911.2 GTS - thoughts?
03-06-2020, 06:00 AM
#1
911.2 GTS - thoughts?
Hello Rennlist! First time Porsche buyer here so all comments/criticism are very welcome. I'm currently flirting with: https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/d...3&source=email - the dealer said that they are happy to get me a 2yr CPO if I pay the full price. Here in the EU, it would be about EUR 3,500. I've also asked around from Porsche if they are willing to do any discounts on the similarly priced GTS models and the answer has almost always been a "no" or max EUR 800 - I guess I can't squeeze much out of this dealer either...
1. What do you think about this build? Do you see something vital that's missing?
2. Timing. Is it a good time to buy a previous GTS today? I have compared the prices between 911.1 S and 911.1 GTS and they have about the percentage-wise gap as 911.2 S and 911.2 GTS which in my opinion is a better approach than ie. comparing 911.1 GTS with 911.2 GTS (NA, new/old etc). This leads me to a conclusion that 991.2, in general, has gone through a price drop and 992 GTS release won't make depreciation curve faster for the GTS compared to base or S. I have also been eyeing an S model which is the reason why I'm considering this. Would you agree with this?
3. The question most of you probably don't like. Considering that the global auto market has been on the brink of a recession for years plus we have no idea what damage the virus is going to do bring I would like to go to the rabbit hole and understand how the used car market, especially high-end car market would react. I am not worried about the depreciation too much and not worried about buying the car and not being able to afford it, it's just the way I look at real estate or something as simple as a phone. I would simply love to get a better deal on everything
. There is probably going to be a difference between discounts for the new cars and used cars and what I've learned so far is that Porsche has been able to increase their new car sales during overall economy turndowns - if there is a Porsche dealer here it would be greatly appreciated to understand how will you guys approach to pricing used cars during difficult times, is there a general approach? And if anyone got any links etc. related to this - also greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
1. What do you think about this build? Do you see something vital that's missing?
2. Timing. Is it a good time to buy a previous GTS today? I have compared the prices between 911.1 S and 911.1 GTS and they have about the percentage-wise gap as 911.2 S and 911.2 GTS which in my opinion is a better approach than ie. comparing 911.1 GTS with 911.2 GTS (NA, new/old etc). This leads me to a conclusion that 991.2, in general, has gone through a price drop and 992 GTS release won't make depreciation curve faster for the GTS compared to base or S. I have also been eyeing an S model which is the reason why I'm considering this. Would you agree with this?
3. The question most of you probably don't like. Considering that the global auto market has been on the brink of a recession for years plus we have no idea what damage the virus is going to do bring I would like to go to the rabbit hole and understand how the used car market, especially high-end car market would react. I am not worried about the depreciation too much and not worried about buying the car and not being able to afford it, it's just the way I look at real estate or something as simple as a phone. I would simply love to get a better deal on everything
. There is probably going to be a difference between discounts for the new cars and used cars and what I've learned so far is that Porsche has been able to increase their new car sales during overall economy turndowns - if there is a Porsche dealer here it would be greatly appreciated to understand how will you guys approach to pricing used cars during difficult times, is there a general approach? And if anyone got any links etc. related to this - also greatly appreciated. Thanks!
03-06-2020, 02:02 PM
#2
US Porsche 911 sales haven't been as strong (-4% 2019 to 2018), and 718 sales have been even less impressive (-26% 2019 to 2018). The SUV sales have been strong and growing for some time.
Resale buyers looking for a specific model/options have to be flexible. When I was shopping for a C4, the market was very small and ended up ordering a C4S.
There may be some downward pressure on resales, one 991.2 I've seen on Rennlist Classifieds, a real nice model with decent options, hasn't attracted much attention, the owner has dropped his asking price at least twice.
I've driven the GTS models at the Porsche Track Experience in Alabama on two separate occasions and my own C4S (for about 9k miles). My C4S has very similar performance to the GTS, It's a 30HP difference. If you can drive an S and a GTS back to back, you can make up your own mind.
Keeping your choices variable, .1 to .2, GTS or S, will give you a larger sample to chose from (however, from my own experience, it may not be a large number). If you find a car that ticks most of your boxes, you should seriously consider a purchase.
The model you're looking isn't highly optioned but has the Sport Chrono package, PTV plus, Bose sound and PDLS+, which are good, no rear wheel steering that many want. Still solid options.
It's $104,066 in US currency, but then with your VAT 19%, $123,839.
A quick search showed US 2018 GTS models for sale ranging from just over $100k to under $120k. So yours would be towards the lower end. Luckily, we don't pay 19% VAT, where I live it's 6% sales tax.
It's up to you to bargain with the dealer, what's a good discount? Hard to say for the German market and numbers in the US vary and hard to verify. Some on Rennlist have posted you should try for 10-15% off on resales and 5-10% on new sales, it all depends on the parties' motivations.
Maybe some GTS owners will post opinions. CPO is desirable.
Good luck.
Resale buyers looking for a specific model/options have to be flexible. When I was shopping for a C4, the market was very small and ended up ordering a C4S.
There may be some downward pressure on resales, one 991.2 I've seen on Rennlist Classifieds, a real nice model with decent options, hasn't attracted much attention, the owner has dropped his asking price at least twice.
I've driven the GTS models at the Porsche Track Experience in Alabama on two separate occasions and my own C4S (for about 9k miles). My C4S has very similar performance to the GTS, It's a 30HP difference. If you can drive an S and a GTS back to back, you can make up your own mind.
Keeping your choices variable, .1 to .2, GTS or S, will give you a larger sample to chose from (however, from my own experience, it may not be a large number). If you find a car that ticks most of your boxes, you should seriously consider a purchase.
The model you're looking isn't highly optioned but has the Sport Chrono package, PTV plus, Bose sound and PDLS+, which are good, no rear wheel steering that many want. Still solid options.
It's $104,066 in US currency, but then with your VAT 19%, $123,839.
A quick search showed US 2018 GTS models for sale ranging from just over $100k to under $120k. So yours would be towards the lower end. Luckily, we don't pay 19% VAT, where I live it's 6% sales tax.
It's up to you to bargain with the dealer, what's a good discount? Hard to say for the German market and numbers in the US vary and hard to verify. Some on Rennlist have posted you should try for 10-15% off on resales and 5-10% on new sales, it all depends on the parties' motivations.
Maybe some GTS owners will post opinions. CPO is desirable.
Good luck.
Last edited by BSO; 03-06-2020 at 02:43 PM.
03-06-2020, 03:29 PM
#3
I’ll only answer #1 and state this is a great build. I had a .2 GTS and it was a wonderful all-around car. I only sold it because I thought it was too fast for my needs. Good luck with your decision.
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PGCEE (03-07-2020)
03-06-2020, 05:30 PM
#4
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
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19 4 GTS. Love it. I feel the GTS lineup is the sweet spot of the 911 models. If you like the GTS package and the price suits you, then jump on it. Here in the US, certain variants are not that common. 991.2 C4 GTS for the 3 years of production was about 648 vehicles. Other variants like Targa had much more production. If you like the car, then I recommend buying it. Finding another that suits your needs and desires might take a long time. Good luck.
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03-06-2020, 06:18 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Totally agree. Mine's an '18 GTS cabrio. It's a delightful, slightly raw car with extremely potent power delivery.
I can see the use for the 4-wheel-drive option tho, as I unstick the rear tires pretty frequently without really meaning to.
I can see the use for the 4-wheel-drive option tho, as I unstick the rear tires pretty frequently without really meaning to.
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03-06-2020, 08:49 PM
#6
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If you like the car, meaning it looks good to you and has the options you want, and you can afford it, buy it. As I say often here people look long and hard for a car they like and some dilly-dally and lose it to someone else - don't be that person in Germany!
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03-06-2020, 09:10 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
Thats the reason I bought the RWD. I mean what fun is it if you can throw the a$$ every now and then. Buy it and enjoy it.... yolo!
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03-07-2020, 01:13 PM
#8
Thanks for all the replies! BSO - I would be more than happy with a S, but similarly specced S would be only a fraction cheaper. Hopefully I won't be that person in Germany and I can post my own pictures soon!
03-07-2020, 01:20 PM
#9
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Before I ordered my GTS I was considering a S but when I added the options I wanted the GTS actually saved me money and looked better to me, especially the front bumper. The S is a very popular model though so one needs to do what I did in order to determine which model is best for him or her.
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03-08-2020, 01:16 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
I suspect that there will be a lot of price pressure if the European economy softens, which may happen. Porsche 911's are not typically daily drivers. People don't NEED them...they WANT them. I have similar concerns about the U.S.economy and my business which high-performance audio. With Coronavirus fears our numbers are actually spiking right now which was unexpected.
03-08-2020, 02:01 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
I was dead set on a TT/TTS but ended up in a GTS. A neighbor owned a TT who switched to a GTS got me to broaden my research. As mentioned before, the GTS hits the sweet spot, at least for me. I can't read Deutsche so I can't help you on the build but the GTS already comes nicely equipped and its complete package was what sold me. Everyone has different needs and desires when it comes to options so go with what works for you. I had a few must haves so I ended up ordering mine but buying one off the lot will get you a better deal. As for CPO, I wouldn't pay extra for it especially if you're thingking about modding your car.
In regards to depreciation, that's up for debate. Mostly likely, the depreciation will be pretty steep on a 991.2 as it is the outgoing model. As I get older, I tend to care less about that sort of thing. Decisions decisions.... consider it a blessing to have first world problems.
In regards to depreciation, that's up for debate. Mostly likely, the depreciation will be pretty steep on a 991.2 as it is the outgoing model. As I get older, I tend to care less about that sort of thing. Decisions decisions.... consider it a blessing to have first world problems.
03-08-2020, 05:07 PM
#12
I suspect that there will be a lot of price pressure if the European economy softens, which may happen. Porsche 911's are not typically daily drivers. People don't NEED them...they WANT them. I have similar concerns about the U.S.economy and my business which high-performance audio. With Coronavirus fears our numbers are actually spiking right now which was unexpected.
)I was dead set on a TT/TTS but ended up in a GTS. A neighbor owned a TT who switched to a GTS got me to broaden my research. As mentioned before, the GTS hits the sweet spot, at least for me. I can't read Deutsche so I can't help you on the build but the GTS already comes nicely equipped and its complete package was what sold me. Everyone has different needs and desires when it comes to options so go with what works for you. I had a few must haves so I ended up ordering mine but buying one off the lot will get you a better deal. As for CPO, I wouldn't pay extra for it especially if you're thingking about modding your car.
In regards to depreciation, that's up for debate. Mostly likely, the depreciation will be pretty steep on a 991.2 as it is the outgoing model. As I get older, I tend to care less about that sort of thing. Decisions decisions.... consider it a blessing to have first world problems.
In regards to depreciation, that's up for debate. Mostly likely, the depreciation will be pretty steep on a 991.2 as it is the outgoing model. As I get older, I tend to care less about that sort of thing. Decisions decisions.... consider it a blessing to have first world problems.
03-09-2020, 12:33 AM
#13
RL Community Team
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03-09-2020, 02:11 AM
#14
I drive a 2018 991.2 GTS cabrio in Spain. Its an incredible car and hits the sweet spot between the S and the Turbo. APR is due to release their ecu tune before the summer which will take it up to stock Turbo performance. The GTS has bigger turbos than the S so worthwhile to consider if you're going down the tuning route.
03-09-2020, 02:43 AM
#15
Drifting
The GTS really is the sweet spot in the 911 lineup, and that is coming from a guy who is currently on a 2000 mile road trip in his GT3 Touring (see my thread in the GT3 forum, if interested). The GT3 Touring is a far superior car to the GTS by all quantifiable measures but, to me, the GTS is the better daily driver and it makes for a great weekend fun car as well. I have one of each but if I had to choose one or the other, well...it's totally hypothetical...but I'd probably keep my 991.1 PDK cabriolet GTS just because it is so much more diversified than the GT3. The GT3 is always in beast mode. The GTS is far more nuanced. It should be noted that I am a hard-core naturally aspirated guy. Given the choice of keeping a 991.2 GTS and a 991.2 GT3 Touring, I would take the Touring 10 times out of 10. The more I drive my Touring, the more my GTS looks dispensable. It is nice being able to go back and forth between the two cars because they are so different.