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I just drove a Carrera T and Carrera S back to back. I have questions...

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I just drove a Carrera T and Carrera S back to back. I have questions...

 
Old 07-09-2019, 04:13 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by raidersfan View Post
Interesting. I found the opposite; we owned it alongside the C2S.

Did yours have buckets? It felt so much more responsive than the GT4 with sofas we drove. It is a must-have for the GT4. The GT3 we drove did not have them, but if was another level of alive and even better.

997 buckets in the T would be great, as it would keep the back seats; that is my rationale. If one is going to buy a 2-seat 991, a 991.1 GT3 blows any of these cars out of the water for not much more money. I suppose if you want new, sure, the T with buckets might be an option, but a used $100k T vs a used $110k GT3? The local dealer recently had a PDCC-SPASM 991.1 and the suspension on that car is very good as well, but it is only a $65-75k car, vs a T at nearly $100k. To me, it seems like a marketing exercise compared to, as PFBZ said above, the C2S as the same car but with more power and better brakes for the same money.

That being said, T prices are dropping now that the novelty has worn off and they will probably fall back to earth, at which point they make more sense, in line or slightly below C2S pricing. There are 110 used ones for sale, about 85 new ones as well right now. We all know what happened to GT4 pricing when those numbers became available used. There is nothing wrong with the car: it is a great car, but not worth any sort of premium IMO, especially in the numbers produced. We aren't talking 997 Sport Classic here.
I don't find bucket's comfy but that is just me I guess.

I drove a GT4 with buckets and PCCB's and then another with sofa's. Both times I drove and compared to my 981S with manual, PASM, PTV, etc etc which I bought before the GTS and GT4 came out. In general, most of what I loved about my Cayman was the same in the GT4 and very little of what needed fixing was actually fixed. (mid range torque, gearing updates, etc). There was no way in my mind the GT4 was worth the money they were asking especially for a street use car. For someone that never owned a 981 Cayman, I am sure they might feel differently. For me, they just did not do enough.

Then I drove a base Carrera and thought it felt neutered, quiet, soft. I drove a T and loved it to death. Then I drove an S which felt better thank the base but I actually preferred the T a lot more. The T has a more analog feel that reminded me of GT3's I have driven in some way.
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Old 07-09-2019, 04:36 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by ClassJ View Post
The T has a more analog feel that reminded me of GT3's I have driven in some way.
(Note: I do not own a Carrera T.)

I will get utterly eviscerated if the wrong crowd reads this, but...

While at the track last month I had the opportunity to drive a buddy's 997.1 GT3. Felt small, nimble, and had great steering and response. My favorite car I've ever driven.

A few days ago I had the opportunity to pass through Atlanta so I called the PEC and asked if they could work me in even though no spots were showing as available. They hooked me up. I drove a Carrera T for 90 minutes. Again, I know this sounds crazy, but it reminded me so much of the 997 GT3. It was the same feeling of nimbleness, power delivery, and steering.

The nimbleness I get; that's the RAS. The power delivery I kinda get; the 997 GT3 and Carrera T both hit my personal sweet spot. The steering I don't understand. I have a 991.2 Carrera but would swear the T's steering is better somehow. It felt more analog and communicative than my Carrera. The only explanation I can come up with is I've never tracked my Carrera, so I've certainly never pushed the car or the steering like I did on the T. Don't know.
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Old 07-09-2019, 05:05 PM
  #63  
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Does your 991.2 have sport suspension? I found the steering to feel different between a sport pasm 991,2 and one with regular suspension. Tires are also a factor. I think Porsche continually tweaks the software for steering also but I don't know how often they have done it on the 991.2 versions.
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Old 07-09-2019, 05:14 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Riz View Post
Does your 991.2 have sport suspension? I found the steering to feel different between a sport pasm 991,2 and one with regular suspension. Tires are also a factor. I think Porsche continually tweaks the software for steering also but I don't know how often they have done it on the 991.2 versions.
Two excellent points.

My Carrera has standard PASM and is running on Pirellis. The T was on the (superior) Michelins.
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Old 07-09-2019, 08:30 PM
  #65  
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So I'm not a typical Carrera T owner, I was just in the market for a used 911 and didn't really have a strong preference besides wanting the newer PCM, GT sport steering wheel and the Sport Plus seats in the 991.2. I looked at every dealer's inventory in Southern California, and a there was a 2018 T with 4,000 miles on it for $92k, when most 2017-18 base cars were listed for $95k and up with more mileage. The car, which I wound up buying, was optioned with PDK, sunroof, Bose speakers, no RAS and 4-way seats, so obviously not the configuration that most Rennlisters would choose for a T. For me, it was a great fit because of the standard options, the wheel, seats, sport-tex interior and even the painted black trim made it feel a little more special than a base car.

CPO S models were much more. I saw a 2015 911 S with an original sticker of around 118k and 14,600 miles for $83,000 and was told they were firm on price. Four months later, the cheapest used S model within 200 miles of LA (according to Autotrader) is a 2017 for $105k with 5100 miles...one 2017 S with an original MSRP of 133k is asking $105k now with 20,600 miles. Mine had no CPO on it, as it apparently had been on the lot for 6 months (they told me and showed me, but no idea if actually true) and they wanted to keep the price down to sell it. Probably BS, but that's what they claimed. Anyway, it had 38 months and 46,000 miles left on the warranty, which is better than some 2016 CPO's and probably not that far off from what some 2017 CPO's have left, so it felt worth it even without the CPO.

As someone who doesn't have the "right" T, but didn't care that much in the first place, I can say that for my daily driver and only car, there have been probably 3-4 times in 4 months where I've thought to myself, yeah, I could use more power or more brakes. On the other hand, there have been many many times as a 6'2 215 pound person that I've been glad I have the 4-way sport plus seats and the smaller GT steering wheel. I've driven an 991.2 C2S and the power is amazing. But for a $13-20k gap in price (for my car) it was absolutely not worth it to get the S. Especially when most of them don't come with the Sport Plus seats or GT sport steering wheel anyway (and seats and steering wheels make a big difference in how you interact with the car). It does seem *a little* lighter than the S, but if you think of it as a regular car with a nice package of sportier/driver focused options instead of some special edition car, you can probably get a better deal on it than an S, because many dealer optioned cars are like mine, not the enthusiast focused version that seemingly most T buyers would prefer.

I guess my overall point is that people seem to argue that you should just buy an S instead of a T because they're the same price, and my experience is that if you're not looking for the enthusiast version, there are many more deals to be had with a T than an S. Maybe $13-17k isn't that big of a gap for most people here, but it certainly is for me.
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Old 07-09-2019, 08:41 PM
  #66  
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^^^ Great post. There is no wrong way to have a T. If it moves you, and you're a believer, than it is the T for you. Well done, Mano!

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Old 07-09-2019, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by S S View Post
^^^ Great post. There is no wrong way to have a T. If it moves you, and you're a believer, than it is the T for you. Well done, Mano!

Exactly...thanks!
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Old 07-09-2019, 09:53 PM
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You can't really go wrong with any 991.2. Porsche gives you so many choices that are all very good or great, depending on your intended use. Sometimes you find a great deal on a car that you won't necessarily spec out that way whether it is a T or S.
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Old 07-09-2019, 11:31 PM
  #69  
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I'd rather have a base 911 C2 than a T.
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Old 07-10-2019, 01:01 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by ipse dixit View Post
I'd rather have a base 911 C2 than a T.
How come?
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Old 07-10-2019, 10:42 AM
  #71  
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Default Not too sure about a 997.2 GT3 RS with the T...

Originally Posted by CaymanSinAR View Post
(Note: I do not own a Carrera T.)

I will get utterly eviscerated if the wrong crowd reads this, but...

While at the track last month I had the opportunity to drive a buddy's 997.1 GT3. Felt small, nimble, and had great steering and response. My favorite car I've ever driven.

A few days ago I had the opportunity to pass through Atlanta so I called the PEC and asked if they could work me in even though no spots were showing as available. They hooked me up. I drove a Carrera T for 90 minutes. Again, I know this sounds crazy, but it reminded me so much of the 997 GT3. It was the same feeling of nimbleness, power delivery, and steering.

The nimbleness I get; that's the RAS. The power delivery I kinda get; the 997 GT3 and Carrera T both hit my personal sweet spot. The steering I don't understand. I have a 991.2 Carrera but would swear the T's steering is better somehow. It felt more analog and communicative than my Carrera. The only explanation I can come up with is I've never tracked my Carrera, so I've certainly never pushed the car or the steering like I did on the T. Don't know.
I agree with this, that there is a certain GT3-esque-ness about the T. Maybe it's the lack of sound deadening, the increase raw engine noise, and the fact the car when pushed wants to lunge like an animal. For all the naysayers, is it a GT3? Well no. The engine doesn't rev that high (but higher than a new GT2 RS), it's not a race-proven engine, the control arms are limited in their adjustment of negative camber etc... but it is the closest thing to the GT cars that I've driven (997.2 GT3, 997.2 GT3RS, 991.1 GT3) and yet still quite useable on the street - some streets as the streets here in Vancouver are uber crappy.

I've always had in the back of my mind there will be a 997.2 GT3 RS in my future. Now with the T, I'm not too sure...

Last edited by Zeus993; 07-12-2019 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:05 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Zeus993 View Post
I've always had in the back of my mind there will be a 997.2 GT3 RS in my future. Now with the T, I'm not too sure...
That's the battle I'm facing now: 997 GT3 or 991.2 T?
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:35 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by mammothcar1 View Post
We're on the hunt for sure.
We found one that fit most of our wants, but the dealer kept delaying the DME report with many excuses.
Things that make you go hmmm.

Here is our wish list, in order of importance.
M/T - must have
LWB - must have
PCCB - love to have ( not many out there)
RAS. - nice to have

We've been checking Rennlist, Porsche and all the other usual places.
If anyone has a spec like this and interested in selling, send me a PM.
Thank you.
This car looks like it has everything you want (and then some), but it's not cheap.

https://www.porschenorthhouston.com/...AA2A98KS104060

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Old 07-10-2019, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Klepper View Post
This car looks like it has everything you want (and then some), but it's not cheap.

https://www.porschenorthhouston.com/...AA2A98KS104060
Beautiful car, for sure. Thank you.
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:40 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by CaymanSinAR View Post
Two excellent points.

My Carrera has standard PASM and is running on Pirellis. The T was on the (superior) Michelins.
Gotta have the Sport PASM I think, as well as RAS, if comparing apples to apples
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