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I do have these carbonfiber doors but can really only use them for autocross in more unlimited classes. I do wish I could make a street safe rollcage. I am having a lightweight rear ducktail fabricated - it will eliminate heavy active spoiler .
….yeah I pretty much bought this to be my last Porsche and T IN 991.2 world was truly a Club sport Carrera. I’ve just taken it to where I wish Porsche could but can’t. Relatively low entry price for a new car when I ordered it, I ordered fairly bare bones to keep weight down with all weight saving options, I did spend money on lava orange as that was color of my first Porsche. I knew I could modify this car to be very fast . 600 to 700 hp pretty easy to achieve. Tons of room for big wheels and tires - I run 19x12.5 with 325/30/19 in rear and 19x9.5 with 265/35/19 front. I have no trouble putting power down now.
‘’I know I could lose more weight by changing seats but I really want to keep it looking as stock as possible and yes airbags are a plus in a street car. Sort of a sleeper 911. I laugh as the car is still california smog legal but it makes about 500 hp now. That type of power coupled with being under 3000 lbs makes it a riot to drive. One interesting note - in pulling insulation out of the back I discovered Porsche left rear airbags in even on rear seat delete cars. I haven’t pulled them yet as I don’t know how to disable airbag warning for those bags. But once I do even more weight to come out!
I still have about 50 lbs more I can pull out before it starts looking like a race car. I still have stock cats - one thing I haven’t looked into is if anyone makes lightweight flywheel and clutch for 9A2 cars.- debating on AC delete.
^ So cool.
Very interesting re: rear airbags with no rear seats. Trip on that, and wonder if it had to do with re-certifying a Carrera (would be interesting to know if GT3 and GT2 RS has them or not).
As for the item in bold above, exercise caution on lightweight flywheel and maybe study S/T very carefully. A good friend in Weissach wanted against LWFW in post-Mezger cars (so 9A1 and/or 9A2), noting something to the effect of you will love it initially on your way to a very big bill. Ah, and I'd ponder A/C delete very carefully indeed. The system is very light in these cars, is on a clutch IIRC, and sure broadens the use case. I'm as much of a romantic as the next driver, but it's a lovely thing for distances and/or hot days.
Data point: My T (manual, 4-way seats, RAS, Bose, no sunroof)) with a FULL tank of fuel (64L, 16.9 US gal, 14.1 IMP gal) scaled at 1470kg/3241lbs with all factory equipment such as books, compressor etc in the car. 101-105lbs of that is fuel. When parked beside my former 993 C2 manual coupe (sport seats, 18" hollow spoke wheels, sunroof), the 991 T is significantly larger in every dimension. It also has larger wheels and tires and has two turbochargers with their intercoolers as well as a water cooling system vs air/oil for the older car. The additional safety and other equipment is another factor. And yet when weighed in the same way with a full tank of fuel (slightly larger at 72L, 19 US gal), my 993 weighed 1440kg/3173lb. Recap in isolation:
1997 993 Carrera 2 manual coupe (sunroof, sport seats, 18" hollow spokes, 72L of fuel):
-1440kg/3173lbs
2019 991.2 Carrera T manual (NO sunroof, RAS, Bose, 4-way sport seats plus, 64L of fuel):
-1470kg/3241lbs
Is there any other car that has managed it's weight as well over that time frame?
Fantastic (and incredible) data point. Thank you for this, Timothy.
Crazier still, it wouldn't be difficult to get your T down to the 993's weight while losing little to no utility with just a few mods (wheels, battery, exhaust, etc).
Crazier still, it wouldn't be difficult to get your T down to the 993's weight while losing little to no utility with just a few mods (wheels, battery, exhaust, etc).
Spec it right from the factory, and you are already there. I'm at 3,165 with 1/2 tank of gas AND the addition of an AP Racing brake kit that added about 16lbs (road kit, not competition kit). I have a light weight factory spec - manual tranny, sport buckets with rear seat delete, no sunroof, base radio. Working against me is the heavier Sport Classic wheels and a full leather interior. Only light weight mod is IPE exhaust in place of factory sport exhaust. Regarding the full leather interior, the scales seem to indicate there is very little penalty for a full leather interior despite the that defense often used on the internet to defend the base interior.
I ended up getting a new set of RF scales . So much easier to use! Well certainly progress from initial 3074 lbs after I weighed with just lithium battery and muffler. I’m down to 2950 lb with 1/4 tank of fuel! …. roughly addition 125 lbs pulled. Car still has full interior, all stock body panels and AC. I also have bigger wheels and tires than stock with 19x12.5 325/30/19 rear and 19x9 with 265/35/19 front.
I’m happy that weight distribution percents stayed somewhat similar as I’ve tried to get weight off both front and back
Very nice, would love to see some pics and the true weight. Thanks for sharing.
Who makes titanium headers!!?
I was pleased to save 7.5lbs removing the "rear seat delete" beauty panel recently.
Porsche states that RAS deleted on the 992 S/T saved 14.33lbs
I really have a hard time believing the 992 S/T is 3056lbs with a full tank, when 991T's with all lightweight options are around 150lbs more. Porsche seems like they underrate their engine power but also understate their weight. https://rennlist.com/forums/992-gt3-...e-numbers.html
Not sure about titanium but Kline has Inconel headers for the 991.2
Third biggest opportunity, and more than 2x greater than #4 on the list, was the deletion of RAS. Which is half the reason, IMO, why RAS does not belong on MY PESONAL T. I see the T as the poor man's S/T, not GT3.
Exceptions would be if you competitively Autocross. Then the weight of the RAS is more than offset by the benefit to lap times. Perhaps if you time trial on track as well. But back roads and HPDE, give me the lighter version and let me, the driver, do the work of turning the car (the second half of my reasoning).
[QUOTE=jakermc;19304018]Third biggest opportunity, and more than 2x greater than #4 on the list, was the deletion of RAS.
All 992 GT's come with a lithium battery std now, so ST's lithium must be special to shave 3.0kg from the std lithium. My Banner that has been sitting in the garage for 5 yrs weighs 50.9lbs/22.95kg. My Antigravity 40ah weighs 15.45lbs. Saves 35.4lbs/16.1kg. Well over double the RAS delete
Third biggest opportunity, and more than 2x greater than #4 on the list, was the deletion of RAS. Which is half the reason, IMO, why RAS does not belong on MY PESONAL T. I see the T as the poor man's S/T, not GT3.
Exceptions would be if you competitively Autocross. Then the weight of the RAS is more than offset by the benefit to lap times. Perhaps if you time trial on track as well. But back roads and HPDE, give me the lighter version and let me, the driver, do the work of turning the car (the second half of my reasoning).
These are my opinions, yours may vary.
I find RAS to be very helpful in Autocross and slow hillclimb turns. I’ve looked at RAS hardware on my car and it doesn’t look like a huge weight savings to delete with a fixed arm. If I only did Track events I’d probably delete RAS but I deal with enough slow turns it comes in handy.
I'd love to drive a RAS car at VIR full back to back with a non-RAS car to see. I've only driven GT's with the RAS, can't say I notice it.
My first track car was a Lotus Elise back in 2008, then I race Ariel Atoms in 2011 and 2012.. Something about the lightness makes driving so much more fun.
I know this is a 991 thread, but it is interesting to see the weight of the 993 thrown in here.. I'd be curious to weigh my 996 just for fun.
@grantsfo - did you yank the HVAC system out of your car?
I'd love to drive a RAS car at VIR full back to back with a non-RAS car to see. I've only driven GT's with the RAS, can't say I notice it.
My first track car was a Lotus Elise back in 2008, then I race Ariel Atoms in 2011 and 2012.. Something about the lightness makes driving so much more fun.
I know this is a 991 thread, but it is interesting to see the weight of the 993 thrown in here.. I'd be curious to weigh my 996 just for fun.
@grantsfo - did you yank the HVAC system out of your car?
--Aaron
Fully functional HVAC system. Only thing I pulled was Bose stereo and put in oem radio delete shelf. I’m considering yanking AC as I live on coast in Nor cal but debating it with myself as I go to some hot hillclimbs occasionally where AC is so nice when gridded in fire suit on 100 degree day. 😂
‘’I was really hoping to get car down to 2800 lbs a\while keeping it street legal. I’ve found about 50 lbs more of easy weight reduction but after that its going to be tough with a street car.
I find RAS to be very helpful in Autocross and slow hillclimb turns. I’ve looked at RAS hardware on my car and it doesn’t look like a huge weight savings to delete with a fixed arm. If I only did Track events I’d probably delete RAS but I deal with enough slow turns it comes in handy.
Absolutely keep it in your car! With your car's intended purpose, I have no doubt the benefit exceeds the weight penalty. And you are competing, so lap time is the only measure that matters. Every advantage should be taken! To get to 2800, what do you think is left in your car? Carpeting? Interior trim on the pillars? Headliner?
How about pulling the headlights out during competition and replacing with blanks or gutted shells from a salvage vehicle? I did this on one of my race cars. I had headlights I used for racing at night but for day races I ran factory headlight buckets that had all the inner guts stripped out. The could be swapped back and forth in minutes. Modern day lights are fairly heavy!
I'm not a RAS hater, I just think it depends on the application. I have RAS in my Panamera Turbo S Sport Turismo and love it there. Wouldn't have it any other way. But that car is huge and it's biggest benefit is in parking lots. On the road at speed, yes it does make the car more nimble and feel like a smaller car. It's a little weird feeling, but the overall effect is a positive one in this car. But the 911 is still a small car and really does not need the help. If your 911 isn't stable at speed or you can't get it to turn in, check your alignment and driving style. Learning to master the handling of a rear-engine 911 is exactly what makes the experience so unique and special, I don't want to numb that experience. (Disclaimer: My first 911 was air cooled. I still drive a manual. I may be older than you i.e. old school LOL)
02-10-2024, 07:33 PM
