My 911S compared to my new Audi E-Tron
12-29-2019 | 12:27 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 299
Likes: 56
Imagine right after WW2 when the USA had the P-51D Mustang, arguably the finest performing piston engined fighter ever made. Then the guys that stayed in the service transitioned into jets, the F-80 Shooting Star. A totally different aircraft, unlike anything they experienced before. And from that day forward, it was nothing but jets up to an including today. Sure, there are still guys that own and race those P-51's and there's a big, quaint thrill to them. A nod to an era gone by. Not boring, but its no F-16. Today I just climbed back in the tail-draggin', shakin' and bakin' P-51 after a couple of weeks in a jet. It felt good, but it felt old.
.
.
For those of us who have not chosen multiple vehicle ownership and take extended trips to rural or semi-rural areas, the limited range and charging hassle make an EV a non-starter.
Last edited by verstraete; 12-29-2019 at 12:56 PM.
The following users liked this post:
GT3FZS (12-29-2019)
12-29-2019 | 12:27 PM
#47
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 154
Likes: 92
From: San Francisco,ca
Until batteries technologies can move pass lithium, electric cars are a feel good option. Electricity is still being made by the old system in placed.
As a commuter car, it probably great. As a sport car, it’s missing soul. I’ve driven Tesla’s S dual motors, awesome torque, fit and finish is meh. After the initial excitement and novelty of the quick acceleration, it’s a now what moment.
True Electric sports car are still out of reach for us average Joe. Electric appliances, are just that..soulless commuter devices.
Maybe in a few generation, when all us ICE loving nuts are gone and electric cars are the norm..people will be excited for the next silent appliance, maybe loving how that new stator sounds as it turns on ceramic bearings.
Im glad we all have options. I’m stuck in the visceral feel of an engine roar and a beautiful exhaust screams up near that 7000rpms.
..and Kevin, there’s a reason why we love tubes amplifier over digital...same same, but different
As a commuter car, it probably great. As a sport car, it’s missing soul. I’ve driven Tesla’s S dual motors, awesome torque, fit and finish is meh. After the initial excitement and novelty of the quick acceleration, it’s a now what moment.
True Electric sports car are still out of reach for us average Joe. Electric appliances, are just that..soulless commuter devices.
Maybe in a few generation, when all us ICE loving nuts are gone and electric cars are the norm..people will be excited for the next silent appliance, maybe loving how that new stator sounds as it turns on ceramic bearings.
Im glad we all have options. I’m stuck in the visceral feel of an engine roar and a beautiful exhaust screams up near that 7000rpms.
..and Kevin, there’s a reason why we love tubes amplifier over digital...same same, but different
The following 2 users liked this post by SF Neunelfer:
Falcondrivr (12-29-2019),
verstraete (12-29-2019)
12-29-2019 | 12:39 PM
#49
Banned
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,467
Likes: 1,098
From: Southern California
After seeing the documentary on Volkswagon's cheating and the depth of their deception, using their engineers to design systems to fool regulators only to sell Americans DIESELS as CLEAN, I would easily vote Tesla if given a choice between the two on ethics.
It's been covered in another forum. And they deserve the prison time they're getting.
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/aut...swagen-n749406
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ine/698256002/
https://www.ft.com/content/ea192e4c-...1-584213ee7b2b
https://www.thelocal.de/20171222/vw-...s-us-jail-cell
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmu.../#4bbf729a4e90
12-29-2019 | 12:40 PM
#50
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 2,289
Likes: 976
From: Washington
There is no way around it... Everything we do today has an impact on the environment. Cars are just one factor in the undeniable problem of environmental degradation. Nobody wants to go back to horse and buggy. Nobody wants to live in teepees.
I am not opposed to EV's and I do think it's the future. However it's going to take decades to get there. People seem to forget about the more rural folks. We don't even have access to cable internet where we are! And we're not THAT far out of town.
But given the distances that we have to drive to the more major cities (even my most local Pcar dealer is 2.5 hrs away), I couldn't trust an EV to get me there. There just aren't enough charging stations for long trips where we are. I've seen the traffic stopped going though Snoqualmie Pass on our last trip to Seattle and wondered about the panic levels in the people with EV's.
The following 2 users liked this post by SConn:
GT3FZS (12-29-2019),
verstraete (12-29-2019)
12-29-2019 | 12:48 PM
#51
Banned
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,348
Likes: 1,151
After seeing the documentary on Volkswagon's cheating and the depth of their deception, using their engineers to design systems to fool regulators only to sell Americans DIESELS as CLEAN, I would easily vote Tesla if given a choice between the two on ethics.
It's been covered in another forum. And they deserve the prison time they're getting.
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/aut...swagen-n749406
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ine/698256002/
https://www.ft.com/content/ea192e4c-...1-584213ee7b2b
https://www.thelocal.de/20171222/vw-...s-us-jail-cell
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmu.../#4bbf729a4e90
It's been covered in another forum. And they deserve the prison time they're getting.
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/aut...swagen-n749406
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ine/698256002/
https://www.ft.com/content/ea192e4c-...1-584213ee7b2b
https://www.thelocal.de/20171222/vw-...s-us-jail-cell
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmu.../#4bbf729a4e90
12-29-2019 | 12:49 PM
#52
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,340
Likes: 638
From: arizona
Uh oh... The worms are free.
There is no way around it... Everything we do today has an impact on the environment. Cars are just one factor in the undeniable problem of environmental degradation. Nobody wants to go back to horse and buggy. Nobody wants to live in teepees.
I am not opposed to EV's and I do think it's the future. However it's going to take decades to get there. People seem to forget about the more rural folks. We don't even have access to cable internet where we are! And we're not THAT far out of town.
But given the distances that we have to drive to the more major cities (even my most local Pcar dealer is 2.5 hrs away), I couldn't trust an EV to get me there. There just aren't enough charging stations for long trips where we are. I've seen the traffic stopped going though Snoqualmie Pass on our last trip to Seattle and wondered about the panic levels in the people with EV's.
There is no way around it... Everything we do today has an impact on the environment. Cars are just one factor in the undeniable problem of environmental degradation. Nobody wants to go back to horse and buggy. Nobody wants to live in teepees.
I am not opposed to EV's and I do think it's the future. However it's going to take decades to get there. People seem to forget about the more rural folks. We don't even have access to cable internet where we are! And we're not THAT far out of town.
But given the distances that we have to drive to the more major cities (even my most local Pcar dealer is 2.5 hrs away), I couldn't trust an EV to get me there. There just aren't enough charging stations for long trips where we are. I've seen the traffic stopped going though Snoqualmie Pass on our last trip to Seattle and wondered about the panic levels in the people with EV's.
right. exactly.
OP says it all when he says he lives in D.C. metro area.
he gets subsidies for the EV, so true cost is unknown and OP gets all those warm and fuzzys from everyone around him for driving an EV.
the EV is an appropriate tool for a slow, shortish city commute.
as far as ICE vs jet metaphor, most general aviation is still ICE.... 6 cylinder horizontally opposed, air-cooled ICE, in fact.
The following 3 users liked this post by jfischet:
12-29-2019 | 01:21 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,651
Likes: 627
From: CT
you believe battery technology and volume undoes zero emissions from the vehicle? A vehicle that can be charged with the sun, and does not need to come from the grid exclusively? It's about 5 dollars of electricity to charge fully as opposed to 80 dollars in fuel. You think the manufacturing process undoes that?
12-29-2019 | 01:26 PM
#54
Advanced
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 68
Likes: 24
From: Sacramento, CA area
12-29-2019 | 01:27 PM
#55
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 2,289
Likes: 976
From: Washington
you're using language, "so much worse". Like gas vehicles don't require resources to construct and transport?
you believe battery technology and volume undoes zero emissions from the vehicle? A vehicle that can be charged with the sun, and does not need to come from the grid exclusively? It's about 5 dollars of electricity to charge fully as opposed to 80 dollars in fuel. You think the manufacturing process undoes that?
you believe battery technology and volume undoes zero emissions from the vehicle? A vehicle that can be charged with the sun, and does not need to come from the grid exclusively? It's about 5 dollars of electricity to charge fully as opposed to 80 dollars in fuel. You think the manufacturing process undoes that?
12-29-2019 | 02:16 PM
#56
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,192
Likes: 347
From: SoCal
I'm not here to bash EVs but it is the future that I'm not looking forward to. Teslas and other forms of EVs are more than a dime of dozen in my neck of the woods. It appears to be more of a fad than trying to be good tree huggers. I wonder what they'll do with those big batteries when they become obsolete?
The following users liked this post:
verstraete (12-29-2019)
The following 2 users liked this post by snake eyes:
hbear (12-29-2019),
verstraete (12-29-2019)
12-29-2019 | 03:05 PM
#58
Racer
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 260
Likes: 50
From: Plano TX
I have looked at the model S with the dual motors but im not sure about longevity and a low milage used example still approached 50k. If you buy a pre 2017 you get lifetime free charging. I am currently spending around 5500 a year on petrol for my commute. My work also offers free charging.
It seems from what I am reading batteries and motors are getting replaced in the 150 to 200k mileage range.
I would look at a model 3 but they have followed the current interior design trend all cars seem to follow today which looks like an 8 year old duct taped an ipad to the top of the dash board. The genisis 70 sport with MT would be a brilliant car minus this huge flaw.
So im down to choosiing between a 2018 golf R, 2017 wrx sti or a 2014/15 S4. I really wish electric was here at the right price range but sadly, even with 5500 in yearly gas subsidy it is not. I also have a 5KW solar array on my house so the fuel cost would be truly zero. If you have the money to help the environment for the environments sake, charge on.
It seems from what I am reading batteries and motors are getting replaced in the 150 to 200k mileage range.
I would look at a model 3 but they have followed the current interior design trend all cars seem to follow today which looks like an 8 year old duct taped an ipad to the top of the dash board. The genisis 70 sport with MT would be a brilliant car minus this huge flaw.
So im down to choosiing between a 2018 golf R, 2017 wrx sti or a 2014/15 S4. I really wish electric was here at the right price range but sadly, even with 5500 in yearly gas subsidy it is not. I also have a 5KW solar array on my house so the fuel cost would be truly zero. If you have the money to help the environment for the environments sake, charge on.
from your description a model 3 sounds perfect for you if you can make the numbers work.
12-29-2019 | 03:23 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 852
Likes: 602
From: Madison MS
Guess who will lose
EV cars are most likely the next big thing but at what price? All the current models are so so expensive. How much sense has it been to give huge tax credits to wealthy EV buyers? So the lefties that are pushing so hard for more super expensive EV cars will probably win out. Then they’ll push for more taxes and prohibitive fees on gas. The result of that will penalize the poor and the middle class who class who can’t afford the EV’s. Until they become affordable only the well heeled can be players. Not fair!
The following users liked this post:
verstraete (12-29-2019)
12-29-2019 | 03:28 PM
#60
Administrator
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,632
Likes: 2,251
From: Up Nort