FVD HEADER REVIEW 991#1
03-04-2018, 01:52 AM
#16
03-04-2018, 09:11 AM
#18
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Where aspirations are natural
Posts: 4,389
Likes: 0
Received 41 Likes
on
32 Posts
Cliff's Notes on 911 exhausts: the only power to be gained with aftermarket headers is on the 1975-1994 911's, which didn't use headers, but unequal length manifolds. You can't improve on the early headers. You can't improve on the 993 headers. And you really can't improve on the 991's. These are all equal-length designs. You can use aftermarket headers to move the power curve around the RPM range a tiny bit, but it's so minuscule I don't really understand why anyone bothers.
The factory headers are shorter and noticeably smaller in diameter. Factory flanges are also not as robust. Also, the Cat does make a significant difference. Remember, all cats are due to government regulation and not design/engineering. Anything to improve this is a drastic difference. FVD flanges will help with heat. Lastly, the FVD headers are heavier than the soul race headers but lighter than factory so there's that benefit too.
I had the cat bypass option and actually lost a little power, With no tune, this product gained a little up top and more in the middle.
Driving has been limited but the car is sharper and more responsive. I can feel the transition to Cam @ ~4500 is much smoother.
Also, (and I appreciate the snarky jab btw!) the car sounds quieter AND BETTER, yet a tiny bit faster
03-04-2018, 09:28 AM
#19
mmmm thats not correct, I paid for two new turbos and 8 hours of labour (X51 - about 8k $USD)..........this yielded an extra 50Nm of torque from 2000RPM plus a peak gain of 30HP (along with mapping to PTV-E, PDK and RAS). The under the curve gains are very significant relative to the $ spent.
Good to see you holding the tuners to account......but 4K for 11HP is not really great bang for buck
Good to see you holding the tuners to account......but 4K for 11HP is not really great bang for buck
03-04-2018, 09:29 AM
#20
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Where aspirations are natural
Posts: 4,389
Likes: 0
Received 41 Likes
on
32 Posts
mmmm thats not correct, I paid for two new turbos and 8 hours of labour. (X51)..........this yielded an extra 50Nm of torque from 2000RPM plus a peak gain of 30HP (along with mapping to PTV-E, PDK and RAS). The under the curve gains are very significant relative to the $ spent.
Good to see you holding the tuners to account......but 4K for 11HP is not really great bang for buck
Good to see you holding the tuners to account......but 4K for 11HP is not really great bang for buck
Lots of focus on 11whp on the top end but not enough on the ~20whp low/mid
03-04-2018, 09:34 AM
#21
03-04-2018, 10:12 AM
#22
Intermediate
Prior to the FVD headers were you running the oem or Soul headers. I’m a little confused as to which you are comparing to. Thanks so much for sharing you results.
03-04-2018, 10:15 AM
#23
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Where aspirations are natural
Posts: 4,389
Likes: 0
Received 41 Likes
on
32 Posts
Comparing to soul. I did a soul review and power was pretty much the same on soul vs stock, including the curve - just significant change in sound.
03-04-2018, 04:23 PM
#24
Intermediate
I'm starting to get the mod bug myself and this thread isn't helping any 
. I have a 991 3.4l with AWE x-pipe and a COBB tune. I said that's it. I am happy with both. The x-pipe for sound and the COBB tuning for a little increase in power. On that note, I recently had Michelin PS4S put on at the dealer so I replaced the COBB tune with the factory tune. Wow, I missed it immediately. I decided to leave it that way for a couple weeks to get use to it then put the COBB tune back in. Simply it's a nice change, the engine is more responsive with better low/mid through high RPM. Anyway my point is it got me thinking if I could get just a little more. I know the return for $ is low, if you really want more power get an S...or 991.2...well that's not going to happen. Love the one your with...right
Ok so I'm curious how difficult it was and what tools you used to access the header bolts. I found a few Youtube posts for headers and the IPD plenum. One said he couldn't completely tighten one of the header bolts for the Fabspeed headers. The FVD looks even more crowded.
Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen these Youtube videos posted here. There are ones for the IPD plenum and headers and a few others by the same posters. The IPD plenum I'm thinking may not be worth it....and you have to lower the engine...which turns out doesn't look too difficult.
Again very interested in you result. Here are links to the videos if you haven't already seen them.
. I have a 991 3.4l with AWE x-pipe and a COBB tune. I said that's it. I am happy with both. The x-pipe for sound and the COBB tuning for a little increase in power. On that note, I recently had Michelin PS4S put on at the dealer so I replaced the COBB tune with the factory tune. Wow, I missed it immediately. I decided to leave it that way for a couple weeks to get use to it then put the COBB tune back in. Simply it's a nice change, the engine is more responsive with better low/mid through high RPM. Anyway my point is it got me thinking if I could get just a little more. I know the return for $ is low, if you really want more power get an S...or 991.2...well that's not going to happen. Love the one your with...rightOk so I'm curious how difficult it was and what tools you used to access the header bolts. I found a few Youtube posts for headers and the IPD plenum. One said he couldn't completely tighten one of the header bolts for the Fabspeed headers. The FVD looks even more crowded.
Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen these Youtube videos posted here. There are ones for the IPD plenum and headers and a few others by the same posters. The IPD plenum I'm thinking may not be worth it....and you have to lower the engine...which turns out doesn't look too difficult.
Again very interested in you result. Here are links to the videos if you haven't already seen them.
03-04-2018, 04:55 PM
#25
I mean that argument doesn't really work at the limit - when you get an S, then you need the turbo, then you need a 918, then you need a spaceship- it goes to infinity like that.
A few k on mods (fully reversible) to make your car yours and to make it a more fun ride? It's definitely not an investment to get more hp, it's purely an expense and it's mostly for fun, but people spend more on worse things that's for sure. I think of it as a way to save money since it might actually delay me getting into a new car by making my own car more interesting/"new".
I've ridden as passenger in a few 987/981/991 cars w catless headers & various modified exhausts at the track and the noise is just off the charts good - you get goosebumps.
I think power benefits of going decat is hard to dispute but I also heard mixed feedback about the IPD Plenum as well on this platform - R_Rated said more air which makes conventional sense but I'm inclined to pass on the plenum side. Just never saw any data. I'm aware of dyno proven benefits from decat+tune on 981 Cayman S's, GT4s etc though, and identical but tuned cars pulling on me at racetracks. 10-20 whp sustained across the power band is actually quite a difference, I say at the risk of being ridiculed by the turbo crowd.
Disclaimer: Decat headers are for "off-road" use only.
A few k on mods (fully reversible) to make your car yours and to make it a more fun ride? It's definitely not an investment to get more hp, it's purely an expense and it's mostly for fun, but people spend more on worse things that's for sure. I think of it as a way to save money since it might actually delay me getting into a new car by making my own car more interesting/"new".
I've ridden as passenger in a few 987/981/991 cars w catless headers & various modified exhausts at the track and the noise is just off the charts good - you get goosebumps.
I think power benefits of going decat is hard to dispute but I also heard mixed feedback about the IPD Plenum as well on this platform - R_Rated said more air which makes conventional sense but I'm inclined to pass on the plenum side. Just never saw any data. I'm aware of dyno proven benefits from decat+tune on 981 Cayman S's, GT4s etc though, and identical but tuned cars pulling on me at racetracks. 10-20 whp sustained across the power band is actually quite a difference, I say at the risk of being ridiculed by the turbo crowd.
Disclaimer: Decat headers are for "off-road" use only.
03-04-2018, 05:40 PM
#26
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Where aspirations are natural
Posts: 4,389
Likes: 0
Received 41 Likes
on
32 Posts
I'm starting to get the mod bug myself and this thread isn't helping any . I have a 991 3.4l with AWE x-pipe and a COBB tune. I said that's it. I am happy with both. The x-pipe for sound and the COBB tuning for a little increase in power. On that note, I recently had Michelin PS4S put on at the dealer so I replaced the COBB tune with the factory tune. Wow, I missed it immediately. I decided to leave it that way for a couple weeks to get use to it then put the COBB tune back in. Simply it's a nice change, the engine is more responsive with better low/mid through high RPM. Anyway my point is it got me thinking if I could get just a little more. I know the return for $ is low, if you really want more power get an S...or 991.2...well that's not going to happen. Love the one your with...right
Ok so I'm curious how difficult it was and what tools you used to access the header bolts. I found a few Youtube posts for headers and the IPD plenum. One said he couldn't completely tighten one of the header bolts for the Fabspeed headers. The FVD looks even more crowded.
Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen these Youtube videos posted here. There are ones for the IPD plenum and headers and a few others by the same posters. The IPD plenum I'm thinking may not be worth it....and you have to lower the engine...which turns out doesn't look too difficult.
Again very interested in you result. Here are links to the videos if you haven't already seen them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24F5aYlJmck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gr7yc4yp1M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blFQhFlyOes
. I have a 991 3.4l with AWE x-pipe and a COBB tune. I said that's it. I am happy with both. The x-pipe for sound and the COBB tuning for a little increase in power. On that note, I recently had Michelin PS4S put on at the dealer so I replaced the COBB tune with the factory tune. Wow, I missed it immediately. I decided to leave it that way for a couple weeks to get use to it then put the COBB tune back in. Simply it's a nice change, the engine is more responsive with better low/mid through high RPM. Anyway my point is it got me thinking if I could get just a little more. I know the return for $ is low, if you really want more power get an S...or 991.2...well that's not going to happen. Love the one your with...rightOk so I'm curious how difficult it was and what tools you used to access the header bolts. I found a few Youtube posts for headers and the IPD plenum. One said he couldn't completely tighten one of the header bolts for the Fabspeed headers. The FVD looks even more crowded.
Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen these Youtube videos posted here. There are ones for the IPD plenum and headers and a few others by the same posters. The IPD plenum I'm thinking may not be worth it....and you have to lower the engine...which turns out doesn't look too difficult.
Again very interested in you result. Here are links to the videos if you haven't already seen them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24F5aYlJmck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gr7yc4yp1M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blFQhFlyOes
A plenum, 82mm throttle body and headers will wake up your car a lot. Everything is sharper. I just added the tune today... OMG! Can’t wait to add the plenum and filters this week. The sharpness and accessibility to power are already very noticeable. Also, the tune muffled the burbles a lot.... I’ll do a dedicated review on the FVD tunes post intake mods
Id probably stick with COBB and make the changes if I were in your shoes and you get headers but FVD practically gives away their tune with headers (and filters). If you add headers, decide if you’re looking for top end power or lower end grunt and choose a quality brand by the length of the runners. Another reason for FVD (for me) is that they have a tune specifically for their headers and free updates for additional mods.
03-04-2018, 05:46 PM
#27
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Where aspirations are natural
Posts: 4,389
Likes: 0
Received 41 Likes
on
32 Posts
I mean that argument doesn't really work at the limit - when you get an S, then you need the turbo, then you need a 918, then you need a spaceship- it goes to infinity like that.
A few k on mods (fully reversible) to make your car yours and to make it a more fun ride? It's definitely not an investment to get more hp, it's purely an expense and it's mostly for fun, but people spend more on worse things that's for sure. I think of it as a way to save money since it might actually delay me getting into a new car by making my own car more interesting/"new".
I've ridden as passenger in a few 987/981/991 cars w catless headers & various modified exhausts at the track and the noise is just off the charts good - you get goosebumps.
I think power benefits of going decat is hard to dispute but I also heard mixed feedback about the IPD Plenum as well on this platform - R_Rated said more air which makes conventional sense but I'm inclined to pass on the plenum side. Just never saw any data. I'm aware of dyno proven benefits from decat+tune on 981 Cayman S's, GT4s etc though, and identical but tuned cars pulling on me at racetracks. 10-20 whp sustained across the power band is actually quite a difference, I say at the risk of being ridiculed by the turbo crowd.
Disclaimer: Decat headers are for "off-road" use only.
A few k on mods (fully reversible) to make your car yours and to make it a more fun ride? It's definitely not an investment to get more hp, it's purely an expense and it's mostly for fun, but people spend more on worse things that's for sure. I think of it as a way to save money since it might actually delay me getting into a new car by making my own car more interesting/"new".
I've ridden as passenger in a few 987/981/991 cars w catless headers & various modified exhausts at the track and the noise is just off the charts good - you get goosebumps.
I think power benefits of going decat is hard to dispute but I also heard mixed feedback about the IPD Plenum as well on this platform - R_Rated said more air which makes conventional sense but I'm inclined to pass on the plenum side. Just never saw any data. I'm aware of dyno proven benefits from decat+tune on 981 Cayman S's, GT4s etc though, and identical but tuned cars pulling on me at racetracks. 10-20 whp sustained across the power band is actually quite a difference, I say at the risk of being ridiculed by the turbo crowd.
Disclaimer: Decat headers are for "off-road" use only.
my path is essentially ~5k in power mods (doing my own labor) to have more peak HP and better mid/low than the 12k X51. Based on the dyno from just headers.... I’m thinking 440bhp. An expensive 40hp but 1/3 or less the cost of the X51 and better drivability. Waiting till summer to add a center radiator.
Keep in mind the new cars get more gains wth just a tune but will not have the driver experience
03-04-2018, 06:06 PM
#28
Intermediate
Thanks for the feedback. Good or bad depending on how you look at it, the 3.4l already has the 82mm throttle body. The cayman/boxster 3.4l doesn't. As you say FVD practically gives away the tune so I would probably get it to compare. With COBB I can do a 3rd gear run and with the log data get a custom tune.
So you went with the FVD (short tube) for the low/mid gains vs the Cargraphic (longer tube) for higher RPM? I'm looking to boost the low/mid a little myself.
So you went with the FVD (short tube) for the low/mid gains vs the Cargraphic (longer tube) for higher RPM? I'm looking to boost the low/mid a little myself.
03-04-2018, 06:10 PM
#29
keep in mind that it is well documented that the majority of the benefit of the X51 kit is the allumenium plenum. It’s a solid piece and honestly, I’m looking forward to it for the sound as much as any power.
my path is essentially ~5k in power mods (doing my own labor) to have more peak HP and better mid/low than the 12k X51. Based on the dyno from just headers.... I’m thinking 440bhp. An expensive 40hp but 1/3 or less the cost of the X51 and better drivability. Waiting till summer to add a center radiator.
my path is essentially ~5k in power mods (doing my own labor) to have more peak HP and better mid/low than the 12k X51. Based on the dyno from just headers.... I’m thinking 440bhp. An expensive 40hp but 1/3 or less the cost of the X51 and better drivability. Waiting till summer to add a center radiator.
Did you do the same research into the plenum and/or throttle body? Which specific ones are you looking into? I could definitely consider it now that you said sound. I'll be getting a pro-tune anyways, another 5whp can't hurt.
Doing your own labor is really key; I wish I had the space and the skills (honestly I could acquire the skills/tools, I'm an engineer by training but space in ny metro area is like unobtanium) - my shop though is usually reasonably priced thank God.
Yeah you're preaching to the choir I literally bought this car because Carreras went turbo
03-04-2018, 06:13 PM
#30
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Where aspirations are natural
Posts: 4,389
Likes: 0
Received 41 Likes
on
32 Posts
Thanks for the feedback. Good or bad depending on how you look at it, the 3.4l already has the 82mm throttle body. The cayman/boxster 3.4l doesn't. As you say FVD practically gives away the tune so I would probably get it to compare. With COBB I can do a 3rd gear run and with the log data get a custom tune.
So you went with the FVD (short tube) for the low/mid gains vs the Cargraphic (longer tube) for higher RPM? I'm looking to boost the low/mid a little myself.
So you went with the FVD (short tube) for the low/mid gains vs the Cargraphic (longer tube) for higher RPM? I'm looking to boost the low/mid a little myself.