OT: Any 991 folks with prior AMG experience?
05-13-2018 | 02:09 PM
#1
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OT: Any 991 folks with prior AMG experience?
Look at this deal. Almost 1/2 off sticker for the absolute top of the food chain with 12K mile one the clock. Any thoughts about build quality, owning these out of warranty etc. They sure seem to depreciate like rocks.
http://www.cncexotics.com/detail-201...-17656515.html
Jim
http://www.cncexotics.com/detail-201...-17656515.html
Jim
05-13-2018 | 05:47 PM
#2
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Joined: Jan 2018
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From: Cincinnati
I sold my 2006 SL55 AMG for my first Porsche, my 991.1 C4S. The AMG was amazing but yes depreciation hits them all hard, very hard. I purchased mine used in 2013 with 40k miles on it for $38k. Initial sticker was $140k in 2006. I know the V8s were very bulletproof but I don’t know anything about the V12 reliability. Just remember it will be expensive to maintain since it was originally a $240k car!
05-13-2018 | 06:38 PM
#4
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From: Bay Area, CA
I just sold my 2012 C63 a month ago for 40% of selling price. Bought a new 2017 991.2 c2s with 20% off msrp, hoping it will hold more value in % than C63 after 4 years.
Really love my new porsche but I do miss the NA 6.2L v8....
Really love my new porsche but I do miss the NA 6.2L v8....
05-14-2018 | 11:46 AM
#7
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From: PA, USA
We had several AMG cars (all bought used). Great fun and all depreciated worse than any other car we've had (including Lambo).
I agree they aren't really sports cars (in the pure "Porsche" sense). Amazing torque and grunt, and wonderful touring but also quite heavy (hence not truly sporty).
Can be fun to drive but we've gravitated away from MB to Porsche although I'd consider one for a DD especially for road trips.
In our experience build quality was top notch. Maintenance can be very expensive out of warranty and it's the reason we sold the SL55 and S63.
Mercedes COMAND (I think that's how it's spelled) system controls just about the entire car, and if it fails it's expensive to repair (many thousands).
We found them highly reliable but once we got a taste of driving a Porsche - by comparison the MB felt heavy and not as "laser precise" (which isn't really important for a touring car).
The MB service experience was the best we've ever had which made the car easy to live with. Not cheap - but premium service and treated very well every time.
I agree they aren't really sports cars (in the pure "Porsche" sense). Amazing torque and grunt, and wonderful touring but also quite heavy (hence not truly sporty).
Can be fun to drive but we've gravitated away from MB to Porsche although I'd consider one for a DD especially for road trips.
In our experience build quality was top notch. Maintenance can be very expensive out of warranty and it's the reason we sold the SL55 and S63.
Mercedes COMAND (I think that's how it's spelled) system controls just about the entire car, and if it fails it's expensive to repair (many thousands).
We found them highly reliable but once we got a taste of driving a Porsche - by comparison the MB felt heavy and not as "laser precise" (which isn't really important for a touring car).
The MB service experience was the best we've ever had which made the car easy to live with. Not cheap - but premium service and treated very well every time.
Last edited by needmoregarage; 05-14-2018 at 02:31 PM.
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05-14-2018 | 12:09 PM
#8
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Just traded my 2010 C63 for a 2018 C4S. Really totally different cars. The AMG always starts in comfort mode, which is second gear, so unless you change it to sport or manual mode, you just feel like you are driving a powerful luxury vehicle more than an actual sports car. My C4S has manual trans and I love driving it. The AMG, as awesome as they sound, can never recreate that fun factor, imo.
Also, the V12 in this car takes the out of warranty maintenance to a whole other level. Historically, V12 cars depreciate like crazy, so not too surprising.
Also, the V12 in this car takes the out of warranty maintenance to a whole other level. Historically, V12 cars depreciate like crazy, so not too surprising.
05-14-2018 | 12:24 PM
#9
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The v12TT drivetrain is extremely solid in the 600/65. It's the rest of the bull****, and accessories that break. I'd still own one if someone still had a warranty on it. Depending on how much was replaced during the warranty would help me decide if I would keep the car. They are great values after they are a few years old imo. I'm a former M guy, but I really like the newest e63s, however I don't really like anything else they make. M cars I still appreciate but would never own a new one, too heavy and just don't feel as fun as yesteryear. I can understand why people still buy them and appreciate them, though they are still very good at what they do.
I also remember my first time in a sl65 with the top down and traction control off in the 2000s, silly car. One of my favorite cars of all time is the clk63 black series, even with the autotragic transmission.
I also remember my first time in a sl65 with the top down and traction control off in the 2000s, silly car. One of my favorite cars of all time is the clk63 black series, even with the autotragic transmission.
05-14-2018 | 12:43 PM
#10
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Joined: Nov 2017
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From: Southwest Florida
I’m a serial AMG buyer and really like what Mercedes has done with this division. Normally I would advise that you stay away from the S-class coupes because the depreciation is viscious and, despite Mercedes best efforts, it’s still somewhat of an rich old guy car.
Having said all that, the 2015 S65 is something to consider. If you factor a 12 year depreciation cycle and break it down according to where you are likely to find the best value relative to the remaining economic value in the car, the 2015 model year for this car is the sweet spot right now. It’s still going to depreciate but the previous owner has already absorbed the biggest chunk of depreciation over the shortest period. I’m not talking about the day it rolled off the dealer lot, but the second year of ownership.
The M279 engine in that car was introduced in the 2015 model year, it is based on the M277 engine that was introduced the year prior for Maybach but has enough new stuff to deserve a rev on the number designation. It’s a pretty amazing powerplant that has a legacy goes back a ways, it’s proven and is found in some really exotic stuff. Pagani uses the M158, which is nothing more than a bespoke M275. Mercedes has already gone public with their intention to phase out the V12 powerplants and replace them with something “special”... which just means a hybrid system derived from Project One. The 7g-tronic transmission is another high point, but I would much prefer they put the MCT in it (MCT is a version of the 7g-tronic without a torque converter, it uses a multi-disc wet clutch). My E63S wagon has the MCT 7 speed and the 2018 model expands it to 9 speeds, fabulous transmission on the same level with the PDK. This car is going to be one of the last V12 cars that is not a Ferrari.
Maintenance on any of these cars is an issue. They are the most complex vehicles ever made, no one should expect that they will be trouble free or cheap to maintain. Reliability and quality across Mercedes is no longer the issue that it was in the late 90’s when it threatened the very future of the company. Some of the best cars I have owned in the last 10 years have been Mercedes (some of the worst - Range Rover and Jaguar, but that is for another thread).
Having said all that, the 2015 S65 is something to consider. If you factor a 12 year depreciation cycle and break it down according to where you are likely to find the best value relative to the remaining economic value in the car, the 2015 model year for this car is the sweet spot right now. It’s still going to depreciate but the previous owner has already absorbed the biggest chunk of depreciation over the shortest period. I’m not talking about the day it rolled off the dealer lot, but the second year of ownership.
The M279 engine in that car was introduced in the 2015 model year, it is based on the M277 engine that was introduced the year prior for Maybach but has enough new stuff to deserve a rev on the number designation. It’s a pretty amazing powerplant that has a legacy goes back a ways, it’s proven and is found in some really exotic stuff. Pagani uses the M158, which is nothing more than a bespoke M275. Mercedes has already gone public with their intention to phase out the V12 powerplants and replace them with something “special”... which just means a hybrid system derived from Project One. The 7g-tronic transmission is another high point, but I would much prefer they put the MCT in it (MCT is a version of the 7g-tronic without a torque converter, it uses a multi-disc wet clutch). My E63S wagon has the MCT 7 speed and the 2018 model expands it to 9 speeds, fabulous transmission on the same level with the PDK. This car is going to be one of the last V12 cars that is not a Ferrari.
Maintenance on any of these cars is an issue. They are the most complex vehicles ever made, no one should expect that they will be trouble free or cheap to maintain. Reliability and quality across Mercedes is no longer the issue that it was in the late 90’s when it threatened the very future of the company. Some of the best cars I have owned in the last 10 years have been Mercedes (some of the worst - Range Rover and Jaguar, but that is for another thread).
05-14-2018 | 04:01 PM
#11
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I’m a serial AMG buyer and really like what Mercedes has done with this division. Normally I would advise that you stay away from the S-class coupes because the depreciation is viscious and, despite Mercedes best efforts, it’s still somewhat of an rich old guy car.
Having said all that, the 2015 S65 is something to consider. If you factor a 12 year depreciation cycle and break it down according to where you are likely to find the best value relative to the remaining economic value in the car, the 2015 model year for this car is the sweet spot right now. It’s still going to depreciate but the previous owner has already absorbed the biggest chunk of depreciation over the shortest period. I’m not talking about the day it rolled off the dealer lot, but the second year of ownership.
The M279 engine in that car was introduced in the 2015 model year, it is based on the M277 engine that was introduced the year prior for Maybach but has enough new stuff to deserve a rev on the number designation. It’s a pretty amazing powerplant that has a legacy goes back a ways, it’s proven and is found in some really exotic stuff. Pagani uses the M158, which is nothing more than a bespoke M275. Mercedes has already gone public with their intention to phase out the V12 powerplants and replace them with something “special”... which just means a hybrid system derived from Project One. The 7g-tronic transmission is another high point, but I would much prefer they put the MCT in it (MCT is a version of the 7g-tronic without a torque converter, it uses a multi-disc wet clutch). My E63S wagon has the MCT 7 speed and the 2018 model expands it to 9 speeds, fabulous transmission on the same level with the PDK. This car is going to be one of the last V12 cars that is not a Ferrari.
Maintenance on any of these cars is an issue. They are the most complex vehicles ever made, no one should expect that they will be trouble free or cheap to maintain. Reliability and quality across Mercedes is no longer the issue that it was in the late 90’s when it threatened the very future of the company. Some of the best cars I have owned in the last 10 years have been Mercedes (some of the worst - Range Rover and Jaguar, but that is for another thread).
Having said all that, the 2015 S65 is something to consider. If you factor a 12 year depreciation cycle and break it down according to where you are likely to find the best value relative to the remaining economic value in the car, the 2015 model year for this car is the sweet spot right now. It’s still going to depreciate but the previous owner has already absorbed the biggest chunk of depreciation over the shortest period. I’m not talking about the day it rolled off the dealer lot, but the second year of ownership.
The M279 engine in that car was introduced in the 2015 model year, it is based on the M277 engine that was introduced the year prior for Maybach but has enough new stuff to deserve a rev on the number designation. It’s a pretty amazing powerplant that has a legacy goes back a ways, it’s proven and is found in some really exotic stuff. Pagani uses the M158, which is nothing more than a bespoke M275. Mercedes has already gone public with their intention to phase out the V12 powerplants and replace them with something “special”... which just means a hybrid system derived from Project One. The 7g-tronic transmission is another high point, but I would much prefer they put the MCT in it (MCT is a version of the 7g-tronic without a torque converter, it uses a multi-disc wet clutch). My E63S wagon has the MCT 7 speed and the 2018 model expands it to 9 speeds, fabulous transmission on the same level with the PDK. This car is going to be one of the last V12 cars that is not a Ferrari.
Maintenance on any of these cars is an issue. They are the most complex vehicles ever made, no one should expect that they will be trouble free or cheap to maintain. Reliability and quality across Mercedes is no longer the issue that it was in the late 90’s when it threatened the very future of the company. Some of the best cars I have owned in the last 10 years have been Mercedes (some of the worst - Range Rover and Jaguar, but that is for another thread).
05-14-2018 | 05:28 PM
#12
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Joined: Nov 2017
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From: Southwest Florida
V12 engines... I really don't know what to expect. The VW Group is wholeheartedly embracing alternative power systems and I think that with Lamborghini we will see them shift to hybrid drivetrains. Porsche is clearly going there. Pre-dieselgate, I would have said that Lamborghini is insulated from the tidal shift that is happening, but I'm not so sure that is the case and, clearly, Ferrari is putting pressure on them on this front. Rolls Royce is an odd duck insofar as not being a performance vehicle or catering to a customer base that cares about virtue signaling, and they are certainly not having any issue selling cars. BMW is playing catch-up on a lot of fronts and you have to wonder what the macro-strategy is for the family of brands. Bugatti, hell they will do whatever they want to do and not give a damn about VW so I think it's safe to say the W16 is safe. Aston Martin is also still developing their V12 despite being 2 years into a deal with AMG to supply V8s.
I should amend my earlier statement, V12 engines will live on in boutique and bespoke vehicles but if we are talking about more than a 1,500 vehicles per year, I think it's safe to say that only Ferrari and Mercedes were doing those numbers with V12 models. What do you think?
05-14-2018 | 05:52 PM
#13
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 67
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Had a 2014 CLS63. Car was fast and looked great. Issues I had were the air shocks in the rear went out and the rear would sag overnight.
Was still under warranty, they replaced both rear shocks and the air pump and some valves. The cost was about $8,000. Not to mention the $1500 oil changes.
I miss the car but do not miss the maintenance on it.
I wouldn't own another one out of warranty.
Was still under warranty, they replaced both rear shocks and the air pump and some valves. The cost was about $8,000. Not to mention the $1500 oil changes.
I miss the car but do not miss the maintenance on it.
I wouldn't own another one out of warranty.
05-15-2018 | 02:41 AM
#15
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I'm enjoying the responses guys. Thanks for the feedback. I would never trade my GTS for one of these. On the other hand as a daily driver and GT cruiser, that S 65 looks amazing. Rolls Royce luxury with that monster handbuilt V12!
J
J