flat110

Hi,

I am considering buying a used 2015 Carrera S from a Porsche dealership. The car is also listed on PCNA pre-owned website. The car comes with CPO, should I still get a PPI done from an independent vendor ?

Thanks

bkrantz

How much do you want to know about the car's condition and history? CPO inspections are not exactly detailed or in-depth. I have bought 2 CPO cars without PPI but you might sleep better with one.

flat110

Thanks for the info. Are the dealers open to the idea of the buyer doing a independent PPI ? Should I drive the car myself or someone from the dealership will drive the car to and from the place of inspection and dealership. In my case, we have agreed on the price and the only thing remaining is whether or not to do the PPI.

TurboPan

You may want to browse through my recent experience:

https://rennlist.com/forums/general-...es-to-fix.html

Bottom line is that, as stated by bkrantz, the CPO inspection isn't exactly detailed, assuming they even did the CPO inspection. From the miserable experience I had (and am still dealing with), the dealership signed off on the CPO four days before I purchased my car, but as documented by my local dealership, there were (and still are) numerous things wrong with the car that should have been caught during the CPO inspection. Take the car yourself to go get the PPI, it will be worth it for the peace of mind. If they find anything that the dealership missed, be sure it's fixed or adjust your offer accordingly.

One other thing... if you ever have any issues with the dealership regarding your CPO inspection, don't expect Porsche of North America to do anything about it... they are pretty much useless with regards to any type of customer service.

Best of luck, and happy new year!

flat110

Thanks TurboPan for your inputs. I am sorry to hear your experience. Best of luck and I hope the issues with your car get resolved soon and you start enjoying your car. I will search for independent PPI in Los Angeles Area.

Happy New Year !!

champignon

Truly useful PPIs are few and far between. The newer the car and the less the miles, plus the more the warranty remaining, the less necessary and useful they are.

I have bought more than a few used cars, some collectible and "semi-collectible," during the last 3-4 years. Most were BMWs but one was a Porsche (996 TT, which I own now). I almost bought another Porsche, a 996 Carrera 2, which did have a clean PPI at a respected shop and which then threw a CEL 10 miles after I signed the papers and paid the seller. Fortunately, he was honorable and took the car back. I then spent 6 hours waiting in the local airport for a flight back home, as I had flown out to pick up the car. There was another 996 TT that I almost bought out of N. California. The seller, very honorable, took the car into a good independent shop and they did an amazing PPI that found a couple of major, multi-thousand dollar problems with the car. I was impressed with the thoroughness of the PPI; those people knew their stuff! Don't expect this, it was probably a once in a lifetime experience.

My 996 TT, which now has ~78K miles, was bought at a distance and without PPI, although I flew in to get the car and complete the transaction. I did not get a PPI, because it became clear that the seller was an amazingly **** person who couldn't tolerate anything to be wrong with his car. That, and $25K worth of repair and upgrade receipts from independent shops during the last 3 years and 12K miles convinced me that the car was in good shape. It has proven to be so; my local Porsche dealer could find almost nothing wrong with it when I brought it in for service, and they had every reason to do so.

Luck plays a big role in used car purchases; you can do everything "right" and still get screwed or end up with a compromised car. Warranties are your friend. **** Sellers are your friend, although you are going to be dealing with a dealer. I think it all comes down to, do you trust them? If you don't, a PPI, even a good one, may not save you.

Turbodan

do the ppi and be sure to have someone put a paint meter on it to see what has been painted...or not. CPO allows I think 2 panels to be painted, but that does affect value. Also check tires and brakes as I have heard of issues where they should have replaced discs and pads but only did one and same with tires (be sure they are N rated), and have them change the oil for you before you take it home. good luck!

flat110

Thanks Champignon for sharing your experience and insights. Happy New Year.

flat110

Thanks Turbodan for your inputs. This forum is awesome and has been really helpful.

nolan12

I did a PPI on a CPO car that also still has remaining factory warranty. I did it for the peace of mind and received a very thorough inspection from the PPI. Like others have said, the CPO checklist is a lot of pass or fail and you are trusting they did it honestly.

DesmoSD

Always get a PPI from an independent shop. My friend bought a CPO 991.1 convertible and when he last brought it in for service at another shop, they found some damage indicating that it was in an previous accident. He has since hired a lawyer.

People tend think a CPO Porsche as the golden ticket but I've read some really bad horror stories.

champignon

Not a comment on the quality of the cars, but more a comment on how much control the manufacturer appears to exert over its dealers. Porsche dealers appear to be basically "in business for themselves," especially if you compare them to, for example, BMW dealers. The level of supervision from the manufacturer down to the dealer level appears largely absent when it comes to Porsche, and Porsche also seems to take less responsibility for their own design and manufacturing mistakes than does BMW. One only has to look at the whole IMS bearing fiasco to see the truth of that. It isn't like BMW hasn't had design mistakes; they have just tended to stand behind their products when they have.

You can walk into any BMW dealer in the USA and they can pull up the service records on any used BMW that has been serviced in the USA, at whatever dealership. I have done this a number of times with used BMWs I have considered buying. Not so with Porsche. If you get screwed by a BMW dealer the odds are in your favor that going to BMW of the USA/North America will be productive. I don't think you can say that about Porsche of the USA.

There are good dealers for all brands and there are bad dealers. The Porsche dealer in my state happens to be excellent, and I would be quite confident buying a used car from them, even though I think you would probably pay too much for the privilege. Buying a CPO BMW from a BMW dealer that I did not know would not scare me; buying a CPO Porsche from a dealer I didn't know very likely would scare me. I would not expect that the national organization would bail me out if I needed it, so the onus is on you to be sure about what you are buying.

Caveat Emptor is all that I can say, when it comes to buying a used Porsche, no matter who you are buying it from, dealer or not.

TurboPan

You hit the nail on the head, champignon... that has been my experience as well, since I've primarily driven Mercedes and BMW for the last 18 years. I got used to the manufacturer doing what's right for the customer, and have seen countless examples of the dealerships taking care of things for CPO cars. Not so with Porsche... you're pretty much on your own, and Porsche of North America will not assist you in any way should you have issues with your car. It really makes you reconsider buying one of these vehicles when you know that you don't have anyone watching your back.

fkosarek1

@DesmoSD: Totally agree - my company has inspected several CPO Porsches, and on several occasions, we've found unreported issues. The CPO inspection isn't enough on its own, and though Porsche is technically on the hook for any issues, getting them to actually take responsibility is difficult.

TurboPan

Yes, you'd think that Porsche of North America would be better about holding dealerships accountable for actually doing a proper CPO inspection. Aside from the brake/rotor issues that mine had upon delivery, my local dealership had to replace the battery and wiper motor, as well as top off the oil, and they still have to do the navigation update. All of these were items that were checked off as done on the CPO list by the selling dealership. When I informed Porsche of North America about these issues, their answer was simply "take it up with the dealership".