15 GTS or 17 S
#46
GTS because it has the NA engine. I have a 2016 GTS (PDK) and it is by far the best car I have ever driven (although that may change when I pick up my GT3 Touring in Stuttgart in October). I heard a 991.2 drive by the other day. The turbo whistle and the turbo engine is a deal breaker for me. This topic has been discussed extensively on RL - many posts about which to buy, 991.1 or 991.2. All else being relatively equal (mileage, cost, specs), it comes down to whether you prefer the NA engine over the turbo engine and how much do the 991.2 upgrades mean to you (higher low-end torque due to the FI engine, rear wheel steering, Apple car play)?
I was gonna say .1 GTS is my pick, no question, but I can see O/P is leaning that way. It's an absolute riot yet civilized at the same time. You'll appreciate how the drama inspires you (which to me is what sports cars are all about), and over time, the last of the N/A Carreras, none more than the GTS's, imo will pay off well in resale value. I love my modded base 3.4, but the .1 GTS is one of the most perfect 911's in history, if you ask me.
#47
I hear you. And in rereading my post maybe I was a little TOO opinionated even if it was in a humble guise. I hear what you say re involvement but real world driving beat that outta me real quick in my 330Ci. The kicker is, pdk allows the same involvement, the same control, albeit without reaching down or pushing with my left foot. I still get to decide when I want more torque and I still get to slow the car with a whine and crackle as I dart into a corner. And it's faster. And I feel like I'm Jenson Button.
#48
Could be! Until I get me new car I'm still driving my 2011 GL 450. I use the paddles all the time, not necessarily to slow down, but certainly to give me that extra boost when I need it.
#49
I use manual mode 99% of time. However, you can't compare pdk manual mode with true stick shift. I don't even consider pdk manual mode a manual, it's computer aiding paddle switch. There is nothing manual about pdk but it's just a great transmission. I'm happy with pdk however, I sometimes miss manual shifting. I don't know but if I bought manual probably I'm thinking about pdk with my other side of brain.
#51
This type of mis-information is not good for rennlist.
#52
I use manual mode 99% of time. However, you can't compare pdk manual mode with true stick shift. I don't even consider pdk manual mode a manual, it's computer aiding paddle switch. There is nothing manual about pdk but it's just a great transmission. I'm happy with pdk however, I sometimes miss manual shifting. I don't know but if I bought manual probably I'm thinking about pdk with my other side of brain.
#54
Drifting
Nino - I disagree with a portion of your comment that "Not only does the turbo pull all the way to redline and pull stronger and stronger the closer you get to redline... It pulls stronger and harder than the NA all across the RPM range. The turbo is stronger than the NA in every single way." I have attached the torque curve for various 991.1 and 991.2 cars. Let's take the GTS, for example. You are correct in that the horsepower for the 991.2 GTS (dark green line) is greater than the horsepower of the 991.1 GTS (yellow line) at all revs. That is one of the advantages of a turbocharged engine - much greater horsepower can be squeezed out of the engine, particularly lower in the rev range. Note that the 991.2 GTS reaches it's peak horsepower of 450 bhp at about 6,500 RPMs. Meanwhile, the 991.1 GTS is a relative dog lower in the rev range and it "only" makes about 375 bhp at 6,500 RPM. But NA enthusiasts such as myself will opine that it is at the upper rev range where the NA engine really shines both from a bhp and from a sonic standpoint. The 991.2 GTS peters out at 6,500. It does not continue to pull stronger above 6,500. In fact, it loses about 25 bhp between 6,500 RPM and redline. The 991.1 GTS, on the other hand, continues to build horsepower up to about 7,500 RPMs. Note that the horsepower of the 991.1 GTS and 991.2 GTS are about the same at 7,500 RPMs. The 991.2 is on the downside of its powerband at that point, while the 991.1 is at its peak.
I am not saying one is better than the other, but they do have different power deliveries and it is not accurate to say that turbocharged engines build horsepower to redline. NA engines build horsepower closer to redline than do FI engines. I am not qualified to explain the physics behind this difference in FI and NA engines but it does make for a different driving experience. Both are awesome in their own way.
I am not saying one is better than the other, but they do have different power deliveries and it is not accurate to say that turbocharged engines build horsepower to redline. NA engines build horsepower closer to redline than do FI engines. I am not qualified to explain the physics behind this difference in FI and NA engines but it does make for a different driving experience. Both are awesome in their own way.
#55
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Well finally I have the 2015 911 GTS in my garage, I am in love again, what a great drive home and finally my childhood dream came true.
Thanks to all how contributed to this thread and this helped me indeed in my final selection, you are a bunch of awesome guys,
Now it is time to read the manual and get familiar with all the setting and the features the car has.
Thanks again, wooohooo
Thanks to all how contributed to this thread and this helped me indeed in my final selection, you are a bunch of awesome guys,
Now it is time to read the manual and get familiar with all the setting and the features the car has.
Thanks again, wooohooo
#57
Well finally I have the 2015 911 GTS in my garage, I am in love again, what a great drive home and finally my childhood dream came true.
Thanks to all how contributed to this thread and this helped me indeed in my final selection, you are a bunch of awesome guys,
Now it is time to read the manual and get familiar with all the setting and the features the car has.
Thanks again, wooohooo
Thanks to all how contributed to this thread and this helped me indeed in my final selection, you are a bunch of awesome guys,
Now it is time to read the manual and get familiar with all the setting and the features the car has.
Thanks again, wooohooo
WT
#58
Three Wheelin'
I would need to know a little more about the build sheets for both cars. Does the 991.2 have PSE? What is the condition of the 991.1? Does it look like it has 22k miles (worn, etc) or does it look like the previous owner really, really took good care of it? Any dings, dents, rock chips, scratches? How is wear on the seats?
I am more of a PDK guy so that would be the deciding factor for me. If they were both PDK, for the same money I would probably lean towards the 991.2S - two years newer and 20k less miles, since you mentioned that it had a pretty nice build. If the miles were lower on the GTS or the build was really special and the condition immaculate, I might be swayed towards the 991.1. (I believe in buying the newest, lowest mileage one possible, all other things equal.) So many other things to consider, though - colors, etc. too.
I am more of a PDK guy so that would be the deciding factor for me. If they were both PDK, for the same money I would probably lean towards the 991.2S - two years newer and 20k less miles, since you mentioned that it had a pretty nice build. If the miles were lower on the GTS or the build was really special and the condition immaculate, I might be swayed towards the 991.1. (I believe in buying the newest, lowest mileage one possible, all other things equal.) So many other things to consider, though - colors, etc. too.
#59
Three Wheelin'
Not only does the turbo pull all the way to redline and pull stronger and stronger the closer you get to redline... It pulls stronger and harder than the NA all across the RPM range. The turbo is stronger than the NA in every single way.
This type of mis-information is not good for rennlist.
This type of mis-information is not good for rennlist.
I have never owned a .2 turbo, but have driven them, and they are heads and shoulders above the .1 engines. I have a couple of 997's that fit my needs well, but if I could get a 991.2 turbo for the $50-55k grand that a nice 997.2 costs, I would be driving it instead.
#60
Nino - I disagree with a portion of your comment that "Not only does the turbo pull all the way to redline and pull stronger and stronger the closer you get to redline... It pulls stronger and harder than the NA all across the RPM range. The turbo is stronger than the NA in every single way." I have attached the torque curve for various 991.1 and 991.2 cars. Let's take the GTS, for example. You are correct in that the horsepower for the 991.2 GTS (dark green line) is greater than the horsepower of the 991.1 GTS (yellow line) at all revs. That is one of the advantages of a turbocharged engine - much greater horsepower can be squeezed out of the engine, particularly lower in the rev range. Note that the 991.2 GTS reaches it's peak horsepower of 450 bhp at about 6,500 RPMs. Meanwhile, the 991.1 GTS is a relative dog lower in the rev range and it "only" makes about 375 bhp at 6,500 RPM. But NA enthusiasts such as myself will opine that it is at the upper rev range where the NA engine really shines both from a bhp and from a sonic standpoint. The 991.2 GTS peters out at 6,500. It does not continue to pull stronger above 6,500. In fact, it loses about 25 bhp between 6,500 RPM and redline. The 991.1 GTS, on the other hand, continues to build horsepower up to about 7,500 RPMs. Note that the horsepower of the 991.1 GTS and 991.2 GTS are about the same at 7,500 RPMs. The 991.2 is on the downside of its powerband at that point, while the 991.1 is at its peak.
I am not saying one is better than the other, but they do have different power deliveries and it is not accurate to say that turbocharged engines build horsepower to redline. NA engines build horsepower closer to redline than do FI engines. I am not qualified to explain the physics behind this difference in FI and NA engines but it does make for a different driving experience. Both are awesome in their own way.
I am not saying one is better than the other, but they do have different power deliveries and it is not accurate to say that turbocharged engines build horsepower to redline. NA engines build horsepower closer to redline than do FI engines. I am not qualified to explain the physics behind this difference in FI and NA engines but it does make for a different driving experience. Both are awesome in their own way.
Well finally I have the 2015 911 GTS in my garage, I am in love again, what a great drive home and finally my childhood dream came true.
Thanks to all how contributed to this thread and this helped me indeed in my final selection, you are a bunch of awesome guys,
Now it is time to read the manual and get familiar with all the setting and the features the car has.
Thanks again, wooohooo
Thanks to all how contributed to this thread and this helped me indeed in my final selection, you are a bunch of awesome guys,
Now it is time to read the manual and get familiar with all the setting and the features the car has.
Thanks again, wooohooo