Performance mods and warranty question
07-20-2018, 08:18 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Again, my experiences aren't with Porsche dealers per se, but the idea that any dealer is going to cheat their parent company by swapping out aftermarket parts that might in fact of caused the failure for original parts after the fact, no matter how nice of a guy you are and how good of a customer you are, is fantasy land. Not going to happen.
You are 100% right, they are in business, and losing their franchise due to warranty fraud would be catastrophic compared to pissing off a customer for denying warranty coverage.
You are 100% right, they are in business, and losing their franchise due to warranty fraud would be catastrophic compared to pissing off a customer for denying warranty coverage.
07-20-2018, 08:22 PM
#17
Again, my experiences aren't with Porsche dealers per se, but the idea that any dealer is going to cheat their parent company by swapping out aftermarket parts that might in fact of caused the failure for original parts after the fact, no matter how nice of a guy you are and how good of a customer you are, is fantasy land. Not going to happen.
You are 100% right, they are in business, and losing their franchise due to warranty fraud would be catastrophic compared to pissing off a customer.
You are 100% right, they are in business, and losing their franchise due to warranty fraud would be catastrophic compared to pissing off a customer.
07-20-2018, 08:40 PM
#18
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yea, "voided warranty" is a bit of urban legend. As mentioned, a dealer or manufacturer would have a very tough time denying you warranty coverage on a radio or power windows even if they knew you blew up your engine and transmission with over the top mods...
07-20-2018, 08:48 PM
#19
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I recently test drove a pre-owned 2017 Targa 4S at a Porsche dealer here in FL that had Fabspeed headers, hi-flow cats and a GIAC tune. The SA told me if I had a problem with the engine or tranny they would look at it before denying a warranty claim out right. By the way, they did not install the Fabspeed items but they did install the GIAC tune so it goes to show that every dealer can decide how to handle things.
07-20-2018, 08:57 PM
#20
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this is what i have gathered from my experience with modding and warranty
1. ECU to turn up boost- def void engine and tranny warranty.......if you have a piggy back....(ie something that you can unplug and hard to tell...yes i know they can still tell if your car is running higher than normal boost if they read tourque output.....ie in the Audis) but they usually dont dig in that deep unless is a very expensive repair like a new turbo or a new PDK etc.
2. exhaust- esp anything behind the cat are probably OK, but they MIGHT deny you a warranty claim on your cat if they ever fail
3. intake- usually not...havent heard of claims denied on that
4. pendulum- possible void engine warranty.
basically i would say PCNA will also weight on ithe situation case by case, they know the law and they know what they can hang their hat on and what they cant. like saying that they wont cover your PDK tranny because you have a cat back exhaust is probably not gonna fly, but if you have a ecu tune and your turbo when out or the PDK failed....well then we all know that's an easy case for them to win.
1. ECU to turn up boost- def void engine and tranny warranty.......if you have a piggy back....(ie something that you can unplug and hard to tell...yes i know they can still tell if your car is running higher than normal boost if they read tourque output.....ie in the Audis) but they usually dont dig in that deep unless is a very expensive repair like a new turbo or a new PDK etc.
2. exhaust- esp anything behind the cat are probably OK, but they MIGHT deny you a warranty claim on your cat if they ever fail
3. intake- usually not...havent heard of claims denied on that
4. pendulum- possible void engine warranty.
basically i would say PCNA will also weight on ithe situation case by case, they know the law and they know what they can hang their hat on and what they cant. like saying that they wont cover your PDK tranny because you have a cat back exhaust is probably not gonna fly, but if you have a ecu tune and your turbo when out or the PDK failed....well then we all know that's an easy case for them to win.
07-20-2018, 09:44 PM
#21
Drifting
Originally Posted by Bob Z.
I recently test drove a pre-owned 2017 Targa 4S at a Porsche dealer here in FL that had Fabspeed headers, hi-flow cats and a GIAC tune. The SA told me if I had a problem with the engine or tranny they would look at it before denying a warranty claim out right. By the way, they did not install the Fabspeed items but they did install the GIAC tune so it goes to show that every dealer can decide how to handle things.
07-20-2018, 09:56 PM
#22
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I've been around the block more than once and can tell when I know if someone is BSing me. I talked to the Service Manager and a tech and they agreed with the SA. Sure they wanted to sell me the car, that is the business they are in, but what they said is should be the case everywhere if you have mods. A problem with the engine could be anything and I did not give examples so what I said is the way it should be, and from what I know is the way it is. Personally, I mod cars knowing that I run the risk of a warranty claim being denied, and I do it anyway since I buy from reputable companies and learn as much as possible beforehand. Also, mods that are used on the street from reputable companies are probably safe for 99% of the cars that have them and almost none will have warranty issues. If you track your car and run it hard on regular basis the mods could have different results, and those that track the cars a lot know that before they do so.
By the way, I ordered a new Targa 4S and plan to mod the crap out of it, and I could care less about the warranty but the OP asked and I responded.
By the way, I ordered a new Targa 4S and plan to mod the crap out of it, and I could care less about the warranty but the OP asked and I responded.
07-21-2018, 09:56 AM
#23
This is so often repeated but not reality....
Here is what typically happens. Not Porsche specific, just as likely (actually more likely) to happen at a Ford dealer:
Now if you put on an aftermarket exhaust, headers, cats, and your radio fails, any dealer or manufacturer would know better than to try and deny your warranty claim based on the exhaust mods.
Here is what typically happens. Not Porsche specific, just as likely (actually more likely) to happen at a Ford dealer:
- You do a mod, say some sort of power adding mod like headers...
- You have a failure, say a turbo failure..
- Technician working on your car notices the mod, points it out to the service manager, who claims the mod affected the failure and denies warranty coverage...
- You escalate to corporate warranty, they side with the dealer and deny coverage. Done.
- Their claim alone is enough to deny you coverage. If you want warranty coverage, your going to have to try an change their minds with letters and documents (unlikely) or hire a lawyer, which is still a dicey proposition and an expensive one.
Now if you put on an aftermarket exhaust, headers, cats, and your radio fails, any dealer or manufacturer would know better than to try and deny your warranty claim based on the exhaust mods.
My dealership noticed headers and bypass pipes. Didn't say a word.. Even with the CEL (which I told them to ignore). Nothing but handshakes and smiles.
If anything, they WANT warranty work because it's more $ in their pockets. Denying warranty work is like denying free money, literally.
Either way, talks about a trial are ridiculous. A simple letter from a lawyer would suffice unless you're asking for a refund on the whole car.
If anything, they WANT warranty work because it's more $ in their pockets. Denying warranty work is like denying free money, literally.
Either way, talks about a trial are ridiculous. A simple letter from a lawyer would suffice unless you're asking for a refund on the whole car.
A simple letter from your lawyer would not get you a new engine.
07-21-2018, 02:18 PM
#24
Drifting
My dealership noticed headers and bypass pipes. Didn't say a word.. Even with the CEL (which I told them to ignore). Nothing but handshakes and smiles.
If anything, they WANT warranty work because it's more $ in their pockets. Denying warranty work is like denying free money, literally.
Either way, talks about a trial are ridiculous. A simple letter from a lawyer would suffice unless you're asking for a refund on the whole car.
If anything, they WANT warranty work because it's more $ in their pockets. Denying warranty work is like denying free money, literally.
Either way, talks about a trial are ridiculous. A simple letter from a lawyer would suffice unless you're asking for a refund on the whole car.
07-21-2018, 02:21 PM
#25
I recently test drove a pre-owned 2017 Targa 4S at a Porsche dealer here in FL that had Fabspeed headers, hi-flow cats and a GIAC tune. The SA told me if I had a problem with the engine or tranny they would look at it before denying a warranty claim out right. By the way, they did not install the Fabspeed items but they did install the GIAC tune so it goes to show that every dealer can decide how to handle things.
07-21-2018, 03:45 PM
#26
Drifting
That's really not even an accurate summary. The link below provides an accurate summary of the act.
https://www.mlmlaw.com/library/guide...s/undermag.htm
The Act address much more than aftermarket parts. Also, read the portion on "Tie-In Sales". That is more related to requiring a customer to buy only "genuine" parts to keep warranty in effect. That is more related to requiring someone to buy vacuum bag made by a vacuum manufacturer to receive warranty service, or maybe more applicable here, a cabin air filter sold by Porsche. It is not intended to cover items such as performance enhancing modifications. Note that the part related to "tie in Sales" does allow a manufacturer to state something like this in the warranty:
While necessary maintenance or repairs on your AudioMundo Stereo System can be performed by any company, we recommend that you use only authorized AudioMundo dealers. Improper or incorrectly performed maintenance or repair voids this warranty.
You might also want to read the warranty information that came with your car. In mine that came with my 2015 GTS, PCNA clearly states, among other things, in "This Warranty Does NOT Cover"
1. Parts that fail to lack of required maintenance or use of non-PCNA distributed parts.
2. Modifications not authorized by PCNA
3. You should also be aware that PCNA may deny you warranty coverage if your vehicle or part has failed due to abuse, neglect, improper maintenance, or UNAPPROVED MODIFICATIONS.
It's your car, do what you want.
https://www.mlmlaw.com/library/guide...s/undermag.htm
The Act address much more than aftermarket parts. Also, read the portion on "Tie-In Sales". That is more related to requiring a customer to buy only "genuine" parts to keep warranty in effect. That is more related to requiring someone to buy vacuum bag made by a vacuum manufacturer to receive warranty service, or maybe more applicable here, a cabin air filter sold by Porsche. It is not intended to cover items such as performance enhancing modifications. Note that the part related to "tie in Sales" does allow a manufacturer to state something like this in the warranty:
While necessary maintenance or repairs on your AudioMundo Stereo System can be performed by any company, we recommend that you use only authorized AudioMundo dealers. Improper or incorrectly performed maintenance or repair voids this warranty.
You might also want to read the warranty information that came with your car. In mine that came with my 2015 GTS, PCNA clearly states, among other things, in "This Warranty Does NOT Cover"
1. Parts that fail to lack of required maintenance or use of non-PCNA distributed parts.
2. Modifications not authorized by PCNA
3. You should also be aware that PCNA may deny you warranty coverage if your vehicle or part has failed due to abuse, neglect, improper maintenance, or UNAPPROVED MODIFICATIONS.
It's your car, do what you want.
Last edited by GSIRM3; 07-21-2018 at 04:20 PM.
07-21-2018, 04:09 PM
#27
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They started advertising the car at $135k and told me it had the tune, Fabspeed header, hi-flow cats and mufflers but it appeared the tips were stock so I asked. They contacted the shop that did the Fabspeed stuff and it turns out the mufflers were not changed. Again, the Service Manager said they would warranty the car. I saw it when the price had dropped to $125k and it was recently at $115k for a week or so and then it came off their site and others so I guess they sold it.
Last edited by Bob Z.; 07-22-2018 at 09:59 AM.
07-22-2018, 12:57 AM
#28
Race Director
My 2009 developed a cracked weld on a cat...that’s part of the exhaust header. I had a Tumi exhaust ...cat back..on the car that the deal,installed and sold me at time of delivery. PCNA wanted to deny the warranty claim. They stated the after market exhaust cause excess vibration and heat thus cracking the weld.
My 2012 GTS has a cat back after market very open and loud exhaust on it and after market suspension parts. Car developed a PDK fluid leak. Dealer knew I was putting car up for sale and warranty was close to running out on it....so dealer said put the car back to stock so they can prove the car was never modified and they can get it covered. Otherwise PCNA will look for a reason to deny claim.
The dealer doesn’t approve or have much to do with claims getting approved...Porsche makes that decision. Porsche is getting extremely strict on after market mods. So unless you can afford to replace a entire engine....there is no way I’d ever do a tune or any engine mod on a new Porsche....with the way Porsche is I question exhaust mod too.
Those that always say Magnuson Moss act....do not understand that law
My 2012 GTS has a cat back after market very open and loud exhaust on it and after market suspension parts. Car developed a PDK fluid leak. Dealer knew I was putting car up for sale and warranty was close to running out on it....so dealer said put the car back to stock so they can prove the car was never modified and they can get it covered. Otherwise PCNA will look for a reason to deny claim.
The dealer doesn’t approve or have much to do with claims getting approved...Porsche makes that decision. Porsche is getting extremely strict on after market mods. So unless you can afford to replace a entire engine....there is no way I’d ever do a tune or any engine mod on a new Porsche....with the way Porsche is I question exhaust mod too.
Those that always say Magnuson Moss act....do not understand that law
07-22-2018, 01:55 AM
#29
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This debate comes up every time a mod question is asked.
First if you dont have the sense to understand that if any modded part causes a failure its your dime then dont mod.
Second if you are going to mod your car to 700 plus hp you already know a big failure that is tune related is your dime.
Lastly these cars respond well to modding and the internals are well suited to reasonable hp increases. Choose your parts and tunes well and use proven vendors. Is there risk, yes but its your choice.
If your going to own these cars and fear even an exhaust mod then modding is not for you. A lot of fear and anxiety on this forum and for those modding is not a good option.
Porsche cant refuse to fix your seats or sunroof if you have a tune.
First if you dont have the sense to understand that if any modded part causes a failure its your dime then dont mod.
Second if you are going to mod your car to 700 plus hp you already know a big failure that is tune related is your dime.
Lastly these cars respond well to modding and the internals are well suited to reasonable hp increases. Choose your parts and tunes well and use proven vendors. Is there risk, yes but its your choice.
If your going to own these cars and fear even an exhaust mod then modding is not for you. A lot of fear and anxiety on this forum and for those modding is not a good option.
Porsche cant refuse to fix your seats or sunroof if you have a tune.
07-24-2018, 11:46 AM
#30
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A lot of times it’s not the dealer that is the issue. It is when the factory requests specifics such as computer and ecu data and and other verifications before approving payment for warranty work.