Is anyone else disappointed by the Carrera T Auto Rev match function ???
01-08-2018, 05:06 PM
#46
Been mulling this, and skipped Sport Chrono on my .2 Carrera because I don't care for the dash top clock and because I just about never used the auto-blipper in my GT4 (but liked that it was there for when my better half, who wears size 8.5 womens shoes, wanted to drive the car). Patrick Long also preferred it on when he tested the car at Thermal. Skipping the Sport Chrono option avoids the issue, of course, but the auto-blipper is a nice feature to have even if you don't use it (I agree with all of the reasoning above).
The thing I'm missing is neither that nor the clock—but I wish there had been a way to get the active engine mounts, as they improve both the handling and the ride quality. And I now wish I had them. I sometimes wonder if there is a way to add the hardware and tie them to the Sport button.
Were I to do it over again, I might have ordered Sport Chrono to get the engine mounts. But then you're stuck with the auto-blipper...which should really be a standalone button on the dash separate from Sport, Sport Plus, and PSM.
The thing I'm missing is neither that nor the clock—but I wish there had been a way to get the active engine mounts, as they improve both the handling and the ride quality. And I now wish I had them. I sometimes wonder if there is a way to add the hardware and tie them to the Sport button.
Were I to do it over again, I might have ordered Sport Chrono to get the engine mounts. But then you're stuck with the auto-blipper...which should really be a standalone button on the dash separate from Sport, Sport Plus, and PSM.
I see two advantages to SC on the MT: no backfire and less lag (in Sport + mode).
01-08-2018, 05:13 PM
#47
Yes, I did mean all version of simultaneous gas and brake action. However, some drivers who rev match just blip the throttle without braking if they are doing normal street driving and don't need to be braking hard. Most don't rev match at all. For reference, 5% of all new cars are sold as manuals (all cars not just Porsches). https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/...s-disappearing. Even so, the overwhelming majority of new Porsches are pdk and not manuals, so we are talking about a very small subset to begin with.
Of those manual drivers, how many are braking/throttle blipping simultaneously. Let's say 10% (I doubt it is that high). That means that 10% of 5% is .5% of new cars are using heel and toe (or rolling your foot)...and it is no where near that high.
But to get back to the OP's thread, he seemed to be concerned about the "mandatory" rev matching in a "driver's car" like a 911T. Many of the purist don't like all the safety nannies either. So just turn off PSM and rev matching is disabled. Do all the heel and toe that you want in all modes.
Of those manual drivers, how many are braking/throttle blipping simultaneously. Let's say 10% (I doubt it is that high). That means that 10% of 5% is .5% of new cars are using heel and toe (or rolling your foot)...and it is no where near that high.
But to get back to the OP's thread, he seemed to be concerned about the "mandatory" rev matching in a "driver's car" like a 911T. Many of the purist don't like all the safety nannies either. So just turn off PSM and rev matching is disabled. Do all the heel and toe that you want in all modes.
I'm afraid your really missing the point here.... Your also making broad generalizations about manual transmission drivers.
I drive a manual , I rev match and I heal toe while driving my 911 every time I'm in it. I'm not a dinosaur because I know how to drive my car properly and I'm certainly not alone in that regard. In fact, I would wager most any member of this forum that has more than a little bit of track experience with a manual transmission does exactly the same... Many non track drivers I'm sure join us as well....
The essence of driving a manual transmission is that it is MANUAL meaning YOU do all the work. For an experienced manual transmission driver the auto rev matching is intrusive and frustrating because it seeks to remove the drivers inputs from the equation.
Your also making another broad, generalized statement about purists not wanting the PSM / " nannies" on... I disagree... PSM is a great system and is NON intrusive in street driving. It does not seek to dilute the experience of spirited street driving in the same way as auto rev match. Furthermore, driving with it off means another annoyance of having to press the button at startup along with the Auto start stop and sport button and the addition of an annoying yellow warning light on the cluster.
Lastly, please remove the quotes around the T being a drivers car. If you read the Concept of the 911T directly off the Porsche website you will read quotes like " made for drivers not collectors" " stripped down to the essentials" " less is more" and a dozen other quotes stating exactly that this car was intended for a hardcore enthusiast which JUST like the manual transmission, is intended for a limited audience .
This is why I find it contradictory that in a car being marketed as such they refuse to give the manual control of the manual transmission back to the driver they claim to be building this car for.... Hence my frustration and my reasoning for this thread...
01-08-2018, 05:23 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
I rev-matched or heel-toe on every downshift that I can remember in 16 years with my 993, and in 10 years prior with my MT Acura. I also learned how to upshift and release the clutch just at the right RPM to match, regardless of speed. As I learned it - that's the proper way to drive a manual. I don't mind the aids, but I do prefer if they give us drivers the choice. PSM off in the Carrera T can't be that much more difficult than the 993 with no nannies at all. I think we'll all be okay once we spend some time learning to drive the car near the limit.
01-08-2018, 08:31 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
Count me as one more who "heel-toes" every downshift, always. Not only is it smoother, it's easier on the driveline and adds a bit of fun to every drive.
Back to the OP's point: The auto-blipper really should not be tied to Sport or Sport Plus modes, as that makes an assumption that many drivers who like those modes don't want made for them. Nor should it be tied to PSM, which is a valuable safety feature on both road and track for a variety of reasons and drivers. The times I switch it off are very rare—I find that it is nearly or completely unobtrusive so long as I am driving smoothly. If one wants to horse around, well, that's a different matter—but I fail to see how that should be tied to an auto-blipper.
The auto-blipper ought to have its own button.
And active engine mounts should be a standalone option.
Back to the OP's point: The auto-blipper really should not be tied to Sport or Sport Plus modes, as that makes an assumption that many drivers who like those modes don't want made for them. Nor should it be tied to PSM, which is a valuable safety feature on both road and track for a variety of reasons and drivers. The times I switch it off are very rare—I find that it is nearly or completely unobtrusive so long as I am driving smoothly. If one wants to horse around, well, that's a different matter—but I fail to see how that should be tied to an auto-blipper.
The auto-blipper ought to have its own button.
And active engine mounts should be a standalone option.
01-08-2018, 10:02 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
Been mulling this, and skipped Sport Chrono on my .2 Carrera because I don't care for the dash top clock and because I just about never used the auto-blipper in my GT4 (but liked that it was there for when my better half, who wears size 8.5 womens shoes, wanted to drive the car). Patrick Long also preferred it on when he tested the car at Thermal. Skipping the Sport Chrono option avoids the issue, of course, but the auto-blipper is a nice feature to have even if you don't use it (I agree with all of the reasoning above).
The thing I'm missing is neither that nor the clock—but I wish there had been a way to get the active engine mounts, as they improve both the handling and the ride quality. And I now wish I had them. I sometimes wonder if there is a way to add the hardware and tie them to the Sport button.
Were I to do it over again, I might have ordered Sport Chrono to get the engine mounts. But then you're stuck with the auto-blipper...which should really be a standalone button on the dash separate from Sport, Sport Plus, and PSM.
The thing I'm missing is neither that nor the clock—but I wish there had been a way to get the active engine mounts, as they improve both the handling and the ride quality. And I now wish I had them. I sometimes wonder if there is a way to add the hardware and tie them to the Sport button.
Were I to do it over again, I might have ordered Sport Chrono to get the engine mounts. But then you're stuck with the auto-blipper...which should really be a standalone button on the dash separate from Sport, Sport Plus, and PSM.
Me, too. SC has the most functional impact with PDK (another flame-inducing debate). I had my delivery at PEC Atlanta (highly recommended) and for the track time, drove a MT C2 like mine, except with SC. My Porsche host was emphatic about how cool rev matching is, while I quickly hated it. I had to argue with him about how to disable it, which was only possible by driving in normal mode.
Porsche engineers, like any accomplished people, can get too full of themselves. Rev matching might be what some people want, but do NOT make it mandatory.
Last edited by bkrantz; 01-08-2018 at 10:23 PM.
01-08-2018, 11:44 PM
#51
Racer
Join Date: Dec 2017
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It’s not a question of whether or not your a “ true “ enthusiast...
Its a simple matter of whether or not a supposed “ enthusiast “ version of a 911 should include training wheels for manual transmission drivers that either lack the prerequisite skills of operating one properly or the desire to learn ...
Adding AUTOMATIC features to a MANUAL transmission defeats the purpose and dulls the experience .
Not sure why you want to heel/toe on the street unless you're practicing for the track. I use an Auto-Blip on my Mustangs and not only does it work well it makes you faster on track. I can heel toe ok but I'm faster letting the Auto-Blip match the revs and I concentrate on my braking.I am surprised there is not an on/off button or selection for this feature regardless of what mode you use. The C7 Corvettes have it and it works great. If you want it turn it on otherwise leave it off. It keeps everyone happy that way.
01-08-2018, 11:52 PM
#52
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I did the “master the manual” at PECLA. The ‘blip’ on the C2S was horrible. Many years of track time in all sorts of manual cars has made heel and toe an automatic behavior. Then the car tries to get in the way.....not good.
Yes, you can switch the PSM off but the blip is something you should have to consciously switch on, not off.
Yes, you can switch the PSM off but the blip is something you should have to consciously switch on, not off.
01-10-2018, 01:48 PM
#54
This rodent would be willing to wager quite a large amount of cheese that separate selection of auto-blip will make an appearance in the 992.
Also, I rev match every downshift because it’s necessary for smooth progress but only ‘heel and toe’ when overlapping braking and downshifts, something that happens a few times per drive if I’m pressing on but by no means often.
Also, I rev match every downshift because it’s necessary for smooth progress but only ‘heel and toe’ when overlapping braking and downshifts, something that happens a few times per drive if I’m pressing on but by no means often.
01-11-2018, 09:56 AM
#55
Active Engine Mounts button
Just curious as to why you think the active engine mounts should be configurable ? Is it so they last longer ?
Count me as one more who "heel-toes" every downshift, always. Not only is it smoother, it's easier on the driveline and adds a bit of fun to every drive.
Back to the OP's point: The auto-blipper really should not be tied to Sport or Sport Plus modes, as that makes an assumption that many drivers who like those modes don't want made for them. Nor should it be tied to PSM, which is a valuable safety feature on both road and track for a variety of reasons and drivers. The times I switch it off are very rare—I find that it is nearly or completely unobtrusive so long as I am driving smoothly. If one wants to horse around, well, that's a different matter—but I fail to see how that should be tied to an auto-blipper.
The auto-blipper ought to have its own button.
And active engine mounts should be a standalone option.
Back to the OP's point: The auto-blipper really should not be tied to Sport or Sport Plus modes, as that makes an assumption that many drivers who like those modes don't want made for them. Nor should it be tied to PSM, which is a valuable safety feature on both road and track for a variety of reasons and drivers. The times I switch it off are very rare—I find that it is nearly or completely unobtrusive so long as I am driving smoothly. If one wants to horse around, well, that's a different matter—but I fail to see how that should be tied to an auto-blipper.
The auto-blipper ought to have its own button.
And active engine mounts should be a standalone option.
01-11-2018, 11:59 AM
#56
Three Wheelin'
I'm one of those guys that uses "training wheels". Not sure why you want to heel/toe on the street unless you're practicing for the track. I use an Auto-Blip on my Mustangs and not only does it work well it makes you faster on track. I can heel toe ok but I'm faster letting the Auto-Blip match the revs and I concentrate on my braking.
I am surprised there is not an on/off button or selection for this feature regardless of what mode you use. The C7 Corvettes have it and it works great. If you want it turn it on otherwise leave it off. It keeps everyone happy that way.
Not sure why you want to heel/toe on the street unless you're practicing for the track. I use an Auto-Blip on my Mustangs and not only does it work well it makes you faster on track. I can heel toe ok but I'm faster letting the Auto-Blip match the revs and I concentrate on my braking.I am surprised there is not an on/off button or selection for this feature regardless of what mode you use. The C7 Corvettes have it and it works great. If you want it turn it on otherwise leave it off. It keeps everyone happy that way.
01-11-2018, 09:02 PM
#59
Pro
No. In individual mode, you can only choose Sport, sport +, enable/disable auto start stop, PSE, PSAM setting, and spoiler. You can't separately break out rev matching.
01-11-2018, 09:02 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
Because I like the Sport setting (Sport+ is a bit much for the street, imo) but don't want the auto-blipper. I can see situations where you might also want the Normal mode for the throttle (slippery conditions) but might like less engine movement. My ideal scenario would be to have buttons on the center console for the engine mounts and auto-blipper—even if they had to be defeated after moving the rotary dial to Sport.