Phaedrus.

Folks - I am shopping for a replacement car to the 2013 C2S that I lost when Harvey visited Houston a few months back, and was hoping I could . I would like to stick with the 991 S (C2S or C4S). No real preference for .1 or .2, but a true 7-speed Manual transmission is a must. And I have a fairly long list of options I would like to have as well. I only had the car ~5 months when it got flooded, and it was my first Porsche so I am very much a newbie, and have limited knowledge about them (apart from LOVING to drive the car)

This is the car I lost, it had ~35,000 miles on it:
https://admin.porschedealer.com/repo...AB2A96DS122010


Although I only had the car for a short time, I really came to appreciate the features on the car, and REALLY liked the Midnight Blue color. I had plans to install a backup camera, and the GT4 shifter


I found this car that comes pretty close, a 2-owner, 2014 C4S, with ~14,500 miles, asking 89,800 USD.
http://www.motorgroup.com/vehicle-de...05ddcb5943c4dd
https://admin.porschedealer.com/repo...AB2A97ES120218


The dealer has had it listed for about 6 months and in that time his asking price has come down from 97.8 kUSD to 89.8 kUSD. It is also missing a few of the options that were on the first car, most of which are "convenience" items. I have (hopefully) attached the CarFax for the vehicle, and it shows quite a bit of work re-programming or replacing various modules and computer. That seems like a red flag to me.

I would really appreciate you folks' opinion on the price. Some of the websites that do cost analysis indicate he is 2.5 - 5.0 kUSD too high. I would also appreciate a critical look at all the electrical and computer work done in the Jul/15 to Jul/15 timeframe. I have not contacted the dealer to see if they would be willing to share more information about what problems were reported that led to the work being done.

If there are resources publicly available that you folks use to judge fairness of prices, I'd be very interested in hearing about them. I have looked at CarGurus, KBB, and TrueCar.

Lastly, if questions like this belong in a different place on Rennlist, please let me know and I will be happy to repost there. Thanks in advance folks....


EDIT - clearly I need a "how to" on posting. The lines above that look like:



was my attempt to paste in an image I had cut from the build sheets.
Can anyone help me understand how I do that?? If there is a "how to" post somewhere
on the forum I'd appreciate someone pointing me that way. I did some searching, without
any luck.

Phaedrus.

Odd - when I first looked at my post it showed this text:

QUOTE[img]blob:https://rennlist.com/228979e6-bf9f-4983-9f6e-3bc12d955a94[/img]ENDQUOTE

where I tried to paste in the clip from the build sheets. After I did my edit, it replaced that text with the question mark boxes...
I added the QUOTE ENDQUOTE to hopefully show the text that was there.

Pep!RRRR

If you are shopping in the $90k range have you looked for 2017 model year base cars that might be available at a good discount? Might be worth a shot.

yrralis1

At 90K it's time to look for a new car and spend 110. Those extra model years and lack of unknown driving history make the used car too close for comfort . As for the manual I have driven the new car and the old . I personally prefer the 6 speed over any of the 7 found in the 991 but the first gen is awful and the new one is better but still not great. In fact in 2013 I bought a 981 BoxsterS with the 6 (loved it). , Also note thtq the new Gt3 is a 6.

Frankly .. going the manual 911 route right now I's grab the new Carrera T . It's the value play with all the updates at a great price . Since the 991 launch in 2012 most simply wanted a 110K nicely option priced 911 and here it finally is .

rxtrom

I think you need to keep looking, that car is only 25% off MSRP and is 4 years old. Some buyers are getting 25% off MSRP for a one year old (2017) with 2k miles. I am not saying you can get the same smoking deal but there are several other options besides that car. I would also look for a CPO and buy from a Porsche dealer or a private person who you know took care of the car. Take a look at the 991.1 Hot For Sale thread too for reference. https://rennlist.com/forums/991/8636...1-1-a-937.html

Another thing I would recommend is test driving any 991.2 7speed. base or S model at a local dealer. The new engine in the 2017+ is a 3.0 liter turbo and has some low-mid end torque that is very street-able and fun. Nothing against the 991.1 NA motors but it will give you perspective. If you are going to spend 90k, you might as well do yourself the favor and try it.

Phaedrus.

how do I remove this post ??

Phaedrus.

Thanks Mr rxtrom - that is some good calibration for me. I really appreciate that....

Also Mr PeP!RRR, looking at new 2017 cars on lots is something I had not thought about, so thanks for that idea.

And Mr yrralis1 - you make some good points about new vs. used and the Carrera T that I will have to look into.

REALLY appreciate ALL the input here folks, all of which I will be sure to look into.....

Papa Fittig

Not to hijack the thread, but I am interested to hear why 7MT in 991.1 is awful and how is 991.2 7MT better.
Coming from 997 6MT I can only say that my 991.1 7MT is way more precise, smooth and is almost as good as in Hondas. The only thing I do not like about my 991's 7MT is the "7" part. My 997 6MT was not great. Also the clutch was way heavier in 997, although in my 991 it is not very light either (which I actually like)
.
I've been driven MTs for more than 3 decades and have seen quite a few ones, as you can imagine. Never drove 991.2 MT though.

To OP, I would pass on that car. Like others said, you at your price level should be able to find a better deal. Either new or CPOd.

yrralis1

First I will say that even the worst manual in a Porsche is still a world class gearbox . Various models over time faced different issues . For instance some complained that the 997 had a vibration yet mine (05 and 07) S cars did not . Some in the 996 and 997.1 Turbo hated the point of engagement with the power assist feature . I hated it so much that it almost became a dealbreaker and I removed it when I modded the car.

The 991.1 added another twist . It was the first 7 speed (rather than 6) and if you might recall came at a time where Porsche almost adamantly wanted to phase out the manual in favor of PDK. In fact they retained the 6 speed ONLY in the 981 but the 991.1 got the 7 and the 991.1 Gt3 was PDK only . It was as if the manual was retained as an afterthought and it's shifting was stiffer as if the 7 was aimed to be a PDK car . They knew the 6 speed in the 981 was a winner so they used it to its advantage with the Spyder and Gt4 as only manual cars .

The 991.2 became a whole new ball game. There had been such an outcry for the manual that Porsche decided to refine it a bit and even bring the 6 speed back to the Gt3 . In the street version 911 cars they got the 7 but it was smoother shifting and more fluid . Road and track noted it by stating the internals were improved although its a mystery what parts or tweaks Porsche did. I just noticed an instant impressiveness . Now i have never driven a 6 speed in the 911 however a friend of mine did spend quite some time in a 911 R (with the lightweight components) and when he went back to his personal car (a 991.2 4S manual ) he became bummed out by how much he missed a 6 speed (especially what he described as perfect in the 911 R).

Lastly . I know there are guys who are "manual only" as well as "PDK only" . I am not that guy . I happen to love BOTH equally and simply will choose the one I feel best suits the car . Sometimes that choice is VERY difficult . Given the PDK price gap on a 991.2 it's even MORE difficult to decide. I dont feel a person can go wrong with either . I just am least impressed by the first 7 found in the 991.1 .

Thus I will amend my word choice from "awful" to less impressive than I hoped for that first 7 .

pfbz

Other questions aside, I wouldn't overly sweat the carfax entries. I would certianly check with the dealer listed to see if they have full documentation, but dealers often put in ultra-generic 'category' type entries in carfax. Also, not really a problem area on 991's. and even if they did, swapping an electronic module isn't the kind of repair that would cause me worry...

Papa Fittig

Thanks for the reply. Actually there was a substantial change to 7sp MT design between 991.1 and 991.2. I was interested to hear about what exactly was going wrong for you and made 991.1 an "awful" experience.

I did not see any vibrations in my or any other 997.1 or 997.2 MTs I've driven. The issues were all around shifting precision (i.e. difficulties going into 1st or 2nd gear) and smoothness. Naturally Porsche's longer linkage comparing to a direct shifters like e.g., in Honda s2000 leads to less precise shifting. Also some 997 MTs mine included had heavy clutches although 997 GT3s I've driven had heavy clutches too

With 991.1 MT all these areas have been addressed. I have driven 3 MT 991.1 (all CS) and all 3 were precise and smooth with lighter clutches. I agree that 7sp MT in 991.1 was perceived as a "last manual" in 911 lineage, however still being a fruit of Porsche engineering I doubt they decidedly left it to be a step child. As for 6sp vs 7sp I think all the MT enthusiasts complained about 7 being one too many as it made the shifter busier with shifts placed closer. That is why Porsche put a proper 6sp MT in top performers and esp. track oriented cars where MPG freeway performance was no issue.

991.2 is still a 7sp one, so I perhaps just need to go for a test drive to see if there is really some perceptible difference in the feel..

Phaedrus.

Folks - I have moved on, and am now looking at a 2014 Manual C4S car in the Fort Myers FL area. Does anyone know of a reputable (preferably independent) place I could go for a thorough PPI ??

Thanks,