that's a safe assumption and i totally get your logic. there's no way for a manufacture to test their parts on anything other than OEM parts unless they produce the other parts as well.

But at end of the day, honestly speaking i doubt there's any real world differences (in terms of product brand pairing). One thing we have to keep in mind is that none of these manufactures have r&d budget anywhere close to a real car company. So i would think the optimization / iteration is not extensive by any means. I believe they end up going with best practices and past experiences, for example in terms of equal length and airflow logic etc. And I would think they usually just follow that, and as long as it tests well they would move forward and ship the product.

But i'm not knocking on it by any means. as @medtech_expat mentioned hes getting a full inconel kline set and im dying to hear it in person later this month. Our dyno results still won't be 100% comparable as it will be different cars with very different mileage on them, and you are gonna be comparing difference in numbers in the low 10s. But i will bringing a decent camera/mic setup hoping to capture some sound results for the community!

Personal plan is to grab some soul cats later this year or early next year, and maybe some future sharkwerk exhausts down the road. they stated they have started work on the 991.2 non Turbo cars and they are local to me so super looking forward to that. My only worry is the car becoming too loud like stated before as the vektor headers already made a decent sound increase. Oh and so far i have scraped my front multiple times despite having FAL (thank you san francisco) but my headers are fine

 

For header design, as all the headers are designed with the same constraints of the stock turbo location and stock turbo, it's irrelevant about anything post turbo (performance wise, not sound wise as the runner lengths effect the tone). Now, where there is design freedom and Kline has taken it is post turbo. The Kline cats and exhaust have to go together because they decided to go away from the stock interfaces and therefore removed those design constraints. Also notice that Kline placed the cat more on-center with the turbine discharge whereas the OEM Porsche cat centerline is offset from the turbine discharge of the turbo. The zirconium coating is good stuff, common in Motorsports.

The Kline exhaust is a mirror image whereas the stock is not. Kline has both larger diameter pipes up top, smaller diameter on the bottom. The OEM does not have that symmetry. I'm not familiar with all of Kline's products, but the mufflers they use in this system may be something they already had allowing them to reuse parts and save costs. The symmetry does allow them to use the same muffler on both sides in this design saving some costs. And the symmetry makes the exhaust look nicer. So Kline took the bet that many people would do both cats and exhaust. They eliminated themselves from the market segments that would only do exhaust or only cats.

I would note that if you back up into anything tall, say a parking stop, the header does sit below the oil pan and before the rear tire would hit. So there is still risk of hitting the header on something backing up. But I expect most 911 owners don't back up to the point of the rear of the car hanging over curbing. At least I don't.

 

I think there will still be good gains, but not as good as if the tune were made with headers. I've seen some data already where Cobb stage 1 was used with headers and the tune definitely needed some work. The tune seemed to be running a bit lean causing knock and timing reduction. Still made more power than stock, but there's definitely room for optimization on a header specific tune.

 

spdracerut: I never noticed that the OEM exhaust was asymmetrical whereas the Kline was symmetrical. From a cosmetic point of view symmetry would certainly look better, but I wonder why Porsche did this? Much of what is seen in free standing exhaust pictures is covered completely by the rear bumper anyway. If you happen to know...do Akra and the other exhaust manufacturers make symmetrical exhausts or is the symmetry you are referring to only on the cat design? I am curious now to see what you see..

I also agree that the Cobb Stage 1 tune certainly has room to make more power conservatively. With the addition of these higher flowing parts a custom tune will probably be required to get the car optimized.

As far as utilizing the same muffler design.. I would think that all manufacturers essentially use the same muffler design in house for all of their exhaust systems. I mean its a muffler so why should a Ferrari muffler made by Akra (for example) be significantly different from a Porsche Muffler also made by Akra? Obviously not talking about design, or valves, I am talking about the internal workings of a muffler, something I know nothing about.

In the end, I dont think any of this stuff is really rocket science. Its pipes and welds and optimizing flow and sound by keeping it legal (sometimes). No one has a magic proprietary part that makes 100hp over the others...

 

 

Let me fix that for you........No one has a magic proprietary part that makes 10hp over the others.

I like how the GTS Targa has the Black pillar instead of the usual metal one.

I am going to post three pics that I scribbled on, showing something that my x-ray eyes see. Don't get upset because remember the first statement in my post.....No one has a magic proprietary part that makes 10hp over the others.


VEKTOR FLOW

Klein Flow 1

Klein flow 2

I love the Klein, they were my second choice. They have a unique sound. I am sure you will be very happy with them.

 

 

4 point 0: I dont know what you are trying to demonstrate in your diagram. Is it the way the Kline bends differently than the Vektor? Please explain.

As far as being your first or second choice, we have gone down this road before. You are the buyer that buys the most expensive part and I am the guy that buys the most proven part.
Kline has been doing this 5 times longer than Vektor has and they offered a full refund if the dyno tests dont prove beneficial. Vektor refused to refund and refused to support their HP claims.

We will see on Tuesday what the dyno shows with the Kline Headers. We may never know what the Vektors do because no one has or intends on dyno testing them before and after.
They were given a chance to sell a set of their headers at full retail provided their HP claims were even close on independent dyno testing. I even offered to pay John at BGB Motorsports to do it and Vektor declined.

I won't do business with a company that has no confidence in their own part and isnt willing in participating in a shoot out. The fact their headers hang below the rear cross member was also an immediate red flag for me.

 

Hopefully Cobb will release their stage 2 tunes soon.

 

PTS, like you mentioned we are going down the same path again, but you are just making false claims in this thread

Vektor has 2 public tests online (which you don't believe and claim to be bogus), and there's a guy on insta who have modded his T and did a before and after with the headers, which you also chose to ignore (because like i said, we have been here before)

In fact the only headers that doesn't have any data online with just a header swap are the ones YOU BOUGHT from kline.

Again, im not digging at kline, but i just can't stand when people flip the facts around because they have strong personal opinions against one company or another. You had this with IPD, and now you are doing the same with header companies. You are absolutely NOT buying from the most proven product when the company does not provide a single number and there's zero information you can find on the internet. If we actually did followed your logic, the same should apply to IPD when they are a company that have done plenum over and over again with 911 cars.

It's ok to have personal opinions, but spinning them as false facts and spreading on the internet sounds like #FAKENEWS to me.

 

Basic: If you look into the dyno charts provided by Vektor owners, you will see that they are vastly different from one another. Something is fishy with the testing.
Vektor had no skin in the game allowing me or BGB Motorsports to do independent testing. No discounts, full retail. All they had to show was "similar" results. THEY REFUSED.
No false claims here. Those are the facts. Another website also asked to test Vektor in a shoot out. THEY REFUSED HIM TOO.

Can you link me to the guy on Insta with the before and after? In fact, post it here in this thread to see.

"You are absolutely NOT buying from the most proven product when the company does not provide a single number and there's zero information you can find on the internet"
Did I ever say I was buying the most proven product? Can you cut and paste where I said that? Who is flipping the facts around? Post where I said that.
What I did say is that I am buying the part from a company that has been doing this longer than the others. 5 times Longer than Vektor. Far longer than Fabspeed too.
Kline has been making performance exhaust parts for Porsche longer than just about anyone else and the headers for sure longer than ANYONE else.
That is a proven company to me with history, research, experience and best of all, NO horror stories. Thats what I am buying. I am buying Kline the Company, not some Social Media Newcomer.

Kline doesnt have any data posted, this is true. But, Kline doesn't make any claims either do they? Kline doesnt say they make 19hp or 9hp, so how is that the same?
I decided to do the testing for Kline on my own dime, because I believe they will be superior performing to the Vektor at 2/3rds the price with 5 times the experience.
I am doing this to prove or disprove that Vektors fancy welds, Unique bends, Swain Coating and superior research will yield NOTHING over the Klines.

Seriously, how can a company like Vektor claim they did multiple revisions of their headers with months of data research and release a part that hangs below the rear Cross member?
THAT is rookie Sheet. That is a part that shouldn't be released. If you need to sacrifice ripping the motor out of the car by catching a header in order to extract even 1hp over a different "safer" design, then you need to fire your entire R&D team and start from scratch. The design is dangerous and for no reason.

My strong personal opinions about the company came about by their misinformation, back peddling, snake oil tactics and refusing to back up their claims. Before all that, I never even heard of Vektor and after the Kline dyno testing on Tuesday, we may never heard from them again...

 

 

Sam: 3 people will be dyno testing the KLINE headers. Lets be clear. NO ONE in this thread or any other I can find will be dyno testing the Vektor headers.

Wonder why with NO DATA provided by Kline that anyone would want to buy their products, let alone 3 of us on one thread.. Must be something?

 

To be fair, basic666 will dyno his GTS with Vektor headers the same day I get my Kline system installed. While he won't have the baseline graph, at least we'll eliminate a few variables by using the same dyno with the same weather conditions with only the headers installed (I'll do another pull with the full Kline system).

 

medtech: You can use my baseline as his baseline too. Not 100% accurate, but better than nothing. Both 991.2 GTS's. We can also compare our "after" dyno runs to see who is making bigger gains and where.

Again, I will go on record that I believe the differences will probably be negligible. But, based on Vektor's dangerous hanging design, excessive price point and snake oil PR tactics claiming their headers are superior to all others, I can see NO reason to buy headers from them. If all of the above is true, there is nothing about the Vektors that would warrant a price premium based on similar performance.

We're gonna find out soon enough. I know that the same guys who bought Vektors are gonna say "well, the real benefits will come when the stage 2 arrives"

To that I say BS. Because the headers weren't designed or tested with a stage 2 tune, it didn't exist. They dont advertise it as better performing "only with a stage 2 tune", they advertise it as a 19hp gain on a STOCK car with a STOCK tune. So, if they dont perform better now, they basically lied their way into our lives.