and the loner vehicle is.....
09-21-2018, 05:45 PM
#46
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
Posts: 1,016
Likes: 0
Received 22 Likes
on
16 Posts
Sorry ahead-of-time Lex, but when I go to my dealer and he/she, nor I, can predict the length of the time for the repair, I either sit with a great book or ask for a loaner way ahead of time. Quite frankly, I could not care what they give me for transportation as long as it is transportation IF I REALLY NEED IT. It is always a Volvo or a Cayenne. I drive a glorious GTS so I am comfortable in my own skin to receive ANY loaner transportation if I NEED it. If I do not, and the predicted time is short, I am happy to sit with my book and READ.
All the complainers here want to do is Joy-Ride in a car they do not own. All I want is temporary transportation, if truthfully needed. Try a book sometime if you are not in a rush. You may enjoy it!
All the complainers here want to do is Joy-Ride in a car they do not own. All I want is temporary transportation, if truthfully needed. Try a book sometime if you are not in a rush. You may enjoy it!
09-21-2018, 05:47 PM
#47
I agree that's a key point, how many cars would they need to set aside? At any given time the major dealer in this area has perhaps a half-dozen cars in their service bays. I don't think I've seen more than ten. Of those, maybe half will be 911s. As with most dealers, this one usually won't lend you a Porsche unless you bought your car from them (another potential marketing misstep, IMO), so that might eliminate one or two. Let's say half of the remaining customers request a loaner... no clue if that's realistic or not, but let's go with it for now. Given that reasoning, IMHO it's perfectly reasonable for the dealer to keep one or two 718s, one or two Cayennes or Macans, and one or two clean late-model 911s on hand for customer use.
Remember, these guys get $300 for an oil change. They aren't in the free-loaner business, they're in the "Rent our car for $300 a day and we'll throw in a few bottles of Mobil One to sweeten the deal" business.
First, I think you significantly underestimate the numbers of cars in service at a time. The two dealers around me have about 15-20 cars in the bay. And that's just in the bay. Don't forget the cars parked in the lot waiting for service or to be picked up after service. The cars in the lot usually out numbers the cars in the bay by some margin.
Second...if you point about keeping multiple kinds of cars as a marketing tactic, then I agree assuming the math works out. But if the point of carrying multiple types of cars is so that you can give owners a pick of the litter, or to guarantee a car "on par" with the car being serviced, then your just asking for trouble. You'll get people who'll complain. "Last time I got a 911! Why don't you have a 911 for me again?!"
09-21-2018, 05:56 PM
#48
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
When I dropped the Cayman off just about an hour ago, the first thing out of the service managers mouth was "well, what do you think about it". So I told him and he appreciated the feedback (or so he said). But I also told him that they should have some 911's to loan out to which he agreed and went on to say that they hear that a lot and many dealerships have reported that to the mothership. Who knows, PCNA may make a change.
09-21-2018, 05:59 PM
#49
Yup there is a reason fleet costs for loaners is so expensive for dealers....it’s way more needed than one would think.
Also so remember it’s not just the cars sold this year, but also previous years....adds up. I have a few friends very high up in the dealership business (executives of some of the giant multiple dealer conglomerates).
I could be mistaken but remember them telling me an absurd number for their BMW dealerships (insert bimmer service joke here); was pretty much 1 loaner for every vehicle sold in the year. (Again 5 years of sales = lots of cars) Oil changes, warranty work, tire swaps, etc....adds up.
Also so remember it’s not just the cars sold this year, but also previous years....adds up. I have a few friends very high up in the dealership business (executives of some of the giant multiple dealer conglomerates).
I could be mistaken but remember them telling me an absurd number for their BMW dealerships (insert bimmer service joke here); was pretty much 1 loaner for every vehicle sold in the year. (Again 5 years of sales = lots of cars) Oil changes, warranty work, tire swaps, etc....adds up.
09-21-2018, 06:00 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
Two counter-arguments here since it's a slow Friday.
First, I think you significantly underestimate the numbers of cars in service at a time. The two dealers around me have about 15-20 cars in the bay. And that's just in the bay. Don't forget the cars parked in the lot waiting for service or to be picked up after service. The cars in the lot usually out numbers the cars in the bay by some margin.
First, I think you significantly underestimate the numbers of cars in service at a time. The two dealers around me have about 15-20 cars in the bay. And that's just in the bay. Don't forget the cars parked in the lot waiting for service or to be picked up after service. The cars in the lot usually out numbers the cars in the bay by some margin.
Second...if you point about keeping multiple kinds of cars as a marketing tactic, then I agree assuming the math works out. But if the point of carrying multiple types of cars is so that you can give owners a pick of the litter, or to guarantee a car "on par" with the car being serviced, then your just asking for trouble. You'll get people who'll complain. "Last time I got a 911! Why don't you have a 911 for me again?!"
Also, I don't have a beef if they lend me a clean used car. They always have plenty of those.
I could be mistaken but remember them telling me an absurd number for their BMW dealerships (insert bimmer service joke here); was pretty much 1 loaner for every vehicle sold in the year. (Again 5 years of sales = lots of cars) Oil changes, warranty work, tire swaps, etc....adds up.
09-21-2018, 06:07 PM
#51
Very true, but...
I don't think most people would expect to be handed the keys without a reservation. Usually you need to reserve a Porsche loaner at least a week or two in advance, and I don't think that's too unreasonable.
Also, I don't have a beef if they lend me a clean used car. They always have plenty of those.
I don't think most people would expect to be handed the keys without a reservation. Usually you need to reserve a Porsche loaner at least a week or two in advance, and I don't think that's too unreasonable.
Also, I don't have a beef if they lend me a clean used car. They always have plenty of those.
I think that's fair...make a reservation in advance along with a request for a certain type of car (but no guarantees). And if you don't, you get what's available. Like you, I'm just happy if I get a loaner that's clean and not through an off-site rental car company.
09-21-2018, 06:30 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
Sorry ahead-of-time Lex, but when I go to my dealer and he/she, nor I, can predict the length of the time for the repair, I either sit with a great book or ask for a loaner way ahead of time. Quite frankly, I could not care what they give me for transportation as long as it is transportation IF I REALLY NEED IT. It is always a Volvo or a Cayenne. I drive a glorious GTS so I am comfortable in my own skin to receive ANY loaner transportation if I NEED it. If I do not, and the predicted time is short, I am happy to sit with my book and READ.
All the complainers here want to do is Joy-Ride in a car they do not own. All I want is temporary transportation, if truthfully needed. Try a book sometime if you are not in a rush. You may enjoy it!
All the complainers here want to do is Joy-Ride in a car they do not own. All I want is temporary transportation, if truthfully needed. Try a book sometime if you are not in a rush. You may enjoy it!
09-21-2018, 06:31 PM
#53
Also, in most cases, it's more expensive for a dealer to own and operate their own rental fleet than it is to outsource to a rental car company (Enterprise, Hertz, etc). One exception is if you do it on a massive scale as Toyota did years ago, essentially starting their own rental car company.
So by offering loaners, they dealer has decided that it's the best business decision. And a sound one IMO. But at some point, you need to draw the line. In other words, the dealer must ask...do I get a return in the form of repeat service business (this is usually more important and direct than future car sales) that outweighs the additional cost of carrying a rental fleet of 911s/Cayennes vs Caymans/Macans? I've never done the analysis, but my guess is no. So if the dealer doesn't offer 911s, it doesn't mean they don't care about customer service. If that were true, they would just send you to Enterprise. Instead, they are making a good business decision. After all, it's a for-profit business so why should they spend more money if it's not good for the bottom line? Just for the sole purpose of pleasing people? Ha!
At least, that's my take having worked in finance/strategy for a rental car company in a previous life.
So by offering loaners, they dealer has decided that it's the best business decision. And a sound one IMO. But at some point, you need to draw the line. In other words, the dealer must ask...do I get a return in the form of repeat service business (this is usually more important and direct than future car sales) that outweighs the additional cost of carrying a rental fleet of 911s/Cayennes vs Caymans/Macans? I've never done the analysis, but my guess is no. So if the dealer doesn't offer 911s, it doesn't mean they don't care about customer service. If that were true, they would just send you to Enterprise. Instead, they are making a good business decision. After all, it's a for-profit business so why should they spend more money if it's not good for the bottom line? Just for the sole purpose of pleasing people? Ha!
At least, that's my take having worked in finance/strategy for a rental car company in a previous life.
09-21-2018, 07:04 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
Cayennes and Macans at my dealer. I need to call a couple weeks ahead in order to get one, otherwise--Uber. I don't care what they give me, but I would be happy with a Crown Vic to give everyone else in traffic a little scare 
09-21-2018, 07:14 PM
#56
I don’t disagree on the concept from a customer perspective, I just fail to see the business benefit on the dealer side.
I was operating on the assumption that reservation was required for loaner already (this is already the case for the dealerships around here....) on occasion when the dealership has messed up we’ve even been given the keys to the GMs or dealer principal’s car!
You are right on the conglomerate side, however the various brands still operate and are incentified at the brand level. (Eg the BMW guys don’t get a financial benefit for their customer upgrading to a Porsche....actually the opposite as they lose the sale and service revenue when customer brand switch’s). From the upper Corp level the measure is different but also consider each brand gets compensated by what they sell and the service scores which also effects that individual dealers ability to be allocated special vehicles.
Conceptually good but implementing is challenged given the business structure is not aligned to this. I also invision a thread about bringing the Porsche in and getting some POS BMW or something like that.
Good conversation, don’t underestimate the auto dealers preference to extract as much money out of us as possible....they are good at this. If there was a path that uses top spectrum loaners that would result in improving their profit you bet they would do it.
I was operating on the assumption that reservation was required for loaner already (this is already the case for the dealerships around here....) on occasion when the dealership has messed up we’ve even been given the keys to the GMs or dealer principal’s car!
You are right on the conglomerate side, however the various brands still operate and are incentified at the brand level. (Eg the BMW guys don’t get a financial benefit for their customer upgrading to a Porsche....actually the opposite as they lose the sale and service revenue when customer brand switch’s). From the upper Corp level the measure is different but also consider each brand gets compensated by what they sell and the service scores which also effects that individual dealers ability to be allocated special vehicles.
Conceptually good but implementing is challenged given the business structure is not aligned to this. I also invision a thread about bringing the Porsche in and getting some POS BMW or something like that.
Good conversation, don’t underestimate the auto dealers preference to extract as much money out of us as possible....they are good at this. If there was a path that uses top spectrum loaners that would result in improving their profit you bet they would do it.
09-21-2018, 08:29 PM
#59
Yup there is a reason fleet costs for loaners is so expensive for dealers....it’s way more needed than one would think.
Also so remember it’s not just the cars sold this year, but also previous years....adds up. I have a few friends very high up in the dealership business (executives of some of the giant multiple dealer conglomerates).
I could be mistaken but remember them telling me an absurd number for their BMW dealerships (insert bimmer service joke here); was pretty much 1 loaner for every vehicle sold in the year. (Again 5 years of sales = lots of cars) Oil changes, warranty work, tire swaps, etc....adds up.
Also so remember it’s not just the cars sold this year, but also previous years....adds up. I have a few friends very high up in the dealership business (executives of some of the giant multiple dealer conglomerates).
I could be mistaken but remember them telling me an absurd number for their BMW dealerships (insert bimmer service joke here); was pretty much 1 loaner for every vehicle sold in the year. (Again 5 years of sales = lots of cars) Oil changes, warranty work, tire swaps, etc....adds up.
I don’t disagree on the concept from a customer perspective, I just fail to see the business benefit on the dealer side.
I was operating on the assumption that reservation was required for loaner already (this is already the case for the dealerships around here....) on occasion when the dealership has messed up we’ve even been given the keys to the GMs or dealer principal’s car!
You are right on the conglomerate side, however the various brands still operate and are incentified at the brand level. (Eg the BMW guys don’t get a financial benefit for their customer upgrading to a Porsche....actually the opposite as they lose the sale and service revenue when customer brand switch’s). From the upper Corp level the measure is different but also consider each brand gets compensated by what they sell and the service scores which also effects that individual dealers ability to be allocated special vehicles.
Conceptually good but implementing is challenged given the business structure is not aligned to this. I also invision a thread about bringing the Porsche in and getting some POS BMW or something like that.
Good conversation, don’t underestimate the auto dealers preference to extract as much money out of us as possible....they are good at this. If there was a path that uses top spectrum loaners that would result in improving their profit you bet they would do it.
I was operating on the assumption that reservation was required for loaner already (this is already the case for the dealerships around here....) on occasion when the dealership has messed up we’ve even been given the keys to the GMs or dealer principal’s car!
You are right on the conglomerate side, however the various brands still operate and are incentified at the brand level. (Eg the BMW guys don’t get a financial benefit for their customer upgrading to a Porsche....actually the opposite as they lose the sale and service revenue when customer brand switch’s). From the upper Corp level the measure is different but also consider each brand gets compensated by what they sell and the service scores which also effects that individual dealers ability to be allocated special vehicles.
Conceptually good but implementing is challenged given the business structure is not aligned to this. I also invision a thread about bringing the Porsche in and getting some POS BMW or something like that.
Good conversation, don’t underestimate the auto dealers preference to extract as much money out of us as possible....they are good at this. If there was a path that uses top spectrum loaners that would result in improving their profit you bet they would do it.
And what if I told you rental car companies actually lose money renting the majority of their cars?
09-21-2018, 08:48 PM
#60
Wouldn’t surprise me. I don’t have the numbers as don’t know anybody in the rental business but just doing some rough math I don’t know how it can be profitable to rent a car for unlimited miles for $50/day.
Not only from the wear and tear on the car itself but the op costs to actually run the business (staff, office space, lot space, liability, fleet tracking, logistics,etc).
Likely make it up on the extra insurance, gas charges and so forth.
Not only from the wear and tear on the car itself but the op costs to actually run the business (staff, office space, lot space, liability, fleet tracking, logistics,etc).
Likely make it up on the extra insurance, gas charges and so forth.