Spring Rates - What was Porsche thinking?
#76
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I can see where 110/160- 120/170 could be in my future, I just needed to work my way up as the same rates 160/100ish on my F80 with MCS 3-ways would cause your teeth to fall out. The handling was amazing but driving at slower speeds was not pleasant. That setup made me go a bit too conservative on the 991.
The Tractives are shockingly good at higher rates, I’ll be honest I’m surprised as other dampers do not feel this way at all. I was driving home in sport mode which is my track mode and it just glided over rough pavement.
Going to hit a few track days with this setup in the next month and then go from there. Once the new turbos etc. get installed in a few weeks I'll move to Cup 2s and these will probably be too soft. I'll probably end up at 120/170 once the under body aero is done.
The Tractives are shockingly good at higher rates, I’ll be honest I’m surprised as other dampers do not feel this way at all. I was driving home in sport mode which is my track mode and it just glided over rough pavement.
Going to hit a few track days with this setup in the next month and then go from there. Once the new turbos etc. get installed in a few weeks I'll move to Cup 2s and these will probably be too soft. I'll probably end up at 120/170 once the under body aero is done.
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enzotcat (05-02-2024)
#77
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Ok you were right lol the 100/140 are great with the Tractives. Somehow the ride is better even with my old DSC file which has them a bit over damped at the moment. The car feels much sharper and lively. Still need them to settle a bit and then get it corner balanced and fully set up. I’ll get the DSC map sorted this weekend as well but that feels as though it will be easy as the front/rear ratio is nearly only a few points off. Just need to back off the compression and add a touch of rebound.
This is by far not too stiff for anyone thinking about spring rates.
thank you for sharing this info and thank you @jakermc for getting my car in on short notice.
This is by far not too stiff for anyone thinking about spring rates.
thank you for sharing this info and thank you @jakermc for getting my car in on short notice.
I had another very knowledgeable, enthusiast, car collector customer in the shop who was just drooling over your car. When I mentioned that I had right of first refusal when it was time for you to sell and I thought he was going to fight me for it! LOL Your original spec and now custom build are just spot on, it a pleasure for us every time it's here in our shop.
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IRunalot (05-02-2024)
#78
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I can see where 110/160- 120/170 could be in my future, I just needed to work my way up as the same rates 160/100ish on my F80 with MCS 3-ways would cause your teeth to fall out. The handling was amazing but driving at slower speeds was not pleasant. That setup made me go a bit too conservative on the 991.
The Tractives are shockingly good at higher rates, I’ll be honest I’m surprised as other dampers do not feel this way at all. I was driving home in sport mode which is my track mode and it just glided over rough pavement.
Going to hit a few track days with this setup in the next month and then go from there. Once the new turbos etc. get installed in a few weeks I'll move to Cup 2s and these will probably be too soft. I'll probably end up at 120/170 once the under body aero is done.
The Tractives are shockingly good at higher rates, I’ll be honest I’m surprised as other dampers do not feel this way at all. I was driving home in sport mode which is my track mode and it just glided over rough pavement.
Going to hit a few track days with this setup in the next month and then go from there. Once the new turbos etc. get installed in a few weeks I'll move to Cup 2s and these will probably be too soft. I'll probably end up at 120/170 once the under body aero is done.
I think the key with the tractive dampers is their response rate - 6ms as opposed to 100ms. With the stock dampers, at 60mph you're a good 20 feet past the pothole by the time they can react whereas with the tractives, you're 1/2 ft and still in the pothole when they react.
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IRunalot (05-02-2024)
#79
Three Wheelin'
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I think the key with the tractive dampers is their response rate - 6ms as opposed to 100ms. With the stock dampers, at 60mph you're a good 20 feet past the pothole by the time they can react whereas with the tractives, you're 1/2 ft and still in the pothole when they react.
Last edited by MingusDew; 05-02-2024 at 12:44 PM.
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IRunalot (05-02-2024)
#80
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When I worked at Ford they were experimenting with active dampers that had similar response rate (<10ms), and the system could sense a pothole then keep the wheel from dropping down into the pothole, basically skipping right over the hole. It made for an impressively smooth ride around the crappy MI roads. This was all on a prototype/development vehicle, I think just a standard Taurus or Fusion. I’m not sure if the system ever made it into anything production, but it was cool technology that showed what was possible even 8 years ago. I’m surprised the Porsche dampers have response rate that slow. Ford uses/used magnetorheological dampers, and I think the production ones were around ~35ms for the early ones back around 2017, but the more recent ones are under 10. Why would Porsche be using inferior dampers to Ford? Hopefully the 992 dampers are better.
does the DSC help speed up the response or is it limited by the shock?
#81
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The response is damper limited. DSC does give you a better operating range and changes the behavior compared to the stock module. On top of that you can customize it the valving and velocity.
On top of the repose time Tractives can change valving while in compression while the OEM dampers are not able to do this so they are always a step behind.
On top of the repose time Tractives can change valving while in compression while the OEM dampers are not able to do this so they are always a step behind.
Last edited by IRunalot; 05-02-2024 at 03:31 PM.
#82
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When I worked at Ford they were experimenting with active dampers that had similar response rate (<10ms), and the system could sense a pothole then keep the wheel from dropping down into the pothole, basically skipping right over the hole. It made for an impressively smooth ride around the crappy MI roads. This was all on a prototype/development vehicle, I think just a standard Taurus or Fusion. I’m not sure if the system ever made it into anything production, but it was cool technology that showed what was possible even 8 years ago. I’m surprised the Porsche dampers have response rate that slow. Ford uses/used magnetorheological dampers, and I think the production ones were around ~35ms for the early ones back around 2017, but the more recent ones are under 10. Why would Porsche be using inferior dampers to Ford? Hopefully the 992 dampers are better.
Interestingly enough, the Audi R8 uses MagneRide suspension, as does the Lamborghini Huracan, so the VW group in general isn't opposed to them.
#83
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Where are members sourcing their Tractive coilvers and E-motion parts?
#84
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I got my entire setup for suspension from TPC racing. I don't have E-motion - I have Tarett rear camber arms, Porsche motorsport outer control arms, TPC racing front tie rods and inner control arms, elephant racing spherical bearings, swift springs (110/160), Tractive DDA dampers. Tom@TPC put the entire package together for me and provided outstanding service.
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thesaintusa (05-02-2024)
#85
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#86
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I can see where 110/160- 120/170 could be in my future, I just needed to work my way up as the same rates 160/100ish on my F80 with MCS 3-ways would cause your teeth to fall out. The handling was amazing but driving at slower speeds was not pleasant. That setup made me go a bit too conservative on the 991.
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My guy said to me 100/180 and if it was too stiff, he’d guve me softer springs for FREE. But I wasn’t buying it. 🤣
I went 75/150. Then 100/150 much better and now 120/170. Which really isn’t far from 100/180 🤣
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IRunalot (05-03-2024)
#87
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