TurboPan

First of all, hello to everyone on the forums! I've been a longtime reader, and finally purchased my first Porsche. Unfortunately, it's not a happy story. Here's the Cliff Notes version:

I live in Washington State, and found a CPO car on the Porsche website. The car was located in Pennsylvania so I couldn't easily do a personal inspection, but I figured that since it was CPO, everything should be ready to go. I purchased the car and had it shipped across country, but when I took delivery, I noticed that the car shook when braking. I took it to my local dealer, who confirmed that the rotors were warped (front and back), as well as needing new brakes. I told them that I had just bought the car as a CPO, and that everything was supposed to be fixed before I purchased it. They said that I needed to take it up with the dealer I bought it from. As further proof of the lack of proper inspection, the car was low on oil, the windshield wiper motor didn't work, and the battery needed replacing. Fortunately the oil, motor, and battery were things that my local dealer was able to cover under CPO.

I contacted the dealer I bought it from, who initially ignored my request, blaming the brake wobble as 'flat spots on the tires', as well as accusing my local dealer of improper measurements. After escalating and providing them documented proof that the car they delivered was out of spec, they still refused to pay for the repairs, instead only offering a few bucks as a 'good faith gesture'. I contacted Porsche of North America, who, while appearing sympathetic to my story, claimed that they couldn't get involved, and that it was up to the dealership. Having owned Mercedes or 17 years, this is pretty shocking.

At this point the dealer I purchased the car from has ignored all communications from my attorney, so I am now forced with filing a lawsuit. I am extremely disappointed in not only the dealership, but in the response from Porsche of North America as well. Has anyone else experienced this, or do you have any advice?

thanks in advance...

fastcars914

First, congrats on the new Porsche! Second, I am surprised, and not surprised to hear this. I'm surprised that PNA (Porsche North America) would allow this to happen, and won't get involved, but not surprised that a stealer (stealing-dealer [in this case, the dealer you bought it from]) would do this. It seems that more and more lately, that dealers are abusing the CPO as a selling point, without actually doing an inspection, or if they did, not fixing the problems. I think you should not only go after the dealer you bought it from, but also PNA . It seems that of late, PNA has been less and less willing to make things right, and only caring about $$$. Terribly sorry about what happened, it is a disgrace to the Porsche brand. One course of action might be to contact PNA about the dealer misusing the CPO program and to possibly have them not allow the dealer to CPO any cars, that would certainly be a punishment. Thankfully I haven't had to deal with anything like this, so I'm just spitballing. Props to your local dealer for doing what they could as far as making things right.

TurboPan

Thanks for the kind welcome and tips. Yes, this whole situation has been going on since the end of September, and has really turned me off to the entire Porsche experience. I should be on the forums chatting about downpipes, intakes, and chip upgrades, but instead I've been spending a lot of time talking with lawyers and not driving the car at all. My original plan was to keep this car for a year or two, and then trade it in towards a European Delivery Porsche, but after all that I've been through recently I'm pretty sure that this will be my first and last Porsche. This has caused the loss of at least two Porsche customers, since my buddy from work and I have both been looking at what our next cars will be, and after these events Porsche has been crossed off of both lists.

I agree with your thoughts on dealerships, and with your disappointment in Porsche of North America. I was in constant contact with the customer service rep at Porsche NA for a couple of weeks, I even had a claim number so they could keep my file updated every time I called to tell them the latest awful thing that happened or when I found more signs of the dealership not properly CPO'ing the vehicle. Ultimately though, I was told that it was the dealership's responsibility. Who knows, maybe this will affect their future allotments of GT2-RS cars or something, but it does nothing to prevent them from not properly taking care of their current customers. I think what they fail to realize though, is that people who buy Porsches are also capable of hiring attorneys if they feel they didn't get what they paid for.

SoCal RJ

Good luck with that. Tough situation. I just bought my first Porsche this week and would be pretty sour if this happened to me. Of course, the cost of the lawyer may be worth it you if you have the funds, but I would avoid the costs, get the repairs done and start enjoying the damn thing. I am not you though. Hope you get to enjoy the driving experience when this is over. Fantastic cars from my first week of driving mine. Please keep us posted. Feel for you. RJ

TurboPan

The main point is that dealerships should not be allowed to get away with improperly certifying cars, as well as ignoring/mistreating customers. I've shared this story with my friends at the Mercedes dealership, and they are horrified at the level of misery that Porsche is exposing the customer to... this would never happen at a Benz dealer, and shows the difference in how the hierarchy of dealerships and management work between the different manufacturers.
You pay extra for a CPO car because it is supposed to have been completely gone through, so you don't have to worry about anything. Having to pay additional money on top of what you already paid for as soon as you get the car is a pretty insulting way to start ownership. The good news is that I work for a company that give me access to all sorts of lawyers who are more than willing to help me get this resolved.

ClintonM3

I don't know all the details to Porsche's CPO program. But the website mentioned that all CPO cars had gone through a 111 point check list. Are you entitled to that checklist? Some brands, namely BMW, gives the customers their CPO checklists performed by the technicians. When push comes to shove, I'd imagine the dealer will have to provide their measurement and condition as noted on the CPO checklist.

Also, this is on Porsche's website, not sure if this is applicable. Referring to what's not covered under CPO warrany:

• The replacement of expendable maintenance items (such as spark plugs, filters, worn wiper blades, worn brakes, worn clutches, worn tires) when the replacement is not due to a defect in material or workmanship.

TurboPan

Before I purchased the car I got the full 111 point inspection list, with all the numbers and measurements. I even asked the sales guy about the brakes, since they were listed 55% front and rear, and why they hadn't replaced them, since I know that MB swaps them out even if they're close to the minimum threshold. The salesman reassured me that there was 'plenty of life left' in those brakes, and that I didn't have to worry about it. When we were working out the details of the cross country transport, I asked if they were going to deliver it to my local dealer, so it could be inspected upon delivery. He said no, they would just ship it right to my house, or as near as they could get with the transport truck. I made a mental note of that.
After I took delivery of the car and finally got my plates, I went to start the car in my garage. The battery was dead. I thought that maybe I left a light on or something, so I put it on a trickle charger. A couple of days later I took it for a drive, and that's when I noticed the wobble when braking. So within the first 20 miles of driving, the issues were apparent. I figured I should take the car home right away, until I could make an appointment with the local dealer. I saw the same verbiage on the website about wear items not being covered, but in this case the car was delivered with the problems. That is, unless somehow the brakes and rotors got magically worn down by being in an enclosed transport across country.
So my next stop was taking the car to the dealer. I had them perform a CPO inspection on the car, and that's when I found some more interesting stuff out. The brake pads, according to the CPO inspection, were at 55%. When my dealership measured them, they were at under 50% for the front, and under 45% for the rears. Additionally, they added two millimeters to the tread depth of all four tires. So what it appeared that they had done was to artificially inflate all of the numbers so that they would be above the minimum threshold so that the car would pass CPO. The one thing that they didn't do, however, was actually drive the car, because then they would have felt the brake wobble.
The second time I took the car to the dealer it started raining (I live in Seattle, so this is not an uncommon event). I turned on my windshield wipers only to be surprised by them being non-functional. That was a scary drive! Fortunately I was taking side street at low speeds since the brake wobble made it unsettling to drive on the highway. When I got to the dealership and the service tech went to move my car, it was dead again. So it turns out that I needed a new wiper motor and a new battery. Both items, coincidentally, are items on the 111 point CPO inspection checklist that the dealership I bought the car from said were okay. Additionally, the low oil light had come on, too. Fortunately the oil, battery, and wiper motor were covered under CPO.

bkrantz

This sucks. Presumably when you are done trying to resolve this, you can post the name of the dealer and salesperson you dealt with.

TurboPan

Yeah, everyone from the salesman, sales manager, operations director, and general manager have all either ignored me, passed me off to someone else, or just wasted my time. Not only that, but they have even wasted the time of the people at my local dealership. Fortunately I have kept records of every person and every conversation I have had over the last two months that this has been going on, which will surely help when this goes to court. This is my introduction to the Porsche ownership experience.

996AE

Disappointing forsure. Lawsuit though?

Did I read this right. You contacted your attorney and are filing a lawsuit over needing front brakes and rotors on a used car you bought sight unseen? brakes are a wear item. Sure, it should have been disclosed but you bought a used car without driving it or getting a PPI. CPO or not its a wear item and you didnt drive the car.

Lawsuit for a few hundred dollars worth of parts. Disappointing but a lawsuit.

Crazy world we live in.

TurboPan

CPO clearly states that the car should be in 'good as new condition', and that all wear and tear items at or below minimum specs should be replaced... that's why you pay a premium for a CPO car vs private party or non-Porsche dealer. The car that I received is practically not driveable. Yes, brakes are a wear item, but a car that is sold on the promise of 'good as new' should not have the issues that it had. I tried the civil approach with the dealer many times, only to be ignored. If the car had been for sale anywhere else but a Porsche dealer, clearly, a PPI would be in order, but this car was purchased at a Porsche dealer... what's a guy to do, have them ship it to another dealer across the state for a second inspection because you don't trust them? Crazy world we live in, indeed.

Yeah, a lawsuit isn't the ideal solution... the ideal solution would be for the dealer to have never sold a car needing so many repairs in the first place, or at the very least, admit their mistake and try to make it right for the customer. And if you think it just costs a 'few hundred dollars worth of parts', you clearly have never gotten a repair estimate for a Panamera Turbo before.

Top Jimmy

When you can, I would love to know the dealership as well. Currently shopping and don't want mess with a dealership like this seeing as how I am buying from AK. I plan to fly and drive before buying, but want to make sure I am not wasting a flight for nothing.

-TJ

TurboPan

Sounds good. Yeah, might not be a bad idea to set up an inspection with an independent shop once you decide on a car, unless you're already a Porsche Mechanic. As I've found out the hard way, you can't always trust the dealership. Best of luck in your search....

996AE

its at best a few hundred dollars and our OP talks about lawsuits

bkrantz

Sounds like the necessary repairs might be closer to a few thousand. Besides that, there is the fraud issue, plus the direct aggravation. When someone conducts business in a crooked way, there are only three ways to respond in order to attempt redress (and discourage any more sleaze):

1. Direct violence.

2. Government action.

3. Individual legal action.

Law suits may be regrettable, but are far better than other options.