2010panny4S

I think that's what I have planned for my build.

And for looks, Billstien full coilovers, TechArt 2 wing with TA side skirts and Fuchs 20's from Rotiform.

Psorcery

That would be a keeper. 991.1 is an underrated machine. My '13 4S was on par with a C7 455/455hp tq as far as straight line acceleration. Pretty damn good for 400hp.

VektorPerformance

I can't speak for the others out there, but if you don't 'feel' a difference after installing our headers, we've failed and to do our job. Check out some threads where customers have installed our products; customer feedback is always preferred over the sales/marketing bs of the guy selling the stuff

Of course with a pro-tune as icing on the cake, power output goes up additionally.

If you have any questions, let me know.

Rennolazine

911 turbo. Start all over, lol

spdracerut

The IPD plenum is interesting... there are only a couple back-to-back dynos out there for it being used on 911 Turbo and now the 3.0L turbo engine and they show a good bump in the mid-range, but nothing above or below. One would think a component which improves airflow would improve it everywhere. Tial has their plenum out, which I saw Txgold has on his car. But no back-to-back dynos with that plenum being the only mod.

As more and more people are getting their cars dyno'd, I've observed the stock ecu and tune is extremely adaptive. I.e. once it detects you hit torque target, that's it. The car will dial back boost. I saw this first with the dyno plots of headers from Fabspeed (in-house) and Vektor(MotoIQ). Without a doubt, the headers improve flow, but both dyno plots show the torque curves are pretty much dead nuts even below 4500rpm and then gain on the top end. It just came to me, I recall the boost curve jumps around that same rpm too.... So anyway, my hypothesis the stock tune ecu is limiting torque to the embedded torque target below 4500rpm. The torque target/limit must be raised in the upper rpm half which seems to correspond to the boost bump allowing the better flowing exhaust parts (headers, cats exhausts) to show their potential.

Cosmo1 dyno'd his car stock, with many bolt-ons (intercoolers, headers, I think cat bypass), and tuned by Hydra. With all the bolt-ons on his base level 991.2, the car made a minimal (for the level of mods, in my opinion) HP improvement which surprised me. But as I'm seeing more info from more dynos and things, I'm betting he was hitting the torque limit and the ECU was dialing back the boost. Another point of reference is PTS-BRGs car. His car had headers, high flow cats, and exhaust on his GTS. He dyno'd with the Cobb Stage II tune and then pro-tune. The Stage II tune was done on a car with high flow cats if I recall. I think it's fair to assume the Stage II tune was optimized for a car with high flow cats. With the pro-tune, PTS gained something like 40whp around 5-6k rpms. So what I'm getting at is the true potential gain in headers is much greater than 20whp. But no one has done a back-to-back tuned car, and then headers with a new tune. To really uncork the freed up power from exhaust mods, a tune is required to raise the torque limits.

So.... uh, yeah, just some stuff to think about

SeeForce

so, headers can add ~20hp for ~$3000. Pure turbos are ~$5000 and suggest gains of up to ~80 hp... Anyone? So, why headers?

From Pures website:

Dyno Run 1 - Stock 991.2 Carrera on 93 pump gas made 341whp & 331wtq

Dyno Run 2 - 93 pump gas, FBO, & stock Tune Only Made 353whp & 339wtq

Dyno Run 3 - 93 pump gas, FBO with a tune stock turbos made 457whp & 479wtq

Dyno Run 4 - 93 pump gas, Pure Upgrade Turbos, FBO, and Tune made 536whp & 485wtq

SeeForce

also, could one assume with headers and turbos, there is another 100hp in this car?

garfunkle

The world is coming to an end... this thread has been up WAY too long to not have a lecture about the driver mod yet

spdracerut

Because the headers help the engine breath better. They are part of the exhaust system. And the gains shown woth the turbos is with the headers. You won't get that same gain turbos alone. You wouldn't leave a small exhaust with bigger turbos would you?

SeeForce

Good point. Header install a DIY?

spdracerut

So yeah, only 13whp with intercoolers, headers, and I think cat bypass (so more free flowing than high flow cats). My guess is the tune in the stock base Carrera is extremely aggressive in limiting max torque/power to make sure there's a power difference with the higher trim S and GTS. Note that the ecu learns and adapts over time. So a dyno right after bolting on a part will likely show big gains until the ecu adapts as it realizes it's way over torque limits. That said, even on stock tune, all the free flowing exhaust mods will make the car more responsive.

Hydra just tuned a GTS with cat bypass and it made 470whp. So same dyno and same tuner. Obviously, conditions not exactly the same, but at least the variables of the dyno and tuner are removed.
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1155...the-glass.html

So, base Carrera with ICs, headers, cat bypass made almost the same power (-13whp) as the GTS (which has two sizes bigger turbos than the base). The cars are rated 370hp and 450hp, so 80hp difference. The added mods of headers and ICs on the base Carrera almost makes up the initial power difference; so the headers (Vektor) and ICs (AMS) added roughly ~65 crank hp.

spdracerut

Tons of notes and photos in these links:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1102...ck-review.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1143...l#post15910449

PTS-BRG

SeeForce "so, headers can add ~20hp for ~$3000. Pure turbos are ~$5000 and suggest gains of up to ~80 hp... Anyone? So, why headers?"

First off, why the F do you need to pay $3000-4000 for a set of headers. Every single header manufacturer for 991.2, except for one, is priced around $2000 and they are discounted everywhere.

If you want to get the most out of your car, especially with a tune, then headers are REQUIRED. The overly restrictive factory headers are not very good and super heavy.
If you just want sound and a little power than just buy sport cats. If you want to open it up and get the car tuned, then I think everyone will agree that headers are really required at that point.

Also, there is no way to get bigger turbos and retain the stock headers either. So, if your point is bang for buck getting bigger turbos the answer is of course yes. But, you CANT go with bigger turbos and retain the stock headers so, you have to go the header route one way or another,

PCA1983

OP, you need to post pictures and buildsheet and warranty, so we can see what you have.

So i can only guess, but next up in my wishlist would be a Techart rear wing.

Hydra Motor Works

We have seen great power gains by adding both a set of headers and intercoolers. The intercoolers help a lot down here in south Florida. The most success we've seen with headers have been with the Kline and Vektor's. We actually have a 991.2 Carrera being dropped off today getting some Kline headers and AMS Intercoolers installed.