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If optioned with buckets, RWS, and other options not available to base cars. I believe it will hold its value better then the other standard 911's on a percentage basis. It will still take a large deprecation hit as did all the 997. I just think it will hold a slight premium (% from new) over the other 911's (non GT). Either way this ain't a car to be bought with depreciation in mind make sure you drive the hell out of them. If it wasn't for the next gen Spyder I would of bout one.
I really enjoy the affect the T is having on the Porsche community as a whole.............. I have noticed that there is a very large segment of Porsche enthusiasts that don’t understand the car, \
I'm not sure this is the case - I think a lot of people understand the T
Its a base with SPASM and the gearing of the S (yes I know you can get LWBs and it has thin rear glass).
Because it has the gearing output of the S it generates more wheel torque than the base (4.4% more) but less wheel torque than the S (the S generates 11.1% more wheel torque than the T) . Taking it further the GTS/X51 generates 22.2% more wheel torque than the T - a very, very noticeable difference on corner exit
If a T is not equipped with RAS it will not handle as well as a SPASM equipped S with RAS (if both are manual, if both are PDK the difference in handling will be larger again due to the S having PTV-E). The difference will increase further if the S has PDCC SPASM and RAS (PDCC and PTVE are not available on the T).
To some, these difference matter to others they don't - nontheless the performance options deliver real outcomes which are discernable and meaningful to a good helmsman.
The T sits in the line up exactly where Porsche intended. A line up that is very good. A line up to be both praised and enjoyed.
Don't over analyse it, it will spoil your enjoyment.
The Above post is an example of the behavior I was referencing by the affect on the community. This post is pure fiction and written out of an emotional response. The poster clearly doesn’t know the standard equipment of the T and didn’t take the time to research the T before regurgitating all over the thread. The post doesn’t reference the question the OP asked or have any relevance to it. It is simply a propaganda slander attempt on the T.
The T is placed by Porsche in the line up along side one other car. The 911R. As the only two purist cars in the line up.
But as already stated I like this negative attitude because it means less cars will be ordered and that equals lower volume and higher collect ability in the long term future.
I'm sorry you believe that to be the case, actually I'm not - its actually pretty accurate right down to the wheel torque calculated from the gear ratios. In case you weren't aware, gears are torque multipliers.
Porsche are masters of model placement, always have been and always will be.
Standard equipment like what, the absence of the rear seats and "T interior," the brakes from the base, the base engine with 370HP and 450Nm torque, the standard seven speed manual that you can get in the S in this case with same ratios as the S, SPASM, thin glass from the RS at rear and sides, removal of sound deadening........fundamentally its a base with the gearing of the S, SPASM and the wheels from an S.
If you believe the T is somehow a 991 series II version of the R you may need to redo your research.
Tell me which bit is the "purists" bit? Is it rose jointed? Does it have a NA engine, does it have a six speed box, does it have the short ratios of the GT3T, does it have LWFW, does it have a single mass fly wheel, does it rev to ~ 9000RPM.
The T will depreciate like all the 991 Series II cars - because thats what it is (I said this in my previous post BTW) - as of today there were three sitting unsold at my local dealership.
Go and enjoy your car, don't over think it. The Ts a great car, as are the base, S and GTS.
"propaganda slander attempt on the T" .....really? . Thoroughly enjoyed that bit
Oh yeah...... Opinions are like as....es everyone has one.
What difference does it really make?
Unless you are a professional race track driver, I seriously doubt that 99% of people who buy these cars can tell the difference of a few % points change in individual components.
I came to the T MT RAS from a 2017 Carrera S with PDK RAS. They are BOTH great cars that provide an awesome driving experience.
The biggest difference for me is the combination of things that Porsche did with this car that bring us full circle to what Porsche provided to the everyday road driving experience of years ago. It wasn't about beating every nut-job off the line at the next stop light, but rather the overall driving experience which was a combination of performance, sound and overall driving engagement.
For me, the combination of small changes - the manual gearbox, RAS and the increased engine sound by way of the lightweight glass and less sound proofing result in making a noticeable difference in the total experience compared to the Carrera S that I had.
Simply put - the T is just plain FUN!
Bottom line, the ONLY person any of us have to satisfy is ourselves. We're fortunate in what Porsche has on offer, if the T doesn't float your boat, they have an additional 22 versions of the 911 to choose from.
However, I wouldn't swap out of a GTS for a T - for me the GTS is much more of an event and a much more exciting experience.
The difference for me is the corner exit, braking and charge to the redline - these are significant differences in behaviour. Hence my preference in this series of 911s and believe me I can tell the difference.
Ha
the T has a different final drive the gear set is the same.
The T has the same shifter that is in the 911 R not a shift kit.
TheT comes standard with PTV, SPASM, and mechanical locking LSD
the T has available options for RAS, LWB’s The S does not. You are mistaken. Your statements are not factual.
The T is 50 lbs lighter which means it uses the horsepower and torque more effectively.
Most importantly the T is a special edition car. The S is just a run of the mill Carrera trim package car. You can get a S trim on a cayenne and every other car porsche makes. Not seeing a light weight T version on any other vehicles in the porsche line up tells me the T IS IN FACT a special car.
The gearing output is exactly the same as the S - see below (Gi = transmission ratio)
2nd base = Gi 7.8776, 2nd T = Gi 8.2211, 2nd S = Gi 8.2211, 2nd GTS = Gi 8.2211, 2nd GT3 = Gi 9.4486
3rd base = Gi 5.4352, 3rd T = Gi 5.6722, 3rd S = Gi 5.6722, 3rd GTS = Gi 5.6722, 3rd GT3 = Gi 6.8284
You see, the T gearing is shorter than the base, the same as the S and GTS which are not as short as the GT3. The GT3 might not be an engine torque monster, but through gearing it makes up for that. So by the time you're in the go to gears e.g. 3rd and 4th the GT3 is making 1% and 5% more wheel torque (calculated as the effective driving force delivered to the contact patches) than the GTS.
Wheel torque (the effective driving force delivered to the contact patches) combined with HP matters - a lot.
The S comes with PTV, can be had with SPASM and has a mechanical locking diff and with PDK, PTVE
The S has the option of RAS and PDCC you can also get bucket seats that allow access to the rear (but not LWB)
50lbs lighter no one pays that as meaningful - although its true.
The gear stick - you do realise its a seven speed and the R is a six speed - nice red paint tho
Special edition, so is the black . . I think the T is a great and positive departure from the "Black editions"
Last edited by groundhog; 10-04-2018 at 10:48 AM.
Reason: punctuation and capitilisation
Ok I am done you just can’t fix stupid.
Honestly i don’t want to. The people with groundhogs misguided misinformed beliefs the better for the rest of us T owners.
Ok I am done you just can’t fix stupid.
Honestly i don’t want to. The people with groundhogs misguided misinformed beliefs the better for the rest of us T owners.
Good luck with that attitude - you probably should do a bit more research. As in try reading the Porsche literature.
Thats why the T is basically priced between the "base" and S, exactly in line with its performance (as highlighted by the differences in wheel torque). As is the way with Porsche hence its depreciation will follow that trajectory too. There isn't a lot of mystery to this, but there is a whole world of marketing.
No one is ragging on the T - they are just telling it like they see it, I for one, as I have said in every post, think all of this series from the so called base to the GTS are excellent. This doesn't mean they are collectible or will hold value particularly well.
991.1's will continue to perform well in the resale market when the 992's come out, at least relative to 991.2's. 997.2's and 991.1's will continue to battle it out for the best resale value amongst water cooled N/A cars, and their depreciation will be mitigated until IMO inevitably in the future they find a ground and then move up. 997.2's have an advantage of being older so their depreciation curve has more so run its course, while 991.1's stopped depreciating the moment 991.2's came out, so inevitably they *should* have some room to go (down), but IMO it will be slow, and will find a solid floor.
991.2's imo will see the most depreciation after the 992 comes out due to not having any "last of" element helping it (which is always gold in the 911 resale market), unless the dumb Norelco shifter and touchscreen buttons on the 992 make people value the analogue feel of the 991's that much more. Overall, the 992 sharing the 991.2's engine basis along with the fact that its depreciation curve has just started, imo means it will be the most affected.
The "T" I feel will perform closer to the the 991.2 range as a whole, when comparing to all of the above. But I do think it will hold better resale value than the base and S models. It's not a super rare car, but it is a rarer designation and that always helps, unless it becomes a forgotten model that nobody really cares about (i.e "Club Sport" or Black Edition" or whatever, which don't seem to command more value unless I'm mistaken) which I doubt, as it provides some fundamental driving enhancement over its base counterpart, which enthusiasts always value. It might hold a similar value retention to the GTS, although being lower priced, obviously *should* be better on a percentage scale.
I think it would slightly help the 991.2 T long term values if there was not a 992 T or future generations of T's. If there are, it will depreciate exactly like any other variant.
Porsche has already indicated there will definitely be another T.
But the nugget I liked was learning the 992 will only in wide body form. So me T will be the first AND last narrow body T with mostly analogue controls. The article also stated all car settings are set deep inside the touch screen !
i dont care about depreciation since I brought to drive not speculate.
My brother has a 1969 T that he drives often, even though he lives in Buffalo NY, and he said the value went up quite a bit since the new T has come out...just 50 more years before the new ones do the same.
10-03-2018, 07:36 AM
