Dealer discount on order
04-17-2018, 09:56 AM
#16
PTS was cut-off for the GT3 a while ago (in fact, it was removed from 80+ orders) and has not been made available for the GT3 RS. If you are talking about the early 991.2 GT3s that were locked in long ago now, sure. Otherwise, no one is adding PTS on a GT# car right now unless it's a 2RS, of which there are relatively very few. ChicagoWhale can correct if any of this is wrong, but this is what has been documented on the GT3/RS board and also told to me by PCNA.
04-17-2018, 10:35 AM
#17
PTS was cut-off for the GT3 a while ago (in fact, it was removed from 80+ orders) and has not been made available for the GT3 RS. If you are talking about the early 991.2 GT3s that were locked in long ago now, sure. Otherwise, no one is adding PTS on a GT# car right now unless it's a 2RS, of which there are relatively very few. ChicagoWhale can correct if any of this is wrong, but this is what has been documented on the GT3/RS board and also told to me by PCNA.
Therefore is almost impossible for GTS and PTS color.
04-17-2018, 11:22 AM
#18
Three Wheelin'
04-17-2018, 06:45 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
I will offer my perspective as to why I received a great trade in offer for my 13 Boxster S, a lightly optioned car with the 6-speed manual (not as rare as in 911s). New it was 64k. I added PSE later from the dealer and some other trim bits which was a net investment of about 71k in the car (including new tires). All the work was done by the dealer as well as maintenance over 4 years to the tune of 3k. The car was in great condition and I had it detailed (200 bucks) before I went to the dealership to order my 911. They took about 30 minutes and offered me 44k, above Edmunds and KBB estimates. Why? Because the car was bought new from them, maintained by them and was in excellent condition. They were confident they could sell it for more and had it advertised for 51k. Doubt they sold it for that but probably 48k. It sold in 3 weeks.
I have had the same luck with my Volvos. I have bought 5 Volvos from the same dealer in the last 14 years. All the cars were bought new and serviced by the dealer including yearly detailing. I was always offered more than Edmunds or KBB estimates. A well maintained car with a service history from the dealer, in my experience, retains its value reasonably well and generally sells (to the dealer) at the higher end of the KBB/Edmunds estimates.
I am fairly confident that should I tire of my 911 (highly unlikely but one never knows), I will get a good deal from the dealer for another Porsche. As long as I buy parts from them and get the car serviced by them.
Of course, if you trade in the car for another brand or are a second owner or haven't maintained the car at the dealership, they are more likely to lowball you. Just my experience.
This also addresses the other thread where someone wants to buy a 2013 911 with a spotty service history. Did it have one oil change in 5 years or several that were not documented? Of course one can take a chance and buy the car and it may well turn out fine but don't expect to get a decent trade in value should you choose to sell it to a dealer. A private sale? Perhaps. But with that, you take your chances as well. If it is a keeper and all turns out well, then it is a bargain.
I have had the same luck with my Volvos. I have bought 5 Volvos from the same dealer in the last 14 years. All the cars were bought new and serviced by the dealer including yearly detailing. I was always offered more than Edmunds or KBB estimates. A well maintained car with a service history from the dealer, in my experience, retains its value reasonably well and generally sells (to the dealer) at the higher end of the KBB/Edmunds estimates.
I am fairly confident that should I tire of my 911 (highly unlikely but one never knows), I will get a good deal from the dealer for another Porsche. As long as I buy parts from them and get the car serviced by them.
Of course, if you trade in the car for another brand or are a second owner or haven't maintained the car at the dealership, they are more likely to lowball you. Just my experience.
This also addresses the other thread where someone wants to buy a 2013 911 with a spotty service history. Did it have one oil change in 5 years or several that were not documented? Of course one can take a chance and buy the car and it may well turn out fine but don't expect to get a decent trade in value should you choose to sell it to a dealer. A private sale? Perhaps. But with that, you take your chances as well. If it is a keeper and all turns out well, then it is a bargain.
04-17-2018, 07:15 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Its interesting to see the comments on this.
There ARE savings to the dealers on ordered cars, so we might expect discounts.
However, lots of variables are involved in the decision of the dealers to extend a discount.
There ARE savings to the dealers on ordered cars, so we might expect discounts.
However, lots of variables are involved in the decision of the dealers to extend a discount.
04-17-2018, 07:47 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
My experience is as follows:
6 months ago I went into my local dealer to buy a new 2017 leftover Cab S. Dealer was offering ~11% off sticker. I was trading in my 09 Targa. Before going In I gave the dealer all my history on my trade in. I had 85% of the maintenance done a said dealer. He offered my KBB as long as “everything checked out”. Went to dealer to consiment the deal. He nicked me for 4K off my trade due to the fact I had the 40k maintenance done at a indie(Porsche master tech that use to work at that dealer, also used by PCA for pre DE events). He claimed he would have to “re do the 40K to CPO the car. I left and and I need to think about it. He called me first thing in the morning and I said I’d sell my car privately, but I still want to buy the new car. I offered 13% off. He said his price was firm and basically hung up on me. I sold my car more than 20% more than he offered me and a month later bought my new 2017 Cab S at ~17% off. Win Win for me. BTW, a week later the manager of the pre owned dept said he has interest in my Targa and might be able to do better. LOL.
6 months ago I went into my local dealer to buy a new 2017 leftover Cab S. Dealer was offering ~11% off sticker. I was trading in my 09 Targa. Before going In I gave the dealer all my history on my trade in. I had 85% of the maintenance done a said dealer. He offered my KBB as long as “everything checked out”. Went to dealer to consiment the deal. He nicked me for 4K off my trade due to the fact I had the 40k maintenance done at a indie(Porsche master tech that use to work at that dealer, also used by PCA for pre DE events). He claimed he would have to “re do the 40K to CPO the car. I left and and I need to think about it. He called me first thing in the morning and I said I’d sell my car privately, but I still want to buy the new car. I offered 13% off. He said his price was firm and basically hung up on me. I sold my car more than 20% more than he offered me and a month later bought my new 2017 Cab S at ~17% off. Win Win for me. BTW, a week later the manager of the pre owned dept said he has interest in my Targa and might be able to do better. LOL.
04-17-2018, 09:06 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
My experience is as follows:
6 months ago I went into my local dealer to buy a new 2017 leftover Cab S. Dealer was offering ~11% off sticker. I was trading in my 09 Targa. Before going In I gave the dealer all my history on my trade in. I had 85% of the maintenance done a said dealer. He offered my KBB as long as “everything checked out”. Went to dealer to consiment the deal. He nicked me for 4K off my trade due to the fact I had the 40k maintenance done at a indie(Porsche master tech that use to work at that dealer, also used by PCA for pre DE events). He claimed he would have to “re do the 40K to CPO the car. I left and and I need to think about it. He called me first thing in the morning and I said I’d sell my car privately, but I still want to buy the new car. I offered 13% off. He said his price was firm and basically hung up on me. I sold my car more than 20% more than he offered me and a month later bought my new 2017 Cab S at ~17% off. Win Win for me. BTW, a week later the manager of the pre owned dept said he has interest in my Targa and might be able to do better. LOL.
6 months ago I went into my local dealer to buy a new 2017 leftover Cab S. Dealer was offering ~11% off sticker. I was trading in my 09 Targa. Before going In I gave the dealer all my history on my trade in. I had 85% of the maintenance done a said dealer. He offered my KBB as long as “everything checked out”. Went to dealer to consiment the deal. He nicked me for 4K off my trade due to the fact I had the 40k maintenance done at a indie(Porsche master tech that use to work at that dealer, also used by PCA for pre DE events). He claimed he would have to “re do the 40K to CPO the car. I left and and I need to think about it. He called me first thing in the morning and I said I’d sell my car privately, but I still want to buy the new car. I offered 13% off. He said his price was firm and basically hung up on me. I sold my car more than 20% more than he offered me and a month later bought my new 2017 Cab S at ~17% off. Win Win for me. BTW, a week later the manager of the pre owned dept said he has interest in my Targa and might be able to do better. LOL.
But if one is fussy about colors and options (as I am) the sort of discount you got is not possible. And I am very averse to private sales and the hassles involved unless it is to a person I know well.
04-17-2018, 09:13 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
I think that is great. Your experience is consistent with what dealers seem to expect. If you don't get your car serviced by them for every service, they get suspicious and try to lowball you. You were willing to take the time and effort to do a private sale. And you were willing to buy a leftover car with a hefty discount. In your case both worked for you.
But if one is fussy about colors and options (as I am) the sort of discount you got is not possible. And I am very averse to private sales and the hassles involved unless it is to a person I know well.
But if one is fussy about colors and options (as I am) the sort of discount you got is not possible. And I am very averse to private sales and the hassles involved unless it is to a person I know well.
I guess the point I’m trying to make is the dealer is going to make their money on way or another. Either by little discount on new or raking you on the trade in.
Last edited by gellie; 04-17-2018 at 09:29 PM.
04-17-2018, 11:52 PM
#25
Getting any kind of meaningful discount on an ordered 911 GTS allocation right now is next to impossible. For the first half of 2018, dealers in the US received almost no 911 GTS inventory. There’s very little supply and a 911 GTS is very easy merchandise for dealers to sell.
Everyone on Rennlist claims to get staggering discounts through super-power negotiation skills, so take those claims with a grain of salt.
There was a thread last year on Rennlist where a guy claimed to get nearly 20% off a new, in-stock GTS. What he didn’t tell the forum is that the car sat on the dealer lot for a year and a half. Very small dealer with a goofy configuration and desperate to get it off their floor plan.
Most GTS’s are sold closer to MSRP than invoice.
Everyone on Rennlist claims to get staggering discounts through super-power negotiation skills, so take those claims with a grain of salt.
There was a thread last year on Rennlist where a guy claimed to get nearly 20% off a new, in-stock GTS. What he didn’t tell the forum is that the car sat on the dealer lot for a year and a half. Very small dealer with a goofy configuration and desperate to get it off their floor plan.
Most GTS’s are sold closer to MSRP than invoice.
04-18-2018, 12:10 AM
#26
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
04-18-2018, 01:19 AM
#27
Racer
Join Date: May 2016
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PTS was cut-off for the GT3 a while ago (in fact, it was removed from 80+ orders) and has not been made available for the GT3 RS. If you are talking about the early 991.2 GT3s that were locked in long ago now, sure. Otherwise, no one is adding PTS on a GT# car right now unless it's a 2RS, of which there are relatively very few. ChicagoWhale can correct if any of this is wrong, but this is what has been documented on the GT3/RS board and also told to me by PCNA.
The only car car that is currently open to PTS is September (or later) GT2RS allocations. Or any Leipzig productions.
Now, all that being said, I have a sneaky feeling 2-3 PTS GT3RS’s might have “accidentally” gotten approval in the US. There’s always exceptions...
Last edited by ChicagoWhale; 04-18-2018 at 02:18 AM.
04-18-2018, 02:17 AM
#28
Racer
Join Date: May 2016
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My experience is as follows:
6 months ago I went into my local dealer to buy a new 2017 leftover Cab S. Dealer was offering ~11% off sticker. I was trading in my 09 Targa. Before going In I gave the dealer all my history on my trade in. I had 85% of the maintenance done a said dealer. He offered my KBB as long as “everything checked out”. Went to dealer to consiment the deal. He nicked me for 4K off my trade due to the fact I had the 40k maintenance done at a indie(Porsche master tech that use to work at that dealer, also used by PCA for pre DE events). He claimed he would have to “re do the 40K to CPO the car. I left and and I need to think about it. He called me first thing in the morning and I said I’d sell my car privately, but I still want to buy the new car. I offered 13% off. He said his price was firm and basically hung up on me. I sold my car more than 20% more than he offered me and a month later bought my new 2017 Cab S at ~17% off. Win Win for me. BTW, a week later the manager of the pre owned dept said he has interest in my Targa and might be able to do better. LOL.
6 months ago I went into my local dealer to buy a new 2017 leftover Cab S. Dealer was offering ~11% off sticker. I was trading in my 09 Targa. Before going In I gave the dealer all my history on my trade in. I had 85% of the maintenance done a said dealer. He offered my KBB as long as “everything checked out”. Went to dealer to consiment the deal. He nicked me for 4K off my trade due to the fact I had the 40k maintenance done at a indie(Porsche master tech that use to work at that dealer, also used by PCA for pre DE events). He claimed he would have to “re do the 40K to CPO the car. I left and and I need to think about it. He called me first thing in the morning and I said I’d sell my car privately, but I still want to buy the new car. I offered 13% off. He said his price was firm and basically hung up on me. I sold my car more than 20% more than he offered me and a month later bought my new 2017 Cab S at ~17% off. Win Win for me. BTW, a week later the manager of the pre owned dept said he has interest in my Targa and might be able to do better. LOL.
The base 911 used to be criticized for being somewhat underpowered, especially at the lower rpm band. With the new turbo engines, max torque is reached under 2k rpm, and has completely eliminated that problem. The base 911 is such a good engine and driving experience that it has hurt its middle brother, the 911S. Northern states still love the 4S, while GTS’s, Turbo’s and Turbo S’s still retail well everywhere. However, the 911 S is in some strange middle-ground and just hasn’t had much demand.
Similarly, 718’s are struggling to sell especially the 718 S’s. On paper, few people are willing to spend $90k on a 4-cylinder, so they won’t even consider it, no matter how fantastic it drives. Plus, clients who drive the base 718 find its power more than sufficient, considering it, too, reaches max torque under 2k rpm. Clients who can afford a $90k-ish 718 S usually pay a little more for a new 911 ($110k-ish), or they can buy a 1 year old CPO 911 for nearly the same price.
It should be noted, once clients drive the 718 S, the odds of them buying it dramatically increase because it’s truly a great driving car with fantastic power. History has proven many times over, never underestimate a small Porsche engine; Porsche is the king of extracting huge performance from small engines.
However, regardless of how right Porsche may think they are, the marketplace has spoken and demand for 718 S’s and 911 S’s just isn’t there. If you find a new 2017 still in dealer inventory, it’ll definitely be the best deal on the lot. Suddenly you’ll be grateful for “market pricing.”
Hope this adds some perspective.
04-18-2018, 08:18 AM
#29
Rennlist Member
Base and C4 models were hard to order last year and I don't think much has changed. My dealer had no allocations for a C4, my first choice. The C4 is a very rare animal. When I tried to order one, there were 5 in the whole country (US) and all PDKs too. I had to 'settle' for the 4S for which there were plenty of allocations. Porsche makes a great base 911 but wants to sell more of the S and GTS models. More profit. And dealers typically seem to order them with lots of options. My 4S, decently optioned for me, had an MSRP of 131k. Typical 4S cars I see on the lot have MSRPs above 140k.
Regarding the 718, if you have owned a flat six Porsche, it is very hard to get used to the sound of the 4 cylinder turbo regardless of performance. Frankly, it sounds terrible to me although others don't seem to care that much.
Regarding the 718, if you have owned a flat six Porsche, it is very hard to get used to the sound of the 4 cylinder turbo regardless of performance. Frankly, it sounds terrible to me although others don't seem to care that much.
04-18-2018, 08:49 AM
#30
Rennlist Member
I got a 2018 C4 and it was very difficult to get. My premier dealer had to barter with another dealer to get the allocation. I got 5% off + $3000 for European delivery. I was a repeat buyer and had a fantastic relationship with my dealer (SA). I got the exact same deal on my first Porsche (2014 981 Boxster S) . 5% off plus European Delivery but I had to barter between 7 different dealerships in the area and I did not have a prior relationship. It was hard.
Guys that are getting more than 5% off are getting exceptional and rare deals. I think (my opinion) that most folks who respond to threads like these got good deals, traded in cars so their good discount is actually masked or got a car off the lot that nobody wanted. The folks who paid MSRP or who only got 1-2% off generally don't respond to these threads so the appearance is that 5 - 10% off is the norm. It is not.
Guys that are getting more than 5% off are getting exceptional and rare deals. I think (my opinion) that most folks who respond to threads like these got good deals, traded in cars so their good discount is actually masked or got a car off the lot that nobody wanted. The folks who paid MSRP or who only got 1-2% off generally don't respond to these threads so the appearance is that 5 - 10% off is the norm. It is not.