.[/QUOTE] Lastly, if you decide to put O.Z. 19" wheels on a GTS, there will be clearence problems. I had this happen to me, and my local Independent implemented a fix that I will document next week, with pics.[/QUOTE]

Re. 991.2 GTS, the so called "fix" involved grinding a bit off the bottom of the real wheel carriers, UNACCEPTABLE. Clearance will probably be tight with all 19" wheel brands one would try to fit on a 991.2 GTS, impossible with O.Z. I had to sell the wheels and 2 sets of tires...took a "bath" on them. If only I had done the research in advance? Sound familiar? I have learned my lesson...research, research, research, talk to some pros, talk to someone one who has actually completed the project being considered.

 

My friend and DIY buddy Evan got the the part numbers for the Front and Rear hubs and bearings needed for the conversion. The Gaudin Porsche web site provided current pricing on these parts and the other required items such as lug studs and lug nuts. The cost is further reduced if the TPMS is swapped from the departing center locks to the nascent 5 lugs. I also included the cost of a set of new 5 lug wheels from APEX to include CA sales tax, $4,348. The total net cost of the project can be reduced dramatically using cheaper wheels, a brand other than APEX, or possibly used, maybe a savings of $1,500 to $1,000, and eliminating the 7.75% CA sales tax by buying from a private party. I have also included $1,800 for labor. 12 Hours at $150 an hour. The technician thinks this is fair.

For those that don't want to bother with the spread sheet, I estimate the Net cost of the conversion after the parts have been sold, to be <$2,688>***. Buying less expensive 5 lug wheels, would save from $1,000 to $1,500 a set. To get to the estimated CL to 5 lug project cost of <$2,688> all related center lock parts need to be sold including selling my 1/2 interest in a RENNtorq device.

Sure, I could stay with the Center Locks, sell my RENNtorq, and buy 1/2 interest in a HYTORQ tool, and see a net cost of only <$1,100>. The biggest thing about HYTORQ, you don't need to lock the front wheels, via a brake application, for them to be broken loose and tightened down, and no torque wrench is required, pretty sweet! But for my needs, HYTORQ wont do: I want to replace the current Center Locks with 5 lugs and get rid of those (Ugly to me), black wheels.

 

@Martin S. I am reluctant to get a 991 GT3 versus getting back into a 997.1 GT3 100% due to the Center Locks on the 991.

If you embark on this noble quest, can you please mention it here since I am subscribed to this thread and thus will know to look for the potential new thread?

Thanks,
Carm

 

I just posted on this thread...you can find me under Martin S. I hate Center Locks, at best a marketing scam.

 

Thanks Martin!

 

Self tightening CL nuts presented themselves earlier this week...couldn't break them loose with a 48" breaker bar. Why the *&^% would the front CL nuts self-tighten? I installed the wheels and torqued them to Factor Specs in October 2022. I had no choice. and had to address the seized CL front nuts, so off my Independent shop: In talking to the Techs, 2/13/23, they said that it is fairly routine for the CL wheels to tighten themselves down, over time., especially if track work is involved (I confess to a day to two). So maybe the way to beat this is to break the wheels loose every 6 months. For my appointment at the Independent, I requested they break the wheels loose, disassemble all the center lock nuts, and maintain them as required.

I also still considering HYTORQ. The process of swapping out the CL for 5 lugs would be a logistical hassle. And besides, I have to front $7,988 for parts and labor, and hopefully be reimbursed through the sale of the CL parts.

Selling used CL wheels is not a pleasant job (Ask me how I know this!). In the first place the market of CL wheels and the actual center lock nuts (4) is limited, and then there will the inevitable price "grind" to occur in the selling process. If there are any cosmetic flaws in the wheel, they must be addressed so the wheels can be represented as pristine. Figure $100 to $150 a wheel, $400 to $600 a set to get refinishing done. Once sold, there is the inevitable hassle to box up the wheels. If I were lucky enough to sell them for $4,000, deduct the refinishing cost,

Alternative: Considering HYTORQ, although not perfect (See below), and approximately $4,200. In the case of an over-torqued wheel, HYTORQ it is limited to 700 Lb.-Ft. of torque in the breaking loose process. If the wheels self tighten, or are subject to zealous over-tightening by a tech in excess of 700 Lb.-Ft., a 48" breaker bar will be needed.

But, assuming the wheels have been tightened to Factory Specs, and have remained in that state, the HYTORQ works nicely, and quite simply, to break the CL nut loose, and on the subsequent reinstall procedure, I will automatically tightening the lug to 443 ft-lbs., automatically backing it off 60 degrees, and then torque the CL nut to 443 Lb.-Ft. And no helper/assistant is ever needed to secure the steering wheel prevented the front wheels from veering right or left of center under torque.

Regardless of technique, me thinks it could be good practice to take the CL wheels off at least 1X per year, maybe even 2X. I also suspect tracking the car, may accelerate the self-tightening tendency of the wheel(s), if this in fact were to happen. .

I am still on the "fence", may drop the CL and go to 5 stud, or stick with my CL wheels and employ HYTORQ, or just stay with the present RENNtorq with the 48" breaker bar lurking in. the background, should put ever be required.

Vacillation is my middle name, it would seem.

 

I have thinking long and hard about this move, and as many have said, it will be expensive. And that it is: I calculate $7,988.33 total, with $6,188.33 in parts and $1,800 in labor. My Independent says it $1,800 is about right for the labor.

Offsetting $7,983.33 cost is the sale of the center lock (CL) wheels and the (CL) nuts, the CL removal lock and selling the 1/2 interest I have in a RENNtorq device. This should/could bring me about $5,600, leaving with a net cost for the conversion of about a <$2,389>. This is not much as far as upgrades go for a 991.2 car. BUT, it's the hassles and hurdles I have to jump over, that make the job just not worth it for me.

• Fronting the initial $7,988.33 which includes $4,348 for a set of new APEX wheels,
• Driving the car to LA (2 Hours) and leaving it in the shop in Van Nuys, UBER to LAX,
• Flying back to San Diego and eventually having to fly back to pick up the car. This is cheap on Alaska Air, $49 each way, and about the same for the LAX to Van Nuys UBER,
• Getting a 4 wheel alignment in Van Nuys, about $300,
• Driving the car across LA on the trip home, yuk, the traffic is always horrendous!
• And shortly thereafter, driving my wife's car back to the shop to pick up the center locks, and drive home, more yuk!
• To get top $$$ for the center locks, I'll could have to have them refinished, or at least detailed, more money, and I'll have to have the wheels spun up and certified as straight and true, more $$$,
• The hassle of the actual sale of the Center Locks and associated parts, and the certain price "grind", more yuk!
• Assuming I can sell the center locks, shipping them will be a hassle. I do have a place in San Diego who will box them and ship them for me, for a price, potentially reducing the net I had assumed for the center lock wheel, about $3,500

Botton line, I have nixed the project, too many hassles. I'll just have to make do with my RENNtorq. As result, going though the above hassles to change to 5 lug, just doesn't make sense to me. And selling the project to my wife, not that easy.

 

I'll say this: I went ahead and bit the bullet and ponied up for the HYTORC LiON torque gun, and it's the best money I've ever spent on anything Porsche related. Instead of futzing around with breaker bars, torque multipliers, having someone hold the wheel and press on the brakes (or messing with contraptions to do the same) I was able to (by myself) remove all four wheels and remount them. I timed myself, and removing all four wheels, replacing all four wheels (to include the proper Porsche procedure of backing off 60 degrees and re-torqueing them) took a grand total of 7 minutes and 43 seconds, and that's without rushing anything, just working slowly and methodically. It's worth every stinking penny, and will completely change the way you look at your centerlocks. They go from a total PITA to an actual time saver. I dreaded dealing with my centerlocks before, now I love them.

 

Can someone explain why i would pay someone like Dundon $5k for it when it's available elsewhere for $4k? Is it the same unit?

 

I've seen it for $4,800***....man that last testimonial on HYTORQ, got me thinking, and I'd split the cost with a DIY 991./2 GTS pal.

I had originally posted $4,200...that was an error.

 

I've never seen the Centerlock tool version going for under $4900 (I've seen them going for about $4300 Euro, not USD). The tool itself is the same as the regular HYTORC LION, however, it comes with a different reaction arm (with a Delrin sleeve to protect the wheels) and is programmed specifically to tighten the wheels according to Porsche spec (after all, it's not just "tighten to 443 ft/lbs", it's "tighten to 443 ft/lbs, loosen 60 degrees, tighten to 443 ft/lbs"). So, if you want to save a few hundred bucks (but then have to spend 20 minutes messing with the settings to get it to do what you want, and you want to spend a couple of hundred on a custom reaction arm, then by all means get the cheaper version.

 

If you can pick up the centerlock tool (not the regular HYTORC, but centerlock version) I'd ****** that up in a heartbeat. It'll completely change the way you view your centerlocks.
I still hate the aluminum grease, though. LOL

 

*** Different parts for a 991.2 CL to 5 lug conversion, I have been told.

 

Yeah, that's approximately what I paid for mine ($4800ish). It really has made these centerlocks a pleasure. I was washing my car earlier in the week, and I took off the wheels just to make it easier to clean inside them and clean the brake calipers. It's JUST. SO. EASY. with that tool. I can't overstate how much of a difference it makes in the ownership experience with centerlocks. Game changer.

 

I'm about to do the opposite on my 991.1 turbo, 5 lug to CL. My goal is have my local shop complete the task in a few weeks. PM me if you want my 5 lug parts, obviously I'll sell at whatever price is reasonable compared to you having to buy new from Porsche.