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First time buyer looking for guidance on picking car
I have been looking for a CS2 997.2 manual, locally here in the Phoenix area, hoping for a private seller. So far no real luck...but its early in the quest. In the meantime I test drove this 2015 C2 (991.1) today at a local dealership. Being new to this brand, while I could discern a slightly different feel between this and the few CS2 cars I've driven, it was subtle. I''m pretty sure I'd be happy with this, given that its my first Porsche, and my plans always was to upgrade in the near future if I liked the experience.
Here's the original options and price for you. From the CarFax it looks like the original warranty will get you through 1/2019.
Just a small note... you mention it being a low-mileage car and while it isn't bad at all, it isn't actually low for 2015 911. Having just done some analysis on all of the listed 2014 4S models when I was trying to sell mine I found out that the average mileage for those was around 19,500 miles and those were a year older than this one. Mine was in the top 5% at 33,000 miles. At least I had fun driving it! So this one is probably a few thousand miles above the average for a 2015. Not a big deal, but wanted you to be aware of the unusually low miles many of the cars carry... it takes some getting used to.
Given the 3 years total on the car, the original sticker price being a little lower than many, the lack of CPO for the extra 2 years of warranty, and the fact these guys are a Mercedes dealer that would probably like to move this car, I'd think you can probably get it for a little bit less than this. The plus for this particular car is that it has Premium Plus options and Park Assist, something probably not all that common on manual base models. I personally like the Premium Plus goodies a lot.
I agree with R_Rated that it does appear to be a fairly good deal overall after a little more haggling.
Here's the original options and price for you. From the CarFax it looks like the original warranty will get you through 1/2019.
Just a small note... you mention it being a low-mileage car and while it isn't bad at all, it isn't actually low for 2015 911. Having just done some analysis on all of the listed 2014 4S models when I was trying to sell mine I found out that the average mileage for those was around 19,500 miles and those were a year older than this one. Mine was in the top 5% at 33,000 miles. At least I had fun driving it! So this one is probably a few thousand miles above the average for a 2015. Not a big deal, but wanted you to be aware of the unusually low miles many of the cars carry... it takes some getting used to.
Given the 3 years total on the car, the original sticker price being a little lower than many, the lack of CPO for the extra 2 years of warranty, and the fact these guys are a Mercedes dealer that would probably like to move this car, I'd think you can probably get it for a little bit less than this. The plus for this particular car is that it has Premium Plus options and Park Assist, something probably not all that common on manual base models. I personally like the Premium Plus goodies a lot.
I agree with R_Rated that it does appear to be a fairly good deal overall after a little more haggling.
I glanced at it and thought it was CPO - would push hard for this.
Options depreciate fast so the depreciation curve should be less steep on this car. There's several thousand in sorting done to this car - Mods like exhaust do NOT add value but if done in a tasteful manner that you would do anyway (The lip and clear corners are a no brainer IMO) then that puts you thousands ahead of the modding plan.
Definitely room on lowering the price on this one. Back in August I bought a very similarly optioned car, almost exact original MSRP, 6K less miles, and CPO warranty for $5K less than what they are asking for this car. Mine was a 2014, but this was 6 moths ago so about the same age car as what you're looking at today.
I'll bet they got this at auction or as a trade for under $60K. Negotiate accordingly.
Maybe not a major issue for you, but you might've noticed the light colored dash reflecting prominently in the windshield on a few of the interior pics. This is something you may be looking at on a sunny day. Lots of drivers can learn to "look through" this and ignore it. For me , it would be a deal breaker. ( I passed on a used 911TT with beige dash after taking a test drive for this reason).
Maybe not a major issue for you, but you might've noticed the light colored dash reflecting prominently in the windshield on a few of the interior pics. This is something you may be looking at on a sunny day. Lots of drivers can learn to "look through" this and ignore it. For me , it would be a deal breaker. ( I passed on a used 911TT with beige dash after taking a test drive for this reason).
Nice catch! I'd missed that.
For OP: Porsche has stopped producing cars with the dash this light due to problems with the reflections like kuma has pointed out. I'm sure for some it isn't a problem, but it was enough of a problem for enough people that Porsche provided settlement payments over this issue. You should check the car out in sunlight to see if it will be a problem for you. Polarized sunglasses would help this of course, but not fix it.
All this information is exactly what I'm looking to learn. Thank you all for the conversation. BTW, is there a particular book anyone would recommend? I saw some amusing titles on a quick visit to Amazon...The Used 911 Story, 9th Edition - which seems unavailable now...
I talked with the dealership, they were polite but uncompromising. One of the issues here in Scottsdale and Paradise Valley are the large number of very wealthy people for whom this car would be my equivalent to a Starbucks run. And as I return to their website inventories and talk to salespeople, I learn that these cars are moving, at some point. So....there it is. This is not as great a place to find a good deal on a used Porsche as I initially assumed.
Today was a day off work, and I spent all day at three different dealerships (now the total count is about 10...in the past 6-8 weeks). Today I drove 5 cars. I've learned that I actually don't mind the PDK. It's not all bad. I could live with it....Ok, fine....I liked it. So, I'll relax my constraint and include PDKs. That opens up the field A TON, I found. I looked over the Scottsdale Porsche guy's shoulder at his used inventory list and something like 4-5 out of 40 were manual. He said only about 1 in 50 of his new build orders are manual.
I'm sure this is a common scenario: I'm pretty much done visiting dealerships...I've had enough test drives to get a sense for things. The dealerships have to make their profit, and they charge me sales tax. So right away, if I buy their car, I'm $5-10k OVER what I could sell it for, to a private buyer, here in AZ or wherever. Assuming things go as I think, I'll like this experience, and then maybe want to upgrade in 1, 2, 5 years, etc. So overpaying 5-10k for this first car is a rookie mistake I'm going to try to resist.
New search criteria include a PDK or manual, CS2, low to average mileage, no Cabs, no 4s, 997.2 or newer, and I've relaxed my price range a bit too.
Thanks again, everyone. Hope to be back with other prospects soon.
Most books will not include much on the 991 series. I suggest instead wasting investing some hours on Rennlist, and then buying some issues of Excellence magazine, which often publishes used model review summaries and comparisons.
I was in a similar situation in SoCal. Dealers weren’t hungry. I went out of state, received a much better deal, now have to wait for delivery.
If you buy used from out of state, strongly consider a pre-purchase inspection and flying out to finalize the deal. You can then drive it back or have it shipped depending on distance/preference.
Thank you. I had great trepidation about the prospect buying a car out of state. As I have learned more and spoken to more people, I’m no longer scared off by this. Especially since that seems to be a better route toward a fair deal.
And with folks on this forum scattered all over the world, I’m sure I can find help sourcing out the PPI in whatever town I need!
I know I just said I was 'done' with dealers. But...has anyone ever bought a car from VROOM? You buy the car, then have the option of visiting the car on site (Dallas or Houston) for pickup, and a 7 day/250 mile 100% return policy (so they say...haven't read the contract). Figured if it was really promising, I could arrange a PPI in Dallas and then return the car right away if I was dissatisfied. Just sounds iffy....but any experience with them?
For example, I love this color, and while it is a 4S (which i wasn't looking for), it's a 2013 built in 11/2012, so its a 991 if I read the manufacturer code right. Would this mileage of 28,300 be average or above average?
I hope there will be some critics of my process here, so I can learn more.
Looking at that depreciation projection project (http://flatsixes.com/porsche-culture...-depreciation/) this car is at about 40% depreciation, about on the curve that analysis suggests. (126k-40% = 75k). The only problem is that I have to pay sales tax! So, unless VROOM is uncharacteristically interested in giving me that equivalent discount, it'll be a poor purchase. Of course that assumes it's in great shape and passes a PPI.
That milage is average to high. I would NEVER trust a dealer sight unseen. Suck it up fly in ready yo do the deal but also ready to walk. Make them take somewhere for the PPI before you fly in and resolve any issue prior. I bought mine from a P dealer too and hated wasting the money and doing business woth crooks but they snap up the rare ones quick.
money back garuntee at a car dealer is worthless. They will find some way to screw you if you
exercise that option.
good news is you found a rare 7MT with sport chrono ! Some people like the 2 vs the 4 but they are both excellent. I have the 2s silver metallic and it is an amazing color which has been discontinued which adds value.
Originally Posted by Balderdash
I know I just said I was 'done' with dealers. But...has anyone ever bought a car from VROOM? You buy the car, then have the option of visiting the car on site (Dallas or Houston) for pickup, and a 7 day/250 mile 100% return policy (so they say...haven't read the contract). Figured if it was really promising, I could arrange a PPI in Dallas and then return the car right away if I was dissatisfied. Just sounds iffy....but any experience with them?
For example, I love this color, and while it is a 4S (which i wasn't looking for), it's a 2013 built in 11/2012, so its a 991 if I read the manufacturer code right. Would this mileage of 28,300 be average or above average?
I hope there will be some critics of my process here, so I can learn more.
Looking at that depreciation projection project (http://flatsixes.com/porsche-culture...-depreciation/) this car is at about 40% depreciation, about on the curve that analysis suggests. (126k-40% = 75k). The only problem is that I have to pay sales tax! So, unless VROOM is uncharacteristically interested in giving me that equivalent discount, it'll be a poor purchase. Of course that assumes it's in great shape and passes a PPI.
02-04-2018, 11:04 PM
First time buyer looking for guidance on picking car
