how I learned to not hate auto start-stop
03-09-2018, 09:02 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
Agreed. I haven’t driven my car enough to have a fair opinion of keeping it on or off. But I believe if this system is flawed, Porsche might be forced to do a fix like the dreaded IMS flaw?
03-09-2018, 09:27 PM
#62
Pro
Thread Starter
Everyone commenting about premature starter failure, engine wear, etc... if you make that argument you are effectively making an argument in favor of reduced idling time via start/stop. If using a component decreases its life, then sitting at a stoplight idling is using your engine, electrical compontents, and often under increased load with AC running. Therefore, decreasing idling time would, in effect, prolong engine life.
Idling an engine also exposes you to increased mechanical risk due to incomplete fuel combustion, which can deteriorate the ignition components and dirties your engine oil (black engine oil gets that way from cylinder deposits and residual fuel being wiped into the oil system from the piston rings). Idling also runs the engine at a less than optimal temperature which causes condensation in the exhaust system, and in hot weather the engine does not benefit from air flow washing over it and because air is a poor conductor, stagnant air in an engine compartment acts as an insulator with the engine solely dependent on the fans for cooling. Heat is a far greater enemy to mechanical components than usage. Basically, whatever increased cost in terms of starter system wear is going to be offset by decreased wear everywhere else.
I am the OP on this thread and I wrote it to simply share my experience with this feature, not get into an ideological pissing contest or delve into issues about the government controlling our lives. I realize people have a strong opinion about start/stop but if this is something that causes you to get emotional, well I’d suggest taking a Xanax. Seriously, this is an enthusiast community and if you disagreeing with someone about something so trivial causes you want to go to all caps, time to re-assess priorities. The internet and social media is full of rage, it would be nice to have this be a place where that can be escaped while talking about things we all agree on... cars.
Idling an engine also exposes you to increased mechanical risk due to incomplete fuel combustion, which can deteriorate the ignition components and dirties your engine oil (black engine oil gets that way from cylinder deposits and residual fuel being wiped into the oil system from the piston rings). Idling also runs the engine at a less than optimal temperature which causes condensation in the exhaust system, and in hot weather the engine does not benefit from air flow washing over it and because air is a poor conductor, stagnant air in an engine compartment acts as an insulator with the engine solely dependent on the fans for cooling. Heat is a far greater enemy to mechanical components than usage. Basically, whatever increased cost in terms of starter system wear is going to be offset by decreased wear everywhere else.
I am the OP on this thread and I wrote it to simply share my experience with this feature, not get into an ideological pissing contest or delve into issues about the government controlling our lives. I realize people have a strong opinion about start/stop but if this is something that causes you to get emotional, well I’d suggest taking a Xanax. Seriously, this is an enthusiast community and if you disagreeing with someone about something so trivial causes you want to go to all caps, time to re-assess priorities. The internet and social media is full of rage, it would be nice to have this be a place where that can be escaped while talking about things we all agree on... cars.
03-09-2018, 10:51 PM
#63
Rennlist Member
jnolan, I too see enough rage elsewhere, but as an enthusiast forum, I expect (and usually enjoy) seeing some passion.
And I agree about the negative impacts of excessive idling, so maybe we should opt out of red lights?
And I agree about the negative impacts of excessive idling, so maybe we should opt out of red lights?
03-10-2018, 12:27 AM
#65
Burning Brakes
Everyone commenting about premature starter failure, engine wear, etc... if you make that argument you are effectively making an argument in favor of reduced idling time via start/stop. If using a component decreases its life, then sitting at a stoplight idling is using your engine, electrical compontents, and often under increased load with AC running. Therefore, decreasing idling time would, in effect, prolong engine life.
Idling an engine also exposes you to increased mechanical risk due to incomplete fuel combustion, which can deteriorate the ignition components and dirties your engine oil (black engine oil gets that way from cylinder deposits and residual fuel being wiped into the oil system from the piston rings). Idling also runs the engine at a less than optimal temperature which causes condensation in the exhaust system, and in hot weather the engine does not benefit from air flow washing over it and because air is a poor conductor, stagnant air in an engine compartment acts as an insulator with the engine solely dependent on the fans for cooling. Heat is a far greater enemy to mechanical components than usage. Basically, whatever increased cost in terms of starter system wear is going to be offset by decreased wear everywhere else.
I am the OP on this thread and I wrote it to simply share my experience with this feature, not get into an ideological pissing contest or delve into issues about the government controlling our lives. I realize people have a strong opinion about start/stop but if this is something that causes you to get emotional, well I’d suggest taking a Xanax. Seriously, this is an enthusiast community and if you disagreeing with someone about something so trivial causes you want to go to all caps, time to re-assess priorities. The internet and social media is full of rage, it would be nice to have this be a place where that can be escaped while talking about things we all agree on... cars.
Idling an engine also exposes you to increased mechanical risk due to incomplete fuel combustion, which can deteriorate the ignition components and dirties your engine oil (black engine oil gets that way from cylinder deposits and residual fuel being wiped into the oil system from the piston rings). Idling also runs the engine at a less than optimal temperature which causes condensation in the exhaust system, and in hot weather the engine does not benefit from air flow washing over it and because air is a poor conductor, stagnant air in an engine compartment acts as an insulator with the engine solely dependent on the fans for cooling. Heat is a far greater enemy to mechanical components than usage. Basically, whatever increased cost in terms of starter system wear is going to be offset by decreased wear everywhere else.
I am the OP on this thread and I wrote it to simply share my experience with this feature, not get into an ideological pissing contest or delve into issues about the government controlling our lives. I realize people have a strong opinion about start/stop but if this is something that causes you to get emotional, well I’d suggest taking a Xanax. Seriously, this is an enthusiast community and if you disagreeing with someone about something so trivial causes you want to go to all caps, time to re-assess priorities. The internet and social media is full of rage, it would be nice to have this be a place where that can be escaped while talking about things we all agree on... cars.
03-12-2018, 04:41 AM
#66
Everyone commenting about premature starter failure, engine wear, etc... if you make that argument you are effectively making an argument in favor of reduced idling time via start/stop. If using a component decreases its life, then sitting at a stoplight idling is using your engine, electrical compontents, and often under increased load with AC running. Therefore, decreasing idling time would, in effect, prolong engine life.
Idling an engine also exposes you to increased mechanical risk due to incomplete fuel combustion, which can deteriorate the ignition components and dirties your engine oil (black engine oil gets that way from cylinder deposits and residual fuel being wiped into the oil system from the piston rings). Idling also runs the engine at a less than optimal temperature which causes condensation in the exhaust system, and in hot weather the engine does not benefit from air flow washing over it and because air is a poor conductor, stagnant air in an engine compartment acts as an insulator with the engine solely dependent on the fans for cooling. Heat is a far greater enemy to mechanical components than usage. Basically, whatever increased cost in terms of starter system wear is going to be offset by decreased wear everywhere else.
I am the OP on this thread and I wrote it to simply share my experience with this feature, not get into an ideological pissing contest or delve into issues about the government controlling our lives. I realize people have a strong opinion about start/stop but if this is something that causes you to get emotional, well I’d suggest taking a Xanax. Seriously, this is an enthusiast community and if you disagreeing with someone about something so trivial causes you want to go to all caps, time to re-assess priorities. The internet and social media is full of rage, it would be nice to have this be a place where that can be escaped while talking about things we all agree on... cars.
Idling an engine also exposes you to increased mechanical risk due to incomplete fuel combustion, which can deteriorate the ignition components and dirties your engine oil (black engine oil gets that way from cylinder deposits and residual fuel being wiped into the oil system from the piston rings). Idling also runs the engine at a less than optimal temperature which causes condensation in the exhaust system, and in hot weather the engine does not benefit from air flow washing over it and because air is a poor conductor, stagnant air in an engine compartment acts as an insulator with the engine solely dependent on the fans for cooling. Heat is a far greater enemy to mechanical components than usage. Basically, whatever increased cost in terms of starter system wear is going to be offset by decreased wear everywhere else.
I am the OP on this thread and I wrote it to simply share my experience with this feature, not get into an ideological pissing contest or delve into issues about the government controlling our lives. I realize people have a strong opinion about start/stop but if this is something that causes you to get emotional, well I’d suggest taking a Xanax. Seriously, this is an enthusiast community and if you disagreeing with someone about something so trivial causes you want to go to all caps, time to re-assess priorities. The internet and social media is full of rage, it would be nice to have this be a place where that can be escaped while talking about things we all agree on... cars.
I agree here. I always find it amusing in these convos how little attention is paid to the harms of letting a car idle. If you were to calculate the amount of idling time an AS/S will save, I’m thinking that figure would be surprising, and more paramount to the cars health than auto startups.
03-12-2018, 09:08 AM
#67
Race Car
The 911 is the first car I have owned where start/stop (eco mode) could not be set to “off” by default. I have gone through the 7 stages of grief (yes there are really only 5 stages of grief but I like having 7 gears so I added 2):
- Awareness: “whoa, did the car just stall? Oh yeah, eco mode”
- Discovery: “Okay, button on the console turns it off. Cool.”
- Denial: “so I can’t turn this so-called feature off by default? That can’t be true, (fade to Google)”
- Anger: “WTF”
- Negotiation (Porsche SA): “Come on, I know you can do it with you diagnostic computer. Nobody needs to know”
- Accommodation: “Well at least I can turn it off with Individual mode”
- Acceptance: “Maybe this thing isn’t so bad after all
The feature that got me to accept start/stop is the coasting mode that is also enabled. I started with baby steps, leaving start/stop activated while on the freeway to maximize mileage using all the tools they give me. Coast mode is pretty neat and I’m constantly surprised by the lack of rolling resistance at speed in these cars. Then I stepped up to leaving it active around town, mostly on the morning school run to drop off my kids. The feature itself is pretty responsive and the detail about “the vehicle was driven at speed above 1mph for more than 1.5 seconds” is what makes the start/stop manageable in stopsign traffic where you are creeping forward one vehicle at a time. All things considered, I don’t mind having this active but I do have my Individual mode setup to turn it off (and only this) and the majority of the time I do drive with it off.
- Awareness: “whoa, did the car just stall? Oh yeah, eco mode”
- Discovery: “Okay, button on the console turns it off. Cool.”
- Denial: “so I can’t turn this so-called feature off by default? That can’t be true, (fade to Google)”
- Anger: “WTF”
- Negotiation (Porsche SA): “Come on, I know you can do it with you diagnostic computer. Nobody needs to know”
- Accommodation: “Well at least I can turn it off with Individual mode”
- Acceptance: “Maybe this thing isn’t so bad after all
The feature that got me to accept start/stop is the coasting mode that is also enabled. I started with baby steps, leaving start/stop activated while on the freeway to maximize mileage using all the tools they give me. Coast mode is pretty neat and I’m constantly surprised by the lack of rolling resistance at speed in these cars. Then I stepped up to leaving it active around town, mostly on the morning school run to drop off my kids. The feature itself is pretty responsive and the detail about “the vehicle was driven at speed above 1mph for more than 1.5 seconds” is what makes the start/stop manageable in stopsign traffic where you are creeping forward one vehicle at a time. All things considered, I don’t mind having this active but I do have my Individual mode setup to turn it off (and only this) and the majority of the time I do drive with it off.
I'm going to give it a shot when my car arrives. In my two previous 991.1S's, I usually left it off.
I am also amazed that this thread has gone to five pages..
03-18-2018, 08:53 PM
#68
When I first got my previously owned 991.1 with PDK, I was parallel parking in front of a restaurant. You know the kind where people are sitting at tables outside. Anyway I was being careful since I had just gotten the car and didn't want to curb the wheels. I forgot about the auto start stop. Everytime I went from F to R or R to F the engine would shut off. I'm sure the onlookers were all thinking that this idiot didn't know how to drive a manual and was killing the engine.
03-18-2018, 09:08 PM
#69
When I first got my previously owned 991.1 with PDK, I was parallel parking in front of a restaurant. You know the kind where people are sitting at tables outside. Anyway I was being careful since I had just gotten the car and didn't want to curb the wheels. I forgot about the auto start stop. Everytime I went from F to R or R to F the engine would shut off. I'm sure the onlookers were all thinking that this idiot didn't know how to drive a manual and was killing the engine.
Either that or they were all Porsche enthusiasts thinking to themselves “ what idiot uses the Start / Stop? “ Haha