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If Im not in the snow, why do I need a 4 or 4S

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Old 11-18-2019 | 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Russell
I cant imagine the scenario where I would be driving a 991 in the snow.
https://experience.porsche.com/en/ice
Old 11-18-2019 | 03:32 PM
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RWD all the way
Old 11-18-2019 | 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by aways
Actually, according the Porsche, the new 4S is actually 0.1s faster than the 2S at 0-60mph.
This would be an interesting real world test. My Hypothesis is that yes, with launch control the 4S should be able to shoot off the line quicker but for real world, or anything other than launch control I bet the difference will be nil or even the 2S being slightly faster.

For cornering at the limit the 4S would have some inherant advantages that would only be visible at the limit on a track. That being said... rear wheel steering would close this gap; probably. For mountain driving, the AWD guys aren't any quicker Actually, the GT3 cars aren't any faster either! When we knit these things, remember that contemporary cars are good enough that these differences are only noticeable on the track and the conversation for how 99% of us use our cars is just fodder.

In <991 the 4S did add some appreciated weight and grip to the front but the 991.1+ chassis drives much more like a mid engine car than a rear engine car.
Old 11-18-2019 | 06:07 PM
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i had a 991.1 4S and now have a 991.2 base. My current car is WAAAAY more fun than the 4S.

AWD launch control was a ripper, however...
Old 11-18-2019 | 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by garfunkle
This would be an interesting real world test. My Hypothesis is that yes, with launch control the 4S should be able to shoot off the line quicker but for real world, or anything other than launch control I bet the difference will be nil or even the 2S being slightly faster.

For cornering at the limit the 4S would have some inherant advantages that would only be visible at the limit on a track. That being said... rear wheel steering would close this gap; probably. For mountain driving, the AWD guys aren't any quicker Actually, the GT3 cars aren't any faster either! When we knit these things, remember that contemporary cars are good enough that these differences are only noticeable on the track and the conversation for how 99% of us use our cars is just fodder.

In <991 the 4S did add some appreciated weight and grip to the front but the 991.1+ chassis drives much more like a mid engine car than a rear engine car.
Yes. I think of my local PCA chapter and i assume most people have the desire to take their 911 to the track at least a few times, but that's maybe not the case. I'm always interested in a track and street balance single car. One which the limit and true behavior of the car is experienced. The 'one' car will never exist but a 911 is the closest it could ever get.

That said, this modern day Carrera T with no RWS tucks it's nose in on throttle-lift from about 40mph up. A pretty accessible characteristic that is classic 911. You'd never feel that in an AWD car. Or a car with rear steering.
Old 11-18-2019 | 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SeeForce
i had a 991.1 4S and now have a 991.2 base. My current car is WAAAAY more fun than the 4S.

AWD launch control was a ripper, however...
I think the .2's turbos have something to do with the fun factor!
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Old 11-18-2019 | 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Ceepe
Yes, and for most cars it's that way. I think of my local PCA chapter and i assume most people have the desire to take their 911 to the track at least a few times, but that's maybe not the case. I'm always interested in a track and street balance single car. One which the limit and true behavior of the car is experienced. The 'one' car will never exist but a 911 is the closest it could ever get.

That said this modern day Carrera T with no RWS tucks it's nose in on throttle-lift from about 40mph up. A pretty accessible characteristic that is classic 911. You'd never feel that in an AWD car.
I appreciate your perspective and I think you're right in many respects. I've driven many RWD 911s on the track, and there's something magical about that feeling when you hit an apex just right and power out of the curve. Hitting it just right in a 911 feels different from any other car that I've driven on the track.

I will say that I also greatly enjoy the AWD traction and the power offered by the Turbo and Turbo S cars, and the unique feeling that it offers. It's truly a fun experience, although a different kind of fun. Fortunately Porsche makes many variants of the 911. There's a butt for every seat. My car isn't a track beast, it's a weekend GT cruiser and mountain road carver. The combination of AWD, RWS, and an open cabriolet top makes for a different kind of fun. It's all good.
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Old 11-18-2019 | 06:32 PM
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Well said fellow AWD/RAS/open top owner.
Old 11-18-2019 | 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Ceepe
Yes. I think of my local PCA chapter and i assume most people have the desire to take their 911 to the track at least a few times, but that's maybe not the case. I'm always interested in a track and street balance single car. One which the limit and true behavior of the car is experienced. The 'one' car will never exist but a 911 is the closest it could ever get.

That said, this modern day Carrera T with no RWS tucks it's nose in on throttle-lift from about 40mph up. A pretty accessible characteristic that is classic 911. You'd never feel that in an AWD car. Or a car with rear steering.
The limits I am describing could only be exploited by someone with the skill of a professional Also, if AWD was the way to go there then the GT and cup cars would also be AWD.
Old 11-18-2019 | 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Dennis C
I appreciate your perspective and I think you're right in many respects. I've driven many RWD 911s on the track, and there's something magical about that feeling when you hit an apex just right and power out of the curve. Hitting it just right in a 911 feels different from any other car that I've driven on the track.

I will say that I also greatly enjoy the AWD traction and the power offered by the Turbo and Turbo S cars, and the unique feeling that it offers. It's truly a fun experience, although a different kind of fun. Fortunately Porsche makes many variants of the 911. There's a butt for every seat. My car isn't a track beast, it's a weekend GT cruiser and mountain road carver. The combination of AWD, RWS, and an open cabriolet top makes for a different kind of fun. It's all good.
The torque and HP on the TURBO warrant the power A 991.1 with the high revving 3.4/8 won't really need it. I don't think even a 991.2 really warrants it but that's just conjecture and an opinion at best. The TURBO also needs it for magazine racing and 0-60 propaganda that is needed to sell cars in the digital world....
Old 11-18-2019 | 08:56 PM
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This thread went way too far into the nerdesphere but thanks

Last edited by B Russ; 11-19-2019 at 03:39 PM.
Old 11-18-2019 | 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by SeeForce
i had a 991.1 4S and now have a 991.2 base. My current car is WAAAAY more fun than the 4S.

AWD launch control was a ripper, however...
Originally Posted by Bob Z.
I think the .2's turbos have something to do with the fun factor!
This.
Old 11-19-2019 | 01:55 PM
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AWD FTW here and I wouldn't want a RWD. It's all personal preference.
Old 11-19-2019 | 03:14 PM
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Two Words:

Do
Nuts

On e thing I disagree with in nicks video. You can CERTAINLY hang the rear out in a 4s... That being said, I never spun my 4S. Ive spun the 2. But WOT acceleration, the back end gets squirrely and its AWESOME.

Ill never understand drifting.






Old 11-19-2019 | 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by fastforddriver
AWD FTW here and I wouldn't want a RWD. It's all personal preference.
Your signature contradicts your statement

2014 Mustang GT - 5.0 Sleeved Liters of Twin Turbo'd madness.


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