2016 GTS/2018GTS
11-16-2018, 10:04 PM
#46
Burning Brakes
IMO "Different Universes" is 991.1 and 991.2 with respect to their corresponding driving fun. They are both fun to drive, but they must be driven differently to enjoy. Somehow I like 991.1 proposition more. But I would not go as far as to say that the one is better than the other.
As for the value, I have tough time finding a 991.1 GTS with MT in CA in a condition I like no matter the price, and the ones I seriously looked at were $120K for '15 with 10K or so miles..
As for the value, I have tough time finding a 991.1 GTS with MT in CA in a condition I like no matter the price, and the ones I seriously looked at were $120K for '15 with 10K or so miles..
11-16-2018, 10:18 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
Sound isn’t something that can be inherently “fixed.” Louder isn’t our only complaint. That ghastly Jetsons turbo whistle can’t be silenced either. I don’t want to have to rip the cats out of my modern 911 and turn it into a brain-cell swallowing toxic vessel that pollutes and smells like a 70’s pickup, just for moderately louder sound. I’ve heard a .2 with that setup and imo it still sounded far off a .1 with basic PSE.
And 911’s with less tech ALWAYS do better in resale. The last of the N/A breed renders it a legend in its own right, whether that aligns with your viewpoints or not. And there isn’t any guessing needed. .1’s went UP in value after .2’s came out and have held extremely steady since then. So much so that in many cases, older .1’s are selling for nearly as much, if in even a couple cases even more than equal model .2’s who have been fundamentally depreciating more.
Lol. Nah. “Different universes” is a hilarious overstatement. “Different universes” is a .1 vs a 720S. In the real world, and even track, the differences aren’t that massive. And largely overstated by some. 0-60 is about .5 faster on a .2 of equal model. Same as the 1/4 mile. The fastest trap speed I’ve seen from a PDK/S/C hardtop .1 base is 115 MPH. From an equal .2 base? 118 MPH. One magazine tested .1 and .2 vert manuals (on different occasions) and their trap speed difference was 3-4 MPH as well. Faster, yes, but especially in real world conditions, not a “huge” difference.
As for Ring times, the .1 S PDK did a 7:37.9 and the .2 S PDK did a 7:34. A measly 3.9 seconds on that massive track. The same driver in the PDK .2 S did a 7:41 in a .GT4.... manual. Which is slower than a PDK .1 S. Again, not a huge difference.
Buddy has a 911.2. Driven both..Love both. But for 3.9 seconds on the Ring for nearly 30K USD? Really?
Just do it if it keeps you up at night.
Last edited by phefner; 11-16-2018 at 10:19 PM. Reason: Edicate
11-16-2018, 10:27 PM
#48
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200 cell high-flow cats do not pollute that much more than the stock cats and they do not smell like a 70’s pickup...where are you getting this stuff from?! Did you buy a warehouse full of .1s that you are trying to convince people to buy?! For the $2k installed it is going to cost me for "bolt-on" high-flow cats I will be very happy with the sound, no smell and gobs of torque. If someone is in the market they should drive both and decide for themselves - I used to love driving my '08 Boxster S but I love to drive my '19 Targa GTS a lot more, and I drove a '16 GTS before I decided.
11-16-2018, 10:39 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
Won't address the immature talk.
But will say i loved my 991.1 C2S for years and thought it's NA 3.8 L was the best, until i drove a loaded 991.2 limited edition C2S with bigger brakes, all my wishlist options, plus the limited edition included RAS and PDCC. I immediately realized how much better the 991.2 was. So i bought it. My next move was to add the 450 Hp 405 ft-lb X51 PowerKit (dealer installation), and i have never looked back. This 911 is totally awesome, waaay beyond my imaginable expectations, when driving my 991.1 C2S!
But will say i loved my 991.1 C2S for years and thought it's NA 3.8 L was the best, until i drove a loaded 991.2 limited edition C2S with bigger brakes, all my wishlist options, plus the limited edition included RAS and PDCC. I immediately realized how much better the 991.2 was. So i bought it. My next move was to add the 450 Hp 405 ft-lb X51 PowerKit (dealer installation), and i have never looked back. This 911 is totally awesome, waaay beyond my imaginable expectations, when driving my 991.1 C2S!
11-16-2018, 10:59 PM
#50
Burning Brakes
200 cell high-flow cats do not pollute that much more than the stock cats and they do not smell like a 70’s pickup...where are you getting this stuff from?! Did you buy a warehouse full of .1s that you are trying to convince people to buy?! For the $2k installed it is going to cost me for "bolt-on" high-flow cats I will be very happy with the sound, no smell and gobs of torque. If someone is in the market they should drive both and decide for themselves - I used to love driving my '08 Boxster S but I love to drive my '19 Targa GTS a lot more, and I drove a '16 GTS before I decided.
11-17-2018, 01:05 AM
#51
Burning Brakes
Soul Performance at $1850 shipped (talk to Austin at Vivid Racing and mention me/Rennlist) and 1.5 hours for install at $100 per hour rate, to be done at a Porsche Indy shop installation in Jax FL on Dec. 4th. I picked up my Targa GTS in Tampa today and drove home to Palm Coast on all back roads. Great so far but lacking in the sound department for me so the cats will solve that; I test drove a .2 with the same cats before I ordered mine and that is all I felt was needed to get the sound I was looking for, and no '70s pickup smell.
11-17-2018, 10:31 AM
#52
Burning Brakes
200 cell high-flow cats do not pollute that much more than the stock cats and they do not smell like a 70’s pickup...where are you getting this stuff from?! Did you buy a warehouse full of .1s that you are trying to convince people to buy?! For the $2k installed it is going to cost me for "bolt-on" high-flow cats I will be very happy with the sound, no smell and gobs of torque. If someone is in the market they should drive both and decide for themselves - I used to love driving my '08 Boxster S but I love to drive my '19 Targa GTS a lot more, and I drove a '16 GTS before I decided.
11-17-2018, 11:18 AM
#53
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Cats are more complex that it may appear but noise restrictions are part of the reason they use cats with a higher cell count and since 200 cell cats will pass their emission criteria (i.e., no CEL) I cannot see why there is a big difference in pollutants, Keep in mind that other pollutants such as ammonia can increase with denser cells cats so there is fine line involved is creating the ideal cat for performance, sound and environmental reasons.
11-17-2018, 07:41 PM
#55
1:00 to 1:18. That's called torque.
A .2 GTS can be tuned for $1500 to pull like a TTS while keeping the weight much further down. The TTS pulled on the .1 GTS like it wasn't even moving. The GTS has a better driver too. Even in stock form a .2 GTS will pull away from a .1 just like that video but not that hard. Like mentioned though, with a tune or mods it's completely over.
That's just one of the major aspects as to why the .2 is much much better. 3-4MPH in trap speeds is huge. .4 seconds in 0-60 or 1/4 mile is HUGE. Why all the down play? Sounds like cope to me.
Again, especially coming from someone who drives a base 3.4L from yesteryear. Two different worlds. A 981 Boxster S is faster than your car.
A .2 GTS can be tuned for $1500 to pull like a TTS while keeping the weight much further down. The TTS pulled on the .1 GTS like it wasn't even moving. The GTS has a better driver too. Even in stock form a .2 GTS will pull away from a .1 just like that video but not that hard. Like mentioned though, with a tune or mods it's completely over.
That's just one of the major aspects as to why the .2 is much much better. 3-4MPH in trap speeds is huge. .4 seconds in 0-60 or 1/4 mile is HUGE. Why all the down play? Sounds like cope to me.
Again, especially coming from someone who drives a base 3.4L from yesteryear. Two different worlds. A 981 Boxster S is faster than your car.
11-17-2018, 08:36 PM
#56
What’s funny to me is how some .2 owners are so desperate to render a car that holds its own so well, “a dog.” Why the desperation and hyperbole, when we all know via factual figures that isn’t true? Everyone knows a turbo flat six is a beastly combo, and no one denies the .2 is a marvelous performer. But Porsche managed to make a *naturally aspirated* flat 6 that’s NOT a GT car get sub 4 second 0-60 times and sub 12 second quarter mile time. That’s miraculous. The .1’s are technical masterpieces, whether that challenges your preconceived bias or not. Its resale values since .2’s came out speak for itself. That doesn’t diminish your .2 in any way, so no need to worry [shrug].
11-17-2018, 10:20 PM
#57
If performance is your thing the differences are pretty significant.
The differences in lap times from my personal experience are around 2 to 3 seconds a minute or there abouts. The last event I attended 1.1 S separated the top 17 cars.
Im not involved in drag racing, although I do know the difference in trap speed is at least 5mph if not more. Again, most would consider this significant.
If the car is a daily does it matter, probably not, although the torque is nice to have likewise the updated tech is too, if that's your thing.
Both are pretty good - I think perhaps, one important advantage the two has in GTS form is it is somewhat future proofed eg the 992S will have around 450HP - thus from a performance perspective there will be a marginal benefit in upgrading to the 992. More so given a tune nets around 80HP to the wheels.
Personnally I can't see an Investement thesis around any of the modern Carreras - they all depreciate and the reality is they are mass produced sports cars.
The differences in lap times from my personal experience are around 2 to 3 seconds a minute or there abouts. The last event I attended 1.1 S separated the top 17 cars.
Im not involved in drag racing, although I do know the difference in trap speed is at least 5mph if not more. Again, most would consider this significant.
If the car is a daily does it matter, probably not, although the torque is nice to have likewise the updated tech is too, if that's your thing.
Both are pretty good - I think perhaps, one important advantage the two has in GTS form is it is somewhat future proofed eg the 992S will have around 450HP - thus from a performance perspective there will be a marginal benefit in upgrading to the 992. More so given a tune nets around 80HP to the wheels.
Personnally I can't see an Investement thesis around any of the modern Carreras - they all depreciate and the reality is they are mass produced sports cars.
11-17-2018, 11:13 PM
#58
If performance is your thing the differences are pretty significant.
The differences in lap times from my personal experience are around 2 to 3 seconds a minute or there abouts. The last event I attended 1.1 S separated the top 17 cars.
Im not involved in drag racing, although I do know the difference in trap speed is at least 5mph if not more. Again, most would consider this significant.
If the car is a daily does it matter, probably not, although the torque is nice to have likewise the updated tech is too, if that's your thing.
Both are pretty good - I think perhaps, one important advantage the two has in GTS form is it is somewhat future proofed eg the 992S will have around 450HP - thus from a performance perspective there will be a marginal benefit in upgrading to the 992. More so given a tune nets around 80HP to the wheels.
Personnally I can't see an Investement thesis around any of the modern Carreras - they all depreciate and the reality is they are mass produced sports cars.
The differences in lap times from my personal experience are around 2 to 3 seconds a minute or there abouts. The last event I attended 1.1 S separated the top 17 cars.
Im not involved in drag racing, although I do know the difference in trap speed is at least 5mph if not more. Again, most would consider this significant.
If the car is a daily does it matter, probably not, although the torque is nice to have likewise the updated tech is too, if that's your thing.
Both are pretty good - I think perhaps, one important advantage the two has in GTS form is it is somewhat future proofed eg the 992S will have around 450HP - thus from a performance perspective there will be a marginal benefit in upgrading to the 992. More so given a tune nets around 80HP to the wheels.
Personnally I can't see an Investement thesis around any of the modern Carreras - they all depreciate and the reality is they are mass produced sports cars.
When taking equal models and specs into consideration, the .1 and .2 base certainly isn’t a 5 MPH difference. It’s consistently 3-4 MPH. Not as sure about the S comparison as maybe that’s slightly wider. Shorter tracks will always favor torquer cars. What I like about the Ring times is it reflects the cars being truly pushed to their limits on long track. Also, both cars have videos (.1 and .2) so you can really see for yourself how they compare. The difference simply isn’t as large as some would like to believe.
Now, of course, in an all out race. Every tenth and second counts. But as you sort of mention; in the real world these translate to little gains. To me, a 10+ MPH trap speed advantage truly separates classes of performance. The 991.2 GTS felt a lot faster than my car. Which makes sense as it probably traps at least 8 MPH more. The .2 base I drove didn’t feel much faster, as my .1 with S/C, x pipe and HRE wheels that probably equal 50+ lbs of non-rotating mass weight savings, probably would only trap a couple or few MPH less than a bog standard .2 base. To me, aside from their vast difference in how they put the power down, the actual performance felt fairly negligible.
Personally, the sound advantage is worth more, and much more oftenly noticeable than the few MPH trap speed difference, or even a couple second track difference. But that’s me.
11-17-2018, 11:34 PM
#59
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Dude, you keeping talking sound but one can make a .2 sound really good for peanuts. And I could barely hear the turbo on the drive home with my new one yesterday, and most people would probably not notice it, but with 200 cell cats I will not hear anything but a great sounding car.
