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GTS because it has the NA engine. I have a 2016 GTS (PDK) and it is by far the best car I have ever driven (although that may change when I pick up my GT3 Touring in Stuttgart in October). I heard a 991.2 drive by the other day. The turbo whistle and the turbo engine is a deal breaker for me. This topic has been discussed extensively on RL - many posts about which to buy, 991.1 or 991.2. All else being relatively equal (mileage, cost, specs), it comes down to whether you prefer the NA engine over the turbo engine and how much do the 991.2 upgrades mean to you (higher low-end torque due to the FI engine, rear wheel steering, Apple car play)?
I agree.
I was gonna say .1 GTS is my pick, no question, but I can see O/P is leaning that way. It's an absolute riot yet civilized at the same time. You'll appreciate how the drama inspires you (which to me is what sports cars are all about), and over time, the last of the N/A Carreras, none more than the GTS's, imo will pay off well in resale value. I love my modded base 3.4, but the .1 GTS is one of the most perfect 911's in history, if you ask me.
I hear you. And in rereading my post maybe I was a little TOO opinionated even if it was in a humble guise. I hear what you say re involvement but real world driving beat that outta me real quick in my 330Ci. The kicker is, pdk allows the same involvement, the same control, albeit without reaching down or pushing with my left foot. I still get to decide when I want more torque and I still get to slow the car with a whine and crackle as I dart into a corner. And it's faster. And I feel like I'm Jenson Button.
That's exactly how I feel. I still have full control, and more fun in some areas and maybe a little less fun but also less frustration compared to a manual. I wonder sometimes if the PDK naysayers just put it in automatic mode and dismiss it based on that?
That's exactly how I feel. I still have full control, and more fun in some areas and maybe a little less fun but also less frustration compared to a manual. I wonder sometimes if the PDK naysayers just put it in automatic mode and dismiss it based on that?
Could be! Until I get me new car I'm still driving my 2011 GL 450. I use the paddles all the time, not necessarily to slow down, but certainly to give me that extra boost when I need it.
I use manual mode 99% of time. However, you can't compare pdk manual mode with true stick shift. I don't even consider pdk manual mode a manual, it's computer aiding paddle switch. There is nothing manual about pdk but it's just a great transmission. I'm happy with pdk however, I sometimes miss manual shifting. I don't know but if I bought manual probably I'm thinking about pdk with my other side of brain.
I need to remember that my word is not gospel and that just because I have a strong opinion about something doesn’t mean I’m right. And, most of all, THANK GOD—we have choice.
Only opinion I could give is that the NA engines you really get the best pull during high revs, the turbo gives you alot more low end torque and may be better as a daily driver.
Hope that helps, both great choices though.
Not only does the turbo pull all the way to redline and pull stronger and stronger the closer you get to redline... It pulls stronger and harder than the NA all across the RPM range. The turbo is stronger than the NA in every single way.
This type of mis-information is not good for rennlist.
I use manual mode 99% of time. However, you can't compare pdk manual mode with true stick shift. I don't even consider pdk manual mode a manual, it's computer aiding paddle switch. There is nothing manual about pdk but it's just a great transmission. I'm happy with pdk however, I sometimes miss manual shifting. I don't know but if I bought manual probably I'm thinking about pdk with my other side of brain.
I appreciate a good manual, but I grew up with them and drove them for years and years, and I guess I don't romanticize them like some do. I'd love to have a manual again, but it would be in a more sedate car like a Boxster, not in a really high performance car. When I had my last manual, a 997TT, I kept wishing for a PDK so I wouldn't lose boost between gears, the notchy 1-2 shift bugged me, and honestly the car just felt slower than it really was. In the multiple dual clutch cars I've owned since, I haven't once wished any one of them was a manual. I think for modern high performance cars (which is my main interest), dual clutch transmissions work very well. If I had a slower and more raw car like the abovementioned Boxster that I would use for just cruising around, then a manual is extremely satisfying.
Nino - I disagree with a portion of your comment that "Not only does the turbo pull all the way to redline and pull stronger and stronger the closer you get to redline... It pulls stronger and harder than the NA all across the RPM range. The turbo is stronger than the NA in every single way." I have attached the torque curve for various 991.1 and 991.2 cars. Let's take the GTS, for example. You are correct in that the horsepower for the 991.2 GTS (dark green line) is greater than the horsepower of the 991.1 GTS (yellow line) at all revs. That is one of the advantages of a turbocharged engine - much greater horsepower can be squeezed out of the engine, particularly lower in the rev range. Note that the 991.2 GTS reaches it's peak horsepower of 450 bhp at about 6,500 RPMs. Meanwhile, the 991.1 GTS is a relative dog lower in the rev range and it "only" makes about 375 bhp at 6,500 RPM. But NA enthusiasts such as myself will opine that it is at the upper rev range where the NA engine really shines both from a bhp and from a sonic standpoint. The 991.2 GTS peters out at 6,500. It does not continue to pull stronger above 6,500. In fact, it loses about 25 bhp between 6,500 RPM and redline. The 991.1 GTS, on the other hand, continues to build horsepower up to about 7,500 RPMs. Note that the horsepower of the 991.1 GTS and 991.2 GTS are about the same at 7,500 RPMs. The 991.2 is on the downside of its powerband at that point, while the 991.1 is at its peak.
I am not saying one is better than the other, but they do have different power deliveries and it is not accurate to say that turbocharged engines build horsepower to redline. NA engines build horsepower closer to redline than do FI engines. I am not qualified to explain the physics behind this difference in FI and NA engines but it does make for a different driving experience. Both are awesome in their own way.
Well finally I have the 2015 911 GTS in my garage, I am in love again, what a great drive home and finally my childhood dream came true.
Thanks to all how contributed to this thread and this helped me indeed in my final selection, you are a bunch of awesome guys,
Now it is time to read the manual and get familiar with all the setting and the features the car has.
Well finally I have the 2015 911 GTS in my garage, I am in love again, what a great drive home and finally my childhood dream came true.
Thanks to all how contributed to this thread and this helped me indeed in my final selection, you are a bunch of awesome guys,
Now it is time to read the manual and get familiar with all the setting and the features the car has.
Thanks again, wooohooo
Bravo! Can’t wait to be in your shoes. Happy for you.
WT
I would need to know a little more about the build sheets for both cars. Does the 991.2 have PSE? What is the condition of the 991.1? Does it look like it has 22k miles (worn, etc) or does it look like the previous owner really, really took good care of it? Any dings, dents, rock chips, scratches? How is wear on the seats?
I am more of a PDK guy so that would be the deciding factor for me. If they were both PDK, for the same money I would probably lean towards the 991.2S - two years newer and 20k less miles, since you mentioned that it had a pretty nice build. If the miles were lower on the GTS or the build was really special and the condition immaculate, I might be swayed towards the 991.1. (I believe in buying the newest, lowest mileage one possible, all other things equal.) So many other things to consider, though - colors, etc. too.
Heck, 50k miles can look worn out, or it can look pretty darn close to new. The previous owner really, really matters in these cases.
Not only does the turbo pull all the way to redline and pull stronger and stronger the closer you get to redline... It pulls stronger and harder than the NA all across the RPM range. The turbo is stronger than the NA in every single way.
This type of mis-information is not good for rennlist.
Agreed, turbo is the better engine. The NA sounds pretty darn special and you need to "work" it a bit more, but better in really any regard aside from possibly sound and nostalgia? No. Just look at the difference in track times between the .1 and .2. The newer car is faster and more capable. Whether it fits your driving style and your needs better, that is a much different question.
I have never owned a .2 turbo, but have driven them, and they are heads and shoulders above the .1 engines. I have a couple of 997's that fit my needs well, but if I could get a 991.2 turbo for the $50-55k grand that a nice 997.2 costs, I would be driving it instead.
Nino - I disagree with a portion of your comment that "Not only does the turbo pull all the way to redline and pull stronger and stronger the closer you get to redline... It pulls stronger and harder than the NA all across the RPM range. The turbo is stronger than the NA in every single way." I have attached the torque curve for various 991.1 and 991.2 cars. Let's take the GTS, for example. You are correct in that the horsepower for the 991.2 GTS (dark green line) is greater than the horsepower of the 991.1 GTS (yellow line) at all revs. That is one of the advantages of a turbocharged engine - much greater horsepower can be squeezed out of the engine, particularly lower in the rev range. Note that the 991.2 GTS reaches it's peak horsepower of 450 bhp at about 6,500 RPMs. Meanwhile, the 991.1 GTS is a relative dog lower in the rev range and it "only" makes about 375 bhp at 6,500 RPM. But NA enthusiasts such as myself will opine that it is at the upper rev range where the NA engine really shines both from a bhp and from a sonic standpoint. The 991.2 GTS peters out at 6,500. It does not continue to pull stronger above 6,500. In fact, it loses about 25 bhp between 6,500 RPM and redline. The 991.1 GTS, on the other hand, continues to build horsepower up to about 7,500 RPMs. Note that the horsepower of the 991.1 GTS and 991.2 GTS are about the same at 7,500 RPMs. The 991.2 is on the downside of its powerband at that point, while the 991.1 is at its peak.
I am not saying one is better than the other, but they do have different power deliveries and it is not accurate to say that turbocharged engines build horsepower to redline. NA engines build horsepower closer to redline than do FI engines. I am not qualified to explain the physics behind this difference in FI and NA engines but it does make for a different driving experience. Both are awesome in their own way.
Indeed. And more important than actual stats, which mean about nothing in the real world of even remotely law-abiding driving, the way they build power creates a different sensation, which to me is of utmost importance to driving. A car with a flat torque band that pulls consistently along the powerband, versus a car with lower torque which starts to make its power, even if less than the aforementioned car, higher in the range and pulls all the way to redline, will feel very different. That's why the N/A cars have a more surprising (and imo more fun) pull high in the rev range, even if technically less actual power is going to the wheels, because of said sensation based on the powerband. Linear vs flat. Torque motors essentially start with power, keep that power, and then drop off a bit before redline. I prefer N/A, but not even making an argument as to which is better or worse (mostly subjective), but that the way they build speeds just gives far different impressions.
Originally Posted by ragabnh
Well finally I have the 2015 911 GTS in my garage, I am in love again, what a great drive home and finally my childhood dream came true.
Thanks to all how contributed to this thread and this helped me indeed in my final selection, you are a bunch of awesome guys,
Now it is time to read the manual and get familiar with all the setting and the features the car has.
Thanks again, wooohooo
CONGRATS! You got yourself a modern legend. Enjoy.
04-27-2018, 06:17 AM
