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The entire 991 platform, wether it be .1 or .2 is the best we have seen. I prefer the power delivery of a NA, some prefer FI. Also, I would compare cars stock vs stock, instead of tuning capabilities. Once you mod, you can throw out any warranty. Again, that’s just me. This is just my opinion and preference.
Psorcery, I do agree that the bang for your buck, the 991.2 has huge potential, at a huge discount, compared to buying any top model 911s. You can save 10s of thousands and get the same, or better, performance.
The 991.1 was a huge success and competitive in the marketplace. Everyone loved it. The 991.2 just took the performance to supercar levels with all the easy to live aspects you could ever want in a sports car. The power, RWS, etc just really elevated the performance even outside of tuning potential.
I miss the old days at sometimes and have trouble keeping up with what's what now. I mean a 35K Mustang GT is not at what was supercar levels not that long ago. The Camaro ZL1, Vette, GTR etc. Sub 3 seconds to 60 being a common place now? That is just unreal! The pace of progress is a little overwhelming to me.
With regards to the 996 hate... By today's standards, it is lackluster but for the time it came out look at what was in vogue at the time. And by saying that the performance is lackluster.... well, it outperformed every 911 before it and nobody ever complained about the performance of any 911 when it was the new shiny thing. It's definitely far from handsome compared to any other generation I can think of but an 20K for a 996, they are a bargain - for now. Get em while you can. There is a 914-6 for sale at a dealership at the moment for 6 figures and tall 914's were considered ugly junk too
To me, the performance of a 991.2 (especially with tune and exhaust) easily negates the sound of a 991.1.
I owned several 991.1s and never thought I'd say this, but now that I have a T, I have to agree.
And I agree with your original post, too -- the 991 will be historically viewed as *the* iteration from the water-cooled era. It's only competition is the 997 (you can forget about the 996 and 992) but styling- and performance-wise, the 991 is on another level.
I owned several 991.1s and never thought I'd say this, but now that I have a T, I have to agree.
And I agree with your original post, too -- the 991 will be historically viewed as *the* iteration from the water-cooled era. It's only competition is the 997 (you can forget about the 996 and 992) but styling- and performance-wise, the 991 is on another level.
I know there are a lot of T threads already.... but the T proves that lightweight and driving experience > Power and specs. It is such a sweet package and it's one of the only cars I look at and think; I don't know if I'd mod anything on that car. Even a GTS I'd tinker, but not the T.
I know there are a lot of T threads already.... but the T proves that lightweight and driving experience > Power and specs. It is such a sweet package and it's one of the only cars I look at and think; I don't know if I'd mod anything on that car. Even a GTS I'd tinker, but not the T.
What would you change in a RAS and SPASM equiped GTS - the performance gap between a T and GTS is significant, would you reduce that? Would you diminish the brake callipers or rotors?
One has 550Nm of torque one has 450Nm. The T is a really nice Carrera, however it's a base with SPASM and the option of RAS - there is no disguising this. The T like the base, is nice enough on the street but after that it runs out of puff - the stock turbos are a real limiting factor to its performance as are the brakes.
The weight difference as measured from actual cars through corner weights is trivial - less than 20 lbs. If you want a light weight experience get a Cayman or lotus. It's pretty straightforward from my POV - a GTS with RAS and SPASM is much more explosive and more exciting than the very good T.
OP HP and torque are great if blended with a well rounded package, this is something Porsche excels at. In terms of performance HP/Tqe are a one dimensional metric - it's the integrated, reliable performance that counts.
The 991.2 series cars are indeed fantastic and the 9A2 has proved extremely reliable non the less Porsche has modified the fuel injection, intercoolers and boost levels in the 992. This tells me there are real limits to the 9A2 in the 991.2 series. Indeed the 992 GTS will not exceed 550Nm torque although it will run to 475HP.
In my experience whilst tuning and modding is fun, it turns into a mixed bag when you want to run the cars at the top of the green for any extended time. Effective delivery of performance is pivotal to how a Porsche behaves. BOP.
Best bang for your buck? Not so sure that's the case - I'd agree the engine is a peach everything else relative. My favourite Porsches are the 996 II GT3 and 981 GTS - in my view they are great bang for buck in terms of overall experience. The 991.2 GTS is phenomenal for a Carrera - not so sure that means best bang for buck 😀 (Disclosure - owner of a 991.2 GTS).
What would you change in a RAS and SPASM equiped GTS - the performance gap between a T and GTS is significant, would you reduce that? One has 550Nm of torque one has 450Nm. The T is a really nice Carrera, the reality is it's a base with SPASM and the option of RAS. The T like the base, is nice enough on the street but after that it runs out of puff - the stock turbos are a real limiting factor to its performance as are the brakes. The weight difference as measured from actual cars through corner weights is trivial - less than 20 lbs. If you want a light weight experience get a Cayman or lotus.
On the GTS, I'd do a full exhaust with headers and cats. Maybe a teacart or club sport wing. Filters. Plenum. Aquamist.
The T is just a perfectly sweet spot driver car. I'll grossly exaggerate to make a point... Which would be faster and more fun to drive on the street? A 6,000hp car or a 7,200hp car? I mean, with the shorter gearing a manual T will give a manual GTS a good run to 60 and even then I believe whichever driver won would win in either car against that loser. The power delta between a T and a GTS essentially doesn't matter until "arrest me" speeds. Also, who the hell is everyone racing that matters or at all that they need so much on the street? It's as if we're in a post apocalypse and we need some super dooper car to outrun something all the time and just in case. Don't get me wrong, I too am guilty of this. I bet if you logged the speed of 1,000 - 996 cars(including acceleration) and 1,000 991.2 cars for a year the speed and acceleration wouldn't be different enough to matter. I'd rather just drive something really balanced and fun. In saying this, I do understand that to some, making big power is a rush and I'm not judging. I've been there and had fun doing it. This is just a collaborative discussion where it's interesting to read about the diversity of how people enjoy 911's so differently.
Great points if I may say so; however, I will add that it has to look good as well, and provide an experience that is different from what most other vehicles offer, which is why a manual, drop-top 911 will always be my only choice.
Great points if I may say so; however, I will add that it has to look good as well, and provide an experience that is different from what most other vehicles offer, which is why a manual, drop-top 911 will always be my only choice.
Admittedly the coupe looks better but yes, I "have" to have a drop top also. The 991 is by leaps and bounds the best 911 drop top ever both in terms of looks and stiffness. The 992 looks like a hunchback troll to me...
I know people often complain about Rennlist and the value threads or the "this is better than that" threads, however I find them entertaining as there's never a right answer. We as Porsche owners are so all over the map its not funny...even my 911 ownership has been all over the place.
I've had 997 Carrera's, Carrera 4's, and 991 Carreras and one 991.2 GT3. Loved every car. Was one better than the other? yes. But my overall favorite is my current Carrera T due to its Jeckyl and Hyde personality. I've not yet been able to fully embrace the Sport + feature having a set of Michelin Alpin 4s on it at present and low temps but the few times I have played with it I figured I was going to roast my winters to shreds. I loved my 991 Carreras as they are the best bang for the buck; cheaper than other models and easily re sellable. But the low end grunt of the 3.0L turbo engine is wonderful especially on twisty roads or in the city. I only put 700kms on my GT3 before I sold it and already I feel the Carrera T is the better all round driver. If I were tracking the car then hands down the GT3 is the car to ring out at the track. As my 911's are my daily driver and having the buckets on the GT3 meant it wasn't a pleasant car to drive daily. Maybe in hindsight I should have spec'd a GT3 Touring with 4 or 18-way seats...? But I digress.
What I think lacks on Rennlist is a bunch of guys who drive each others cars. We have a group of friends here in Toronto Canada that each spring do the Toronto to Hershey PA Swap Meet drive and its notoriously fun. Fun because we all swap cars...get a feel for each others car and that's the bliss of Porsche ownership. Two years ago I didn't have a 911 to take down and rode shotgun in my buddies 997.1 C4S and guess what? I loved it. Never was a fan of Convertibles but now I can see myself possibly owning one in the future if my disposable income allows for such. I'm an open air guy as each of my 911's had to have a sunroof. I encourage other Rennlist members to reach out to buddies and take a turn in their car...it provides a perspective you don't get reading Rennlist.
What I think lacks on Rennlist is a bunch of guys who drive each others cars. We have a group of friends here in Toronto Canada that each spring do the Toronto to Hershey PA Swap Meet drive and its notoriously fun. Fun because we all swap cars...get a feel for each others car and that's the bliss of Porsche ownership. Two years ago I didn't have a 911 to take down and rode shotgun in my buddies 997.1 C4S and guess what? I loved it. Never was a fan of Convertibles but now I can see myself possibly owning one in the future if my disposable income allows for such. I'm an open air guy as each of my 911's had to have a sunroof. I encourage other Rennlist members to reach out to buddies and take a turn in their car...it provides a perspective you don't get reading Rennlist.
You make a good point. I have wondered that, but then so many have owned multiples like I have. I always drive friends Porsches and I have a unique relationship with my dealer where he lets me come up and drive whatever I want when my car is being serviced. I also do paint correction and ceramic coating for them so this allows me to drive them the 160 mile round trip to my house and back. I've owned four Boxsters but no Caymans however I have test drove them a lot and recently I had a 2015 Cayman S that I corrected, they are wonderful cars, sure the 2017s and up four bangers are beasts but the 2015 is really special (a good bang for buck). I would enjoy having one next to my 991.2 S but the Cayenne is occupying that space.
I will admit that, generally speaking, I don't like turbos -- except maybe with diesels. I don't like my wife's '16 F80 M3, especially on the track -- mainly because I can tell there's a turbo (well, two of them) due to the lag. I do, however, love my '16 535d -- the combination of diesel low-end torque and the turbo is seamless. There's just grunt basically everywhere in the RPM range.
So, I have been a "I hate the 991.2 non-GT cars because they have turbos" person. Oh, also, I have looked down on PDK drivers, too.
I'm here to recant...
I drove a base '17 Carrera (with PDK) at a Laguna Seca track day last month. Six sessions in the top group, pushing pretty hard all day. I simply forgot the car had a turbo. Honestly. And, I track NA cars a lot. VIR, Summit, NJMP, etc.
Oh, the PDK is great on the track, BTW.
The car took everything I gave it and didn't complain a bit, let alone break.
I'm a believer.
I'm not getting rid of my GT4, GT3, etc., but the 991.2 is a Porsche, through and through.
01-10-2019, 08:32 AM
