JoeFromPA

Hi all:

This may be a different question than the usual you'd expect with cold weather driving and traction:

I daily drive a 2015 m3 (RWD, high torque, manual tranmission) in Pennsylvania. I put winter tires on (Nokians) and drive in snow. I have no problems driving this car year round, but what I've learned is this - literally 180 days a year in PA it is either below 50 degrees F, wet, or snowy. So 180 days a year, a high powered RWD car with 50% of it's weight over the rear axle is significantly traction compromised when it comes to acceleration half the year. At least this car.

As I consider moving to a 991 - likely, but not definitely, a 991.2 - I would want to use it the same way: Daily driving year round with appropriate tires.

My question is simple: With the 991s power outputs, suspension design, and heftier rear axle weight distribution....should I expect a similar experience in the cold or will the 991 put significant power down even cold and wet just fine in RWD.

I'm defaulting towards a C4S or similar but I don't want to rule out a C2S or similar if it can put down power well even in cold or cold/wet weather. By put it down well, I mean you can do 70-90% throttle in 2nd-3rd gears and besides maybe a tiny spin it hooks up well.

Thanks all,
Joe

Feld

Everything is a compromise, I would recommend the C4S since you are in pa. On cold wet roads the awd will help getting off the line and in 2nd and 3rd gears with lots of throttle it will keep you on the road. You are also giving up ground clearance with Car vs. BMW, just something to keep in mind.

computertom

I drive my base PDK car year round. Just put my snows on. Love it. It flies. Came from years of C63’s where I did just as you’re doing. Fun, but traction limited. The 911 is revaluation (even my RWD one) compared to my past front engine, RWD sedans with no weight over the drive axel.

I absolutely love this car in the winter. It is truly my daily, independent of weather, driver.

ShaunP

You're totally fine in a RWD 911. I run summer tires year round except when there is heavy snow on the ground.

JoeFromPA

Thank you for the feedback!

On ground clearance: The f80 m3 has a ground clearance rating of 119mm or 4.7"; the 991.1 (non-PASM) is.....4.7". PASM drops about .4"

So you are absolutely right, albeit it's not an enormous difference. I'm also wondering about breakover angles and what not.

JoeFromPA

Thank you! I'm down the road from media so you know our weather well.

I'm tired of my m3's traction control kicking in at half throttle half year around in 1st, 2nd, and even sometimes 3rd gears. The m3 is an amazing machine but it has so much torque and whatever suspension/diff design it just has a real problem putting power down in traction-compromised weather. I don't want to repeat that experience.

Bob Z.

Wow. you must really baby it in PA with summer tires in the winter since they are hard as rocks when it gets cold and they are not recommended below 40.

ShaunP

not really. i dont mash the pedal to the floor all the time, but the car is garaged and the tires are relatively warmish when going out for a drive.

if the car has been sitting at my office outside and it's been 20 degrees all day, then yea i will baby the car until i get some heat in the tires.

summer tires have more grip than winters in cold but dry conditions.

oolor13

I daily my C2S and swap out the summer tires for a winter set once the temperatures are consistently in the 40s or lower. I notice a significant decrease in performance on my summer tires with the colder temperatures. Traction with the snow tires is much better, even in dry, cold conditions due to the difference in tire compound. Even with just RWD, the snow tires along with the rear engine weight provide pretty good traction. Certainly better than my previous RWD BMW 3 series.

computertom

Further, I do not miss RWD front engine combos at all. I just wait for my engine to get up to temp, and then I have at it. This car is just awesome all year round. I feel for the folks who only take theirs out on sunny Sundays. They’re missing so much!

hbear

I have a 991.2 C4 GTS and have ZERO issues with traction up here in Alberta, Canada.

On Michelin Alpines.

spiderv6

Say what? I don't know why you think that.

I put winter rubber on to help me stop, not to help me go.

97supratt

I used to also drive a f80m3 stage 1 tune modified wheels tires. The m3 has a lot of torque down low. The 991 is easier to drive and has wayyyy more traction.

Bob Z.

Unless they have a motorcycle that provides more excitement (at least to me)? And here is FL there is no such thing as winter storage!

BlueNorther

You will have two enemies in winter with a RWD 991 / 991.2 , assuming you have proper winter tires:
1. deep snow: no car will do well when pushing snow, especially uphill. Less clearance in the lowered sports car. If you live where there is good plowing service, not much of an issue
2. salt. you have to ask yourself how you are going to feel subjecting a 100K+ car to the long term corrosive effects of salt over time. If you are going to trade in after 3 years, not much of an issue
Recommendations:
seek a car with locking rear differential (standard on GTS models, or cars with PTV IIRC)
downsize wheel size if possible to protect agains potholes etc (I ordered my GTS without RAS so I could fit 19 winters)

In the end I replaced my trusty AWD 3 series bmw for a 718 so I can enjoy a Porsche in the snow (and salt), and spare the 911 for the dry road days.