Wholly acorns and front end shutter!
01-11-2019, 02:20 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by adcampo
In follow up to LexVan. I'm at 32F/39R cold temp in the TPMS gauge.
01-11-2019, 02:49 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks all. I'm going to be tucking her away for winter soon enough. Got some plans to polish the paint, ceramic coat the wheels and some other little projects to keep me entertained until spring.
01-11-2019, 03:34 PM
#18
Timely thread.
I too was out at 8:00 this AM in RVA. Ambient temp at 28. No way around it, had doctor appt I had to go to. Driving on P0's with 14k miles so tread is not fresh on rears. I was very apprehensive but put myself in a position where I did not make sharp turns, heavy acceleration or quick braking. I have experienced cold weather issues before, but today was just fine. It's not something I do as common practice but beats having to keep another set of rubber on hand for the few times I encounter these temps. It is my DD but being retired means I can pick and choose my outings for the most part.
I too was out at 8:00 this AM in RVA. Ambient temp at 28. No way around it, had doctor appt I had to go to. Driving on P0's with 14k miles so tread is not fresh on rears. I was very apprehensive but put myself in a position where I did not make sharp turns, heavy acceleration or quick braking. I have experienced cold weather issues before, but today was just fine. It's not something I do as common practice but beats having to keep another set of rubber on hand for the few times I encounter these temps. It is my DD but being retired means I can pick and choose my outings for the most part.
back to your area soon. I would send a PM, but haven't figured out how to do that.
01-11-2019, 04:14 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
No Acorn effect here in Fort Lauderdale despite very cold temps even dipping into the 60s. Brrrrr!
Thank goodness for the seat heaters and heated steering wheel.
Thank goodness for the seat heaters and heated steering wheel.
01-11-2019, 04:34 PM
#20
01-11-2019, 08:23 PM
#21
01-12-2019, 03:49 AM
#22
Race Director
Is this thread directly related to the shudder I experience? My experience is when backing it sounds/feels like I am driving over a series of 4" diameter logs.
The first time it occurred I stopped, and examined the street for debris and the suspension for damage. Driving forward and avoiding sharp turns it would go
away, time depending on temperature.
The first occurrence was with a 2014 Boxster (Virginia)
The next car a 2016 base 911 was a little worse (Virginia)
Now we have a 2017 911S with RAS is the worst (even here in Florida on 50 degree days)
All with Pirelli rubber.
The first time it occurred I stopped, and examined the street for debris and the suspension for damage. Driving forward and avoiding sharp turns it would go
away, time depending on temperature.
The first occurrence was with a 2014 Boxster (Virginia)
The next car a 2016 base 911 was a little worse (Virginia)
Now we have a 2017 911S with RAS is the worst (even here in Florida on 50 degree days)
All with Pirelli rubber.
01-12-2019, 01:38 PM
#24
Pro
01-12-2019, 01:53 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Please, please, don't drive on your summer rubber when it's below freezing. Summer tires don't like the cold. Driving on them, or even flexing them, after they've been at cold temperatures 1) isn't safe 2) can damage the tires.
Tire rack says avoid letting them get below 20F even when stored and if you do then definitely don't drive on them until they've been warmed.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...jsp?techid=220
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...jsp?techid=273
An NHTSA bulletin tells the same story; although it looks like GM took the bulk of the heat, it's all the same rubber:
"Advise customers of these vehicles that they are equipped with a high performance summer-only tire that will have reduced traction performance at temperatures below approximately 40°F (5°C). GM recommends installing winter tires if driving below these temperatures. Avoid driving, moving, or test-driving vehicles equipped with high performance summer-only tires below 20°F (−7°C), as operating at these temperatures can cause damage to the tires."
Source: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...82862-5448.pdf
What does Pirelli say? Well - I had a hard time finding any clear statements from from Pirelli for a particular tire or compound - no surprise there given that I assume they employ lawyers. Maybe someone else found some obvious statement that I missed.
But, if you look at the language in their warranty they slipped up (leave it to the lawyers from one part of the company to look out for themselves) because Pirelli put this language in there:
3. UHP Summer Tires
"Rubber compounds formulated for ultra-high performance summer tires can lose flexibility and may develop random surface cracks at temperatures below 45F. Therefore, extra care should be used in handling tires below this temperature. These compounds are optimized for maximum dry and wet performance in warm conditions. Special tread compounds in these tires will have decreased performance, such as lateral and braking traction, at temperatures below 45F or when driving on snow or ice. Therefore, it is recommended to install winter tires in these conditions."
Source: https://www.pirelli.com/mediaObject/...y_Brochure.pdf
Be safe everyone.
Tire rack says avoid letting them get below 20F even when stored and if you do then definitely don't drive on them until they've been warmed.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...jsp?techid=220
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...jsp?techid=273
An NHTSA bulletin tells the same story; although it looks like GM took the bulk of the heat, it's all the same rubber:
"Advise customers of these vehicles that they are equipped with a high performance summer-only tire that will have reduced traction performance at temperatures below approximately 40°F (5°C). GM recommends installing winter tires if driving below these temperatures. Avoid driving, moving, or test-driving vehicles equipped with high performance summer-only tires below 20°F (−7°C), as operating at these temperatures can cause damage to the tires."
Source: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...82862-5448.pdf
What does Pirelli say? Well - I had a hard time finding any clear statements from from Pirelli for a particular tire or compound - no surprise there given that I assume they employ lawyers. Maybe someone else found some obvious statement that I missed.
But, if you look at the language in their warranty they slipped up (leave it to the lawyers from one part of the company to look out for themselves) because Pirelli put this language in there:
3. UHP Summer Tires
"Rubber compounds formulated for ultra-high performance summer tires can lose flexibility and may develop random surface cracks at temperatures below 45F. Therefore, extra care should be used in handling tires below this temperature. These compounds are optimized for maximum dry and wet performance in warm conditions. Special tread compounds in these tires will have decreased performance, such as lateral and braking traction, at temperatures below 45F or when driving on snow or ice. Therefore, it is recommended to install winter tires in these conditions."
Source: https://www.pirelli.com/mediaObject/...y_Brochure.pdf
Be safe everyone.
01-12-2019, 02:26 PM
#26
There was something published by PCA, PCNA or another semi-reliable source a couple years ago indicating that the caster settings
are responsible, and that Pirelli exacerbates the condition. Have not seen anything more recent to validate this info.
I should print more and rely less on on cloud sources.
are responsible, and that Pirelli exacerbates the condition. Have not seen anything more recent to validate this info.
I should print more and rely less on on cloud sources.
01-12-2019, 02:47 PM
#27
I know the acorn effect is a well documented issue. And extremely alarming if you don't know about it.
It's a really cold ( 20's) and sunny day in the DC area today, but I decided to take my 991. in for a hand wash at my local place. I pulled out of the garage and that front end shuttered and crunched like nobody's business. I can't imagine what it looks and sounds like from the outside.
And I realized it takes a good 15-20 minutes of light/moderate driving before the oil/water temps come up. On the other hand, the heated seats take only 2-3 which is nice. I also noticed that the shifting is much slower in all modes when the car is cold. I'm sure that's some cleaver German engineering.
Finally, the P Zero's are worth absolutely ZERO in freezing temperatures. Even after the doing some driving. My aggressive driving confidence on a cold day is pretty pretty low. I can imagine that thing calling some unexpected hot shoe out.
It's a really cold ( 20's) and sunny day in the DC area today, but I decided to take my 991. in for a hand wash at my local place. I pulled out of the garage and that front end shuttered and crunched like nobody's business. I can't imagine what it looks and sounds like from the outside.
And I realized it takes a good 15-20 minutes of light/moderate driving before the oil/water temps come up. On the other hand, the heated seats take only 2-3 which is nice. I also noticed that the shifting is much slower in all modes when the car is cold. I'm sure that's some cleaver German engineering.
Finally, the P Zero's are worth absolutely ZERO in freezing temperatures. Even after the doing some driving. My aggressive driving confidence on a cold day is pretty pretty low. I can imagine that thing calling some unexpected hot shoe out.
01-12-2019, 04:51 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
When I turn my wheels all the way (u turn or parking situation - low speed) I get what sounds like the acorn effect. It feels as if my car is hopping; very disturbing feedback on the steering wheel. Is that normal? Not weather related as I am in SoCal.
01-12-2019, 05:24 PM
#29
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Normal, happens to me as well.