Drove a GT4, Wow.
06-25-2019, 01:58 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
serious question - how fun would be a GT4 after 6hrs of spirited driving.
I have done 6-7hrs drives in the T and never gets tiring, its Jekyll and Hyde, you choose what you want it be at the moment.
I have done 6-7hrs drives in the T and never gets tiring, its Jekyll and Hyde, you choose what you want it be at the moment.
Last edited by Cyberbug; 06-25-2019 at 02:20 PM.
06-25-2019, 02:34 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
I can have more fun in less space, at lower speeds in the T than I ever could in my 981. 2nd and 3rd gear are far more usable. Short acceleration bursts, within the speed limits are a lot more fun.
With the GT4 or 981S/GTS gear box, I felt that most of the bottom of second gear was pretty low on torque. To get into the power band of the motor required you to be doing at least 50-60 mph in 2nd before the car would pull hard. A redline shift to third would happen at 83mph. This is not so fun on the street. (pulling on the highway and getting in one shift).
With the GT4 or 981S/GTS gear box, I felt that most of the bottom of second gear was pretty low on torque. To get into the power band of the motor required you to be doing at least 50-60 mph in 2nd before the car would pull hard. A redline shift to third would happen at 83mph. This is not so fun on the street. (pulling on the highway and getting in one shift).
Last edited by ClassJ; 06-25-2019 at 09:30 PM.
06-25-2019, 03:32 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
@stout Had a GT4 and now owns a 991.2.
I can have more fun in less space, at lower speeds in the T than I ever could in my GT4. 2nd and 3rd gear are far more usable. Short acceleration bursts, within the speed limits are a lot more fun.
With the GT4 or 981S/GTS gear box, I felt that most of the bottom of second gear was pretty low on torque. To get into the power band of the motor required you to be doing at least 50-60 mph in 2nd before the car would pull hard. A redline shift to third would happen at 83mph. This is not so fun on the street. (pulling on the highway and getting in one shift).
With the GT4 or 981S/GTS gear box, I felt that most of the bottom of second gear was pretty low on torque. To get into the power band of the motor required you to be doing at least 50-60 mph in 2nd before the car would pull hard. A redline shift to third would happen at 83mph. This is not so fun on the street. (pulling on the highway and getting in one shift).
2-4-5
3-5-5
It wasn't a deal-killer by any means, and it was perfectly fine at Thunderhill. I also suspect it's the right for the autobahn, too. But I ultimately found 2-3-4 with the 3.8 (and its very soft spot from 3500-5500 rpm on CA 91 gas) too tall for the way I use a sports car in CA…and then 6th was too short for runs down to LA, leaving the 3.8 unnecessarily noisy and thirsty. I'd love to try gears 1-5 + 7 from a 991.2, but that isn't going to be a cheap experiment.
The GT4 felt special every time I used it, but I prefer the 991.2 Carrera for how I use a daily. I like the the engine better, the transmission much better (GT4 shifter was better, but the Carrera shifts fine and its 2-4 gearing is superior for CA back roads while 7th is plain wonderful for long trips). I do miss the visuals of the GT4 from time to time, and it was definitely better on track, but I'm lucky to do a couple of track days a year in this season of life and the 911 certainly isn't bad on track, I find it to be more fun more of the time for the reasons noted by ClassJ and because the GT4's handling is so good that, on the street, there wasn't enough "challenge" involved. The first, second, and third dates are amaaaazing with the GT4, and I might have kept mine and driven it to 200,000 miles had I not needed back seats—but I also like that you have to work with a 911's chassis, even one as evolved as the 991.2.
We are seriously spoiled for choices right now, and YMMV!
Last edited by stout; 06-25-2019 at 04:00 PM.
06-25-2019, 03:38 PM
#34
Agree with the above, after 15,000 miles with a GT4 as a daily and then 16,000~ miles with the 991.2 Carrera 7MT. I remember thinking the gearing in the GT4 might be too tall in 2nd and 3rd on the Portugal press trip, something I wasn't alone on, and then noticing it ran pretty high on rpm on a freeway run, too. What I thought was a pretty minor issue given how good the rest of the car was—and it was VERY good—turned out to bother me more, not less, when living with the GT4 for two years and 15,000~ miles. I started to think about having a new shift **** made that said:
2-4-5
3-5-5
The gearing works fine at Thunderhill, and I suspect it's the right setup for the autobahn or those who can run at autobahn speeds—but I found 2-3-4 with the 3.8 (and its soft spot from 3500-5500 rpm) too tall for the way I use a car in CA, and then 6th too short for runs down to LA, where the engine was turning pretty high rpm with no real benefit on our roads. I think the fix is gears 1-5 plus 7 from a 991.2 7MT, but that's not going to be a cheap fix—and it probably wouldn't be attractive to someone who drives on the autobahn.
Don't get me wrong: The GT4 was a great car, and felt special every time I used it...even for a trip to the dry cleaners. But I prefer the 991.2 Carrera for what I use a car for. I like the engine better, the transmission much better (GT4 shifted a bit nicer, but the Carrera's 1-4 gearing is superior for CA back roads and 7th is plain wonderful for long trips). I do miss the visual "rightness" and aggression of the GT4 from time to time, and it was definitely the better car on track, but I'm lucky to do a couple of track days a year in this season of life and the 911 certainly isn't bad on track—it's just a bit soft. On the road, I find it to be more fun more of the time for the reasons noted by ClassJ and because the GT4's handling is so good that, on the street, there wasn't enough "challenge" involved.
The first, second, and third dates are amaaaazing with the GT4, and I might have kept mine and driven it into the ground had I not needed back seats in my daily—but I also like that you have to work with a 911's chassis, even one as evolved as the 991.2. I may be a mid-engined guy, but I got hooked on the 911's challenge-reward a long time ago. We are seriously spoiled for choices right now.
YMMV...
2-4-5
3-5-5
The gearing works fine at Thunderhill, and I suspect it's the right setup for the autobahn or those who can run at autobahn speeds—but I found 2-3-4 with the 3.8 (and its soft spot from 3500-5500 rpm) too tall for the way I use a car in CA, and then 6th too short for runs down to LA, where the engine was turning pretty high rpm with no real benefit on our roads. I think the fix is gears 1-5 plus 7 from a 991.2 7MT, but that's not going to be a cheap fix—and it probably wouldn't be attractive to someone who drives on the autobahn.
Don't get me wrong: The GT4 was a great car, and felt special every time I used it...even for a trip to the dry cleaners. But I prefer the 991.2 Carrera for what I use a car for. I like the engine better, the transmission much better (GT4 shifted a bit nicer, but the Carrera's 1-4 gearing is superior for CA back roads and 7th is plain wonderful for long trips). I do miss the visual "rightness" and aggression of the GT4 from time to time, and it was definitely the better car on track, but I'm lucky to do a couple of track days a year in this season of life and the 911 certainly isn't bad on track—it's just a bit soft. On the road, I find it to be more fun more of the time for the reasons noted by ClassJ and because the GT4's handling is so good that, on the street, there wasn't enough "challenge" involved.
The first, second, and third dates are amaaaazing with the GT4, and I might have kept mine and driven it into the ground had I not needed back seats in my daily—but I also like that you have to work with a 911's chassis, even one as evolved as the 991.2. I may be a mid-engined guy, but I got hooked on the 911's challenge-reward a long time ago. We are seriously spoiled for choices right now.
YMMV...
Also - the soft spot is almost eliminated between 3500-5000 rpm with the FVD tune on the 3.8. More so then with GIAC or Cobb.
06-25-2019, 05:18 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
^ Agree after 15,000 miles with a GT4. The gearing seemed tall in 2nd and 3rd at the Portugal press trip, something I wasn't alone on, and ran high on rpm in 6th on a freeway run, too. It didn't cause me to cancel my order, as it was a pretty minor issue given how good the rest of the car is. But, after living with the GT4 for a while, I thought about having a new shift **** made that said:
2-4-5
3-5-5
2-4-5
3-5-5
6th was hardly an overdrive. I constantly was trying to reach for a non existent next higher gear. The first half of the box was wide ratio, second half of the box was close ratio.
I miss my Cayman (2 seats, looks of the car). I don't miss the gearing. If I still had it the trans would have gotten a gearing swap. Its a fixable issue for sure (gears and tune). I was about to look into it before someone ran into it on me and killed the car but the car saved me.
The 981 platform handles too well for the street for very little effort if that makes any sense. Super composed. No drama. Flawless brakes. etc
06-25-2019, 05:40 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
I looked at gears and a diff for the GT4, and figured it would be $15k~ all in. You've got to be pretty committed to the car to do that, in my view—and the $15k seemed better applied to a 991.2 Carrera 7MT (mainly due to the back seats, but also for the engine and overall "rightness" and fun factor of the car on the street...at least for me), and I think the T is even a bit better still—as it adds some of the precision/focus lost in the move from GT4 to Carrera. Not that the latter is terribly lacking in either category...the GT4 is simply very precise and focused.
Ha. 4th and 5th are so close in that trans there is no point in hitting both at all. And 3 topped out so high pulling on the highway there was no sense in running through the rest of the gears, I always joked that it was designed as a 5 speed. I usually just hit 1-2-3-4-6. Usually 2-3-6 when pulling on highway.
6th was hardly an overdrive. I constantly was trying to reach for a non existent next higher gear. The first half of the box was wide ratio, second half of the box was close ratio.
I miss my Cayman (2 seats, looks of the car). I don't miss the gearing. If I still had it the trans would have gotten a gearing swap. Its a fixable issue for sure (gears and tune). I was about to look into it before someone ran into it on me and killed the car but the car saved me.
The 981 platform handles too well for the street for very little effort if that makes any sense. Super composed. No drama. Flawless brakes. etc
6th was hardly an overdrive. I constantly was trying to reach for a non existent next higher gear. The first half of the box was wide ratio, second half of the box was close ratio.
I miss my Cayman (2 seats, looks of the car). I don't miss the gearing. If I still had it the trans would have gotten a gearing swap. Its a fixable issue for sure (gears and tune). I was about to look into it before someone ran into it on me and killed the car but the car saved me.
The 981 platform handles too well for the street for very little effort if that makes any sense. Super composed. No drama. Flawless brakes. etc
All of them have lovely chassis and brakes. Just before my GT4 order locked, I thought about whether I'd have more fun on the street in a 981 2.7 6MT with X73, 19s, sport seats, GT wheel, PSE, etc...the last 981 I drove that was set up like that was seriously fun on the street.
981 GTS is also sorely underrated if one does more road driving than track driving, and is rare. Everyone ordered the GT4, as it was a phenomenal value proposition. 987.2 Boxster Spyder came close, but the GT4 finally got me off the fence to order a new Porsche.
06-25-2019, 06:02 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
The upcoming 718 Cayman Touring (name to be confirmed) with NA 4.0L from the GT4 is an intriguing proposition. It slots in between the GT4 and GTS and is a bit more street oriented than the GT4 and come w/o large wing.
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/05/po...er-and-cayman/
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/05/po...er-and-cayman/
06-25-2019, 08:27 PM
#38
Racer
Well, a bicycle is more fun than a 911. Even if they were the same price, I would choose a bike every time. There is nothing like the after-ride buzz of a hard 2-hour ride followed by a satisfying adult beverage. Or, that really hard 5-hour, 100 mile hilly century that gives you the 1000 yard stare but the good feeling that stays with you for days.
I am lucky to own both, but if push came to shove, it would be easy to kick the 911 to the curb and ride my bike every chance I got.
I am lucky to own both, but if push came to shove, it would be easy to kick the 911 to the curb and ride my bike every chance I got.
06-26-2019, 01:43 AM
#39
SJW, a Carin' kinda guy
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Agree completely, had a 981 before and have a T now and I find it to be a step up in every way other than sound. The Cayman was easy to drive hard, while It took much longer with the T due to the rear engine setup and resulting handling characteristics. I think the T is definitely more engaging than a standard 981, but I have yet to drive a GT4.
Fwiw, I do have my name on the list for the 718 GT4 but I’m honestly underwhelmed and don’t see any reason to switch. A .2 GT3 on the other hand......
Fwiw, I do have my name on the list for the 718 GT4 but I’m honestly underwhelmed and don’t see any reason to switch. A .2 GT3 on the other hand......
On the list for a 718 spyder, but I am not as focused as I was on the GT3.
06-26-2019, 09:13 AM
#40
The upcoming 718 Cayman Touring (name to be confirmed) with NA 4.0L from the GT4 is an intriguing proposition. It slots in between the GT4 and GTS and is a bit more street oriented than the GT4 and come w/o large wing.
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/05/po...er-and-cayman/
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/05/po...er-and-cayman/
Also - I'm skeptical of the engine. The design was for boost and trying to change compression for a stroker NA sounds like a first year gamble. You know there's going to be ADM on these but there's more than a non zero chance the engines have some sort go plague,
What does sound awesome in this engine is the opportunity for a 911 to stroke to 4.0 or the prospect of a 3.0tt to go into a 718 since they are getting so cheap.
06-26-2019, 09:33 AM
#41
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I've driven a GT3 and somewhat know what you mean; however, there was no way to drop the top so there is no way I could own one. The Spyder on the otherhand...
06-26-2019, 12:13 PM
#43
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Ditto. I put the word out that I would buy one at MSRP but received no takers, and I even talked to all of the dealers within a few hundred miles here in FL. I like the car a lot but I don't play the ADM game and besides, I really live my Targa GTS.
06-26-2019, 12:40 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
I am all for NA engines, believe me. BUT, I am not into emission tuned/choked, detuned powerplants. Time will tell what this new engine will do.
I was anti turbo six until I drove the latest 3.0 turbo engine in the T and I honestly can say I prefer the turbo powerplant to the 9A1 in every way except top end sound and "bark".
I personally think the Boxster Spyder will be the hotter of the two cars. Time will tell,
I was anti turbo six until I drove the latest 3.0 turbo engine in the T and I honestly can say I prefer the turbo powerplant to the 9A1 in every way except top end sound and "bark".
I personally think the Boxster Spyder will be the hotter of the two cars. Time will tell,
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stout (06-27-2019)
06-26-2019, 02:12 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
But they didn't fix the main gripe. Gearing....
Also - I'm skeptical of the engine. The design was for boost and trying to change compression for a stroker NA sounds like a first year gamble. You know there's going to be ADM on these but there's more than a non zero chance the engines have some sort go plague,
What does sound awesome in this engine is the opportunity for a 911 to stroke to 4.0 or the prospect of a 3.0tt to go into a 718 since they are getting so cheap.
Also - I'm skeptical of the engine. The design was for boost and trying to change compression for a stroker NA sounds like a first year gamble. You know there's going to be ADM on these but there's more than a non zero chance the engines have some sort go plague,
What does sound awesome in this engine is the opportunity for a 911 to stroke to 4.0 or the prospect of a 3.0tt to go into a 718 since they are getting so cheap.
Which is why I like the 3.0 + 7MT or PDK so much.