposit. Instead of jumping right into that again, based on advice I received in this thread, I had a friend who lives in the area take a test drive. He found to car to be in excellent condition. So, I arranged to have a formal inspection performed by the local Porsche dealer.
The inspection found the car to be in very good condition, needing only new front tires, a new spark plug, and alignment. I offered to purchase the car for the asking price if the seller would authorize and pay for those things to be done at the Porsche Dealer (under $3K). I assumed that they would readily accept that offer... but I was wrong. They were only willing to address the spark plug and tires (not the alignment) and would only allow the work to be performed at the Mazda Dealership. I declined that counter-offer and that was the end of it. The Porsche Dealer said the Mazda guys were there picking up the car within just a few minutes. Darn.
I'm going to try hard to stop shopping for used Porsches, for now. No longer enjoying the process. Thanks very much to all of you for your time and excellent advice, though.
Buck
That's odd that they refused on the alignment only. What's the cost of that <$500 on a $100K car? If they still have it in a month, going into Winter they will be more motivated to move it.
Not a bad idea to take a month or so off if you are not enjoying the process. I have found that Winter is the BEST time to buy a convertible Porsche. Be patient and you will be rewarded. Good luck.
Car D: It's another '17 C4S Cab in silver. About 15K miles on the odometer and priced just shy of $99K. No CPO warranty because it's being sold by a Mazda Dealer.
The online pictures look good and it's got a clean CarFax. I had seen the ad a couple weeks ago and had contacted the dealer, then, but they wouldn't agree to an inspection, so I passed. Noticing that the car still hadn't sold more than two weeks on, I contacted the dealer again, and this time they agreed to an inspection provided that I allow them to run my credit and made a $5K refundable deposit. Instead of jumping right into that again, based on advice I received in this thread, I had a friend who lives in the area take a test drive. He found to car to be in excellent condition. So, I arranged to have a formal inspection performed by the local Porsche dealer.
The inspection found the car to be in very good condition, needing only new front tires, a new spark plug, and alignment. I offered to purchase the car for the asking price if the seller would authorize and pay for those things to be done at the Porsche Dealer (under $3K). I assumed that they would readily accept that offer... but I was wrong. They were only willing to address the spark plug and tires (not the alignment) and would only allow the work to be performed at the Mazda Dealership. I declined that counter-offer and that was the end of it. The Porsche Dealer said the Mazda guys were there picking up the car within just a few minutes. Darn.
I'm going to try hard to stop shopping for used Porsches, for now. No longer enjoying the process. Thanks very much to all of you for your time and excellent advice, though.
Buck
Every time I get involved in a deal and it falls through, I look on it as a learning opportunity. Plus, things happen for a reason. If they were not willing to meet your requirements (and they don't sound too onerous to me) then chances are there's something else that you aren't aware of that will come out as the deal progresses. (FWIW: I paid $220 for a four wheel alignment at Porsche Tampa in December after they installed the MP4S on my C2.)
Anyway, there's always another, better deal just around the corner.
That's odd that they refused on the alignment only. What's the cost of that <$500 on a $100K car? If they still have it in a month, going into Winter they will be more motivated to move it.
Not a bad idea to take a month or so off if you are not enjoying the process. I have found that Winter is the BEST time to buy a convertible Porsche. Be patient and you will be rewarded. Good luck.
Yeah, that car is in Orlando. There's not really a "winter" per se. In fact, typically here in FL we see a significant increase in population over the "winter" (as in, November to April) as the Canadians and folks from up north come down. Dunno if the Canadian border is open yet due to COVID, but here in Tampa, I've seen a noticeable uptick in traffic and restaurants are filling up at lunch and dinner. So it's possible the Mazda dealer is hard on getting as much as he can assuming an increase in traffic with the influx of people.
The inspection found the car to be in very good condition, needing only new front tires, a new spark plug, and alignment. I offered to purchase the car for the asking price if the seller would authorize and pay for those things to be done at the Porsche Dealer (under $3K). I assumed that they would readily accept that offer... but I was wrong. They were only willing to address the spark plug and tires (not the alignment) and would only allow the work to be performed at the Mazda Dealership. I declined that counter-offer and that was the end of it. The Porsche Dealer said the Mazda guys were there picking up the car within just a few minutes. Darn.
After all you've been thru ( and spent), the car got a fairly clean bill of health, you couldn't negotiate with the Mazda dealer over 3k? Why didn't you tell him to throw a new tire in the back, knock off another 5 hundo, and drop it off at the dealer to amount, align, and replace plug at your expense. Maybe you like the hunt more than the actually having the car?
I expected more negotiation, actually. I even emailed the general manager and owner of the dealership trying to initiate such. The owner was kind enough to get back to me but claimed to only have the car marked up $2K over what he paid for it and indicated that he had local interest in buying the car as is for asking price.
Here's a final update re my first Porsche purchase:
I ended up ordering a 2021 C4S (photos below). The car was delivered at the end of February and I've already driven almost 3K very enjoyable miles. I'm very happy with the purchase.
I want to extend a sincere thank you to all of you that provided me with guidance. In addition to the useful replies on this thread, folks from this forum took time to speak with me on the phone and even visited sellers in person. I'm actually shocked to have encountered folks who conduct themselves so well, on the internet.
A fine choice. And that's quite the entry point to your first* Porsche. The 992 is amazing and I am sure that you're going to enjoy the heck out of it. Welcome to the family (even if you are going to be hanging out in a different water-cooled forum)
10-15-2020, 10:32 PM
