mdr911

Little recap - I recently picked-up (Nov) a 2019 991.2 Targa 4 and then went to PECLA - got bitten hard with the GO FAST bug and decided to jump into the track scene. At PECLA I was lucky to get a great instructor who was also willing to guide me for my first track experience. After doing some research I decided that I did not want to track my Targa for several reasons (worst-case scenario a total loss would be too devastating, it is a manual and I wanted to really focus on learning my lines and the track vs. shifting) so I was able to go on Turo and find someone who would rent me their car for the track day. (If you haven't used Turo - especially in LA / OC / SF - sign-up! 911's are a dime a dozen and there are even GT3s you can rent for under $300 a day - https://turo.com/c/joshuao406 for $25 free). The PECLA instructor also told me he loved 911 Turbo S as a track car - it has more than enough power, the brakes are insane, AWD is very forgiving and it works well from a new driver to an experienced racer (esp compared to GT3 / RS / GT2 etc).

I had to contact several different owners on Turo to find one that would let me track their car and I ended-up dropping $1000 for the day. But it was a Turbo S and I didn't have to pay for tires, brake pads, etc. First impressions going into a 2014 991.1 Turbo S Cab (40K Miles) vs. my 2019 Targa.

• My Targa feels a bit more "connected" when driving on the streets via the steering. Is it because it is newer or changes from the 991.1 / .2? The hard 40K miles put onto the Turbo S + it is a cab?
• The Cab was creaking hard
• The power is just not even comparable with the Targa to the Turbo S. 0-60 is sick. 60- Arrest & Impound My Car is even more insane
• The owner rents out the Turbo S all the time so it is clearly driven hard non-stop but still for a 40K mile high-end 580 HP super car it was very easy to drive, stable and never felt like I was in over my head
• Didn't love the wheel-based PDK paddle shifting. When driving with thumb's locked for track driving it was way to easy to bump the up-shift during aggressive turns
• Overall I don't really understand the Turbo S "Cab" as a model or daily driver. It's just so much car to not track it and use as a daily driver but as a cab with all the options you end-up with a car that doesn't reach its potential on the track. Again this is not to knock Turbo S Cab owners- the car is absolutely stunning and can out perform most super cars easily - it's just a bit of a beast as a daily driver. But that being said I can't imagine any other 580 HP AWD sports super car that would allow a track newbie to hop in and push it hard and not have any issue and then drive it home after 3 track sessions and not worry about brakes, brake fluid, etc. I you wanted to track monthly you would really probably only need to invest in tires.
• Did I mention the brakes are unreal...

As a track newbie here were my impressions driving the car on Button Willow:

• Having the right instructor was key - he was patient and focused on a few simple things to help me feel comfortable
• Starting in the Noob group also was key - lots of track heros ended up going home after the first session because they went into a more aggressive group and felt pushed around.
• First session- it was a very cold day. Took my time learning the track, lines and getting the tires warm. Kept traction control on and in "Sport Mode". Times were awful- I was breaking on turns that didn't require and just really focused on learning the track and lines. #10 out of around 13. Time: 2:39
• Second session- kept the car in Sport Mode and traction control on. Pushed harder- started to break later, some light trail breaking, light accelerating out turns and more coasting into turns I was previously breaking before. Time improved - #9 out of 13 with time of 2:24
• Third session - I was not comfortable enough to go into Sport Plus even though I knew it would improve my time as I would really only be switching between 2nd / 3rd and then 4th on two straight aways. I have been driving my manual for awhile and the position of the shifter was a bit of a problem (again I'm sure if I got used to it I would find it easier). I also kept traction control on but even pushing it hard this time I didn't feel it engage once. AWD will do that for you. Third session was when I was really able to feel comfortable with the track and the car. I was quickly waved on to lead past three of the cars I trailed in the previous two sessions and I was only braking in the turns that demanded it, hit almost every apex on the lines I entered and kept my vision ahead of my turns. I went all out on the straight aways and used the brakes hard and late - not engaging ABS but also able to brake much later than the other cars. Still avoided aggressive trail braking but was much more aggressive accelerating out of turns and maintaining speed into turns I previously was breaking before. My times were consistently in the 2:20 / 2:19 range with my fastest lap 2:18. I placed #6 out of 13.
• Final impressions: In my group I ran with people who like me were new but also quickly pushed lesser cars to their limits. One young woman was a very strong and comfortable driver but was driving a Mini Cooper. She managed to put consistent 2:20 times but the reality is the car won't allow her to do better unless she invests in better brakes, etc. I also drove with a tricked out 07 Cayman S that was posting around 2:15 consistently - again not a bad time but I'm not sure if the times were stuck because of the driver or the car. Many more advanced drivers pointed to the fact that in the right hands the Turbo S can easily get to 1:50's and while I didn't go out for my 4th session (it was a rental and I had already peeled enough tire tread off) I felt like there were areas I could easily start to accelerate through vs, coast through (the S curves and some of the other lighter turns) and if I put it into Sports Plus and kept it in gear for the turns my acceleration would be much smoother and allow for overall better times (probably ending around 2:14 / 2:15). The Turbo S is a dream car to drive on the track and with the additional stability of a coupe vs cab it would roll even less. The front tires just loved to bite if I aggressively accelerated out of a hairpin turn and there wasn't one "oh ****" moment in the car
• Also- while I mentioned the Turbo S didn't feel as "connected" when I was driving on the street that wasn't the case at all on the track. Most racers had track only tires, aggressively modded the cars for track days (wheels, tires, brembos, aero kits, shocks, etc). I showed-up basically as-is and by my third session was within seconds of heavily modified cars. I was def. performing well on the track and the Turbo S doesn't make up for bad driving or mistakes on the track - it is way to technical to just "catch-up" on straight aways - so you still have to know what you are doing. But the car doesn't punish you for being a new driver (from what I heard from other drivers the same can't be said for GT3s and cars like Lambo, Ferrari, etc). Also the fact that the car never engaged traction control even though I had it on an was clearly pushing through turns showed both the power of AWD and the car's capabilities.

Going forward I am not absolutely committed to buying a car just to track - I unfortunately can't afford a 991 Turbo S but am seriously considering saving up for a GT4, modified 718 or a 997 Turbo. Anyone with more track experience I'd love to hear your thoughts on a good track car. I also am seriously considering a Lotus Elise - one driver there was under 2:00 all day and bought his for $25K and added another $5 into it. I love those cars and how they handle- however I really want to keep it in the Porsche family.

Finally - one more thought- the fastest car that day across all classes was a 2009 M3 Sedan who posted a 1:49:579 and constantly ran in the 1:50s. Crazy.



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spdracerut

I always recommend a Miata for a first track car. It'll teach you all the fundamentals of driving quickly and the running costs are very low. You will mess up. You will break things. Better to get most of that out of the way when you're a novice on a cheap car. And with track driving, you have to be willing to write off a car completely. A completely stock ND Miata (2017 model year) can do a 2:14 in the hands of a good driver at Buttonwillow in the 13CW configuration. Just a super quick search, it looks like you can buy a Spec Miata fully built track car with cage and everything for like $20k. Depending on year of course, the one I saw was a 1999.

If you want to keep it in the Porsche family, get a 987 Cayman. Mid-engine is perfection, IMO. While the Miata is very good, the Cayman/Boxster has the superior mid-engine layout. You can get a 987 for a mid-$20k.

Dennis C

garfunkle

That's insane.

garfunkle

You asked for recommendations.... Get a Radical and call it a day.

mdr911

I can understand your joy when in that car- there is something amazing about cruising around and enjoy your day and then remembering to slam on the accelerator and feel the car take off. I would highly suggest tracking it once - enter in a beginner group there is a lot less pressure - I was driving the car at best 70% and never even engaged traction control and the only people I saw who had problems either didn't warm up properly on the first run or were trying to set lap records and pushing their cars past their limits. I've driven in a few other high performance cars including Ferrari, Aston Martin and a 996 Turbo and the 991 Turbo S was the most easy-to-drive 550HP+ Super Car I've had the pleasure of driving. I wish I was comfortable enough in the car to use Sport+ with the paddle shifters as the linear acceleration out of turns would have made the runs that much smoother. Thanks for commenting and enjoy the car!

mdr911

Can't say I am super knowledgeable about those cars- went on their site. Feel like giving me insights for someone that would be a monthly weekend warrior and is looking for speed, stability and relative ease of maintenance? Is one model better for beginners - intermediate?

garfunkle

Good street cars make bad track cars and good track cars make bad street cars.

If you have the bug and go with any frequency, the radical is not only more fun but will be a lot easier and <$ to maintain properly and safely. The sensation in even an entry level (or any used) radical is way more intoxicating than just about any street car. Driving a 911 Turbo (or any street car) vs a Radical is like having sex with 2 condoms on at once vs commando.