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8/8/20: Porsche Brk fluid at dealer was $16 + tax= $17 Castrol DOT 4 Porsche branded is $30-35 at the same counter! *Impressive 1 liter black can !
*not racing brk fluid ($80+(?)) So...Audi DOT4 is less than $10 (same stuff)
Advance Auto Parts has Pentosin DOT4 for $16, ggod stuff...
Last edited by Targat2017; 08-14-2020 at 02:26 AM.
Reason: addt'l info
1) All brake fluid has a boiling point, its listed on the label. What does that mean? When brake fluid boils its no longer works and you lose your brakes. Generally the more expensive the brake fluid, the higher the boiling point.
2) All brake fluid within a DOT Spec meets the minimum standard for that DOT classification which means if the car calls for DOT 4, you can use DOT 4 in any vehicle that calls for it.
3) All brake fluid is hygroscopic, which means it attracts water over time. When you add moisture to the brake fluid, your temperature rating is reduced. You cannot prevent this - it will happen to all brake fluid. Time = Degradation.
4) Braking puts heat in the brake lines, repeated hard braking such as on the track puts a lot of heat into the system. Regular street driving does not. So, for street use a high boil point is not necessary, you will likely never boil (swamp) the brakes.
5) Track driving is different, Short road courses with a lot of turns build a lot of heat with little cool off time, so high temp fluid is the way to go. Remember, if your fluid boils you have no brakes.
6) Because of the degradation of fluid over time, you see driving schools require you to have fresh brake fluid as part of your tech inspection prior to track day.
7) Two years change interval on street cars, Tracking a car? Should change it every four months or so..
1) All brake fluid has a boiling point, its listed on the label. What does that mean? When brake fluid boils its no longer works and you lose your brakes. Generally the more expensive the brake fluid, the higher the boiling point.
2) All brake fluid within a DOT Spec meets the minimum standard for that DOT classification which means if the car calls for DOT 4, you can use DOT 4 in any vehicle that calls for it.
3) All brake fluid is hygroscopic, which means it attracts water over time. When you add moisture to the brake fluid, your temperature rating is reduced. You cannot prevent this - it will happen to all brake fluid. Time = Degradation.
4) Braking puts heat in the brake lines, repeated hard braking such as on the track puts a lot of heat into the system. Regular street driving does not. So, for street use a high boil point is not necessary, you will likely never boil (swamp) the brakes.
5) Track driving is different, Short road courses with a lot of turns build a lot of heat with little cool off time, so high temp fluid is the way to go. Remember, if your fluid boils you have no brakes.
6) Because of the degradation of fluid over time, you see driving schools require you to have fresh brake fluid as part of your tech inspection prior to track day.
7) Two years change interval on street cars, Tracking a car? Should change it every four months or so..
@drcollie Thank you for this. I’m still a bit confused by this thread particularly the LV part.
Pentosin has two DOT 4 spec that comes up and I’m not sure which one to go with. One is 1204116 Super Dot 4 and the other is 1224116 Dot 4 LV.
i have that bosch fluid in my 2013 Cayenne S and 2013 911, and its excellent. Technically its called Bosch ESI6-32N. Excellent boiling points and 3 year life.
Last edited by mikescayenne; 09-25-2023 at 04:34 PM.
Why is anyone going with DOT 4 LV when the Porsche Service Manual calls for DOT 4? Is LV called for in any Porsche document?
And it is not like you can find a brake fluid specification in the Owner's Manual. Simply amazing!
i think its because the porsche fluid is the exact shape of the pentosin fluid and it says "Low Viscosity" right on it. That is why everyone gets the pentosin Super dot 4 LV fluid. I was going to get that until i found that Bosch fluid. The bosch fluid is also LV has better boiling points, and 3 year life (instead of 2 year for all other dot4 fluids) for the same price so i went with that over the pentosin. Picture of the porsche fluid showing the low viscosity:
1) All brake fluid has a boiling point, its listed on the label. What does that mean? When brake fluid boils its no longer works and you lose your brakes. Generally the more expensive the brake fluid, the higher the boiling point.
2) All brake fluid within a DOT Spec meets the minimum standard for that DOT classification which means if the car calls for DOT 4, you can use DOT 4 in any vehicle that calls for it.
3) All brake fluid is hygroscopic, which means it attracts water over time. When you add moisture to the brake fluid, your temperature rating is reduced. You cannot prevent this - it will happen to all brake fluid. Time = Degradation.
4) Braking puts heat in the brake lines, repeated hard braking such as on the track puts a lot of heat into the system. Regular street driving does not. So, for street use a high boil point is not necessary, you will likely never boil (swamp) the brakes.
5) Track driving is different, Short road courses with a lot of turns build a lot of heat with little cool off time, so high temp fluid is the way to go. Remember, if your fluid boils you have no brakes.
6) Because of the degradation of fluid over time, you see driving schools require you to have fresh brake fluid as part of your tech inspection prior to track day.
7) Two years change interval on street cars, Tracking a car? Should change it every four months or so..
Good post!
We have an article on our Essex Blog on this topic titled, "How to Choose Brake Fluid". We distribute AP Racing and Ferodo brake fluids. They have an array of options depending on budget and needs. One more point on the above...how high of a boiling point you need will not only be dictated by whether or not you're tracking your car, but also by what other brake components you have on the car. If for example, you're running a tuned 991T at Watkins Glen on the tiny stock discs, you're going to be pouring a tremendous amount of heat into your brake fluid. Conversely, if you're running one of our much larger AP Racing by Essex Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kits, you're going to be pushing much less heat into the fluid. Think of brakes like a chain...hot discs=hot pads=hot caliper pistons=hot caliper body=hot brake fluid. If you're running discs with a design that is highly efficient at shedding heat, the temperature of your other components further down the chain is going to drop. That means your fluid temps won't go as high, and as such you don't need as high of a boiling point on your fluid. If you're running an AP Racing caliper with ventilated stainless steel piston, less heat is going to make it into your brake fluid. Therefore, you won't need a fluid with as high of a boiling point. When all your brake components are running cooler, your brake fluid doesn't degrade as quickly, and you're less likely to boil it. We have brake kit customers who can surely get away with AP's lowest spec fluid, whereas we have clients with stock brake components who need every degree of boiling point they can possibly get.
The tracks you're driving, the length of track sessions, the tires you're using and how much grip your car can generate, your horsepower, your driving style...lots of factors at play which determine just how much heat you're going to generate with your brakes.
Our warehouse in Charlotte, NC is always stocked with thousands of bottles of the various brake fluids in the links above.
__________________
'09 Carrera 2S, '08 Boxster LE (orange), '91 Acura NSX, Tesla Model 3 Performance, Fiesta ST
Jeff Ritter
Mgr. High Performance Division, Essex Parts Services Essex Designed AP Racing Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kits & 2-piece J Hook Discs Ferodo Racing Brake Pads Spiegler Stainless Steel Brake Lines
704-824-6030 jeff.ritter@essexparts.com
I've been using ATE Type 200 in my 2017 Porsche C2S and my 2011 Audi S4 for several years without any issues, because I was tracking them. I also moved to Castrol SRF for the Audi because it has zero cooling to the front brakes, and changed the front positions to StopTech ST-60 calipers and larger discs and added titanium shields between the pads and the pistons. Zero issues except typical heat check cracking on the Audi front rotors.
I use Pentosin DOT 4 LV in my 2013 Audi Allroad.
The lower viscosity of LV brake fluid enables the ABS to cycle more rapidly which improves the performance of the ABS and stability control systems because a locked [non-rotating] wheel cannot provide any steering [turning force] and is limited in braking force to whatever is the sliding coefficient times normal force which is almost always less than the grip level when the tire is not sliding. [Electric brakes can respond and cycle even quicker! which surprises most people including most engineers.]
I can't understand the need for a LV brake fluid. Its not like I am driving my 911 at -40C or even 0C where one might need a Low Viscosity brake fluid, and even then.
If anything, I want a high dry and wet number for my brake fluid and the ATE Typ 200 is 27F higher dry (536 vs 509) and 50F higher wet (388 vs 338) than Pentosin.
Almost as bad as an oil thread, although it is a glycol.
08-09-2020, 08:26 PM
