Rapter

Hey everyone,

I want to know the general opinions of those on the forum about the purchase of a CPO c4s in a manual transmission (anywhere from 10,000 to 30,000 km used).

Specifically, the question is about how much concern should there be of any unknown abuse to the clutch, the gearbox or flywheel has sustained.

I know that the CPO certification process does not involve dropping the transmission to have a look at the condition of the clutch and flywheel (wear and any hot spots). Nor does the certification open up the transmission box.

In the past I have owned a pre-owned Manual Jetta (which had issues with the clutch bearing and 2nd gear synco wore out before 100,000 km) and a pre owned Mini Cooper which both had again a gearbox and clutch issue (2nd gear synchro before 60,000km and bearing again...) both of which presented themselves later on in the ownership time which initially did not present themselves. I can only conclude that the cars were driven really hard when new, abused and then these issue appear down the road. Both cars had less than 10,000 km when new.

I would happily buy a new c4s however I just don't have the money to spend....

Appreciate your input on this difficult question.

This is obviously less of a concern for a pdk car... or any automatic car.

I know you never know how well or poorly the car was driven and what kind of abuse it has sustained other than maybe asking for the manual transmission fluid to be drained and inspected for fillings? Clutch travel is usually a dead give away for clutch life remaining as well...

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Needsdecaf

You will need a test drive to check for clutch issues, and a DME printout to look for over revs.

koala

I haven't purchased a used car in a long time, but given that I didn't want turbo, I had to go used this time around.

My 991.1 S has about 35,000 km on it and is CPO, and I just had to trust that whoever owned it previously didn't do any major damage.

StudGarden

Is there at least some kind of inspection hole you can look through to check flywheel teeth and maybe a limited amount of the surface? Basic borescopes aren’t that expensive and they probably have one anyway.

Keadog

A DME report will report any over-revs from a missed shift, but won't help if the PO rode around with the left foot on the pedal all the time.
Maybe the computer records how many times the car has been stalled - that might tell you something.

Rapter

Great point,

I believe you are drawing a conclusion that if someone is driving hard and specifically bouncing off the redline consistently then that would concluded lots of wear on the sync-romesh mechanisms ( as high rpm is difficult to mesh between gears and harder on the box etc etc).

Could one subsequently pull the transmission fluid and find evidence inside the box ?

As mentioned before the clutch is fairly straightforward (being strictly based on pedal/ engagement point of high vs low).

DNorby

a new clutch is 3 to 5k, just factor that into the price

cas1337

Experiencing some slight issues with 2nd gear synchro that could just be the car (many other threads complaining about this) but I did also purchase my 7MT as CPO from another rennlister. Clutch has been fine thus far, though.

Joec500

I just did a clutch on my 991

$2500 parts and Labor at a dealer in the SF Bay Area. (so a more expensive market)

I would just factor that into the running costs as a worst case scenario. My car at 47k miles, 2nd owner. Tons of friction material remaining. I had a freak failure on the pressure plate mounting points.

Bud Taylor

Wow compared to the $ 22K for a PDK this seems like a deal.

Pete

You've got at least 2 years on top of the 4 year factory warranty and 100K miles with the CPO so I'm guessing clutch or tranny problems if any are going to show up while it's still under warranty. That along with a test drive, or a PPI by someone experienced with the Porsche clutch and MT, should allow you to sleep at night.

Pete

GregD

Yeah the clutch is not *that* expensive. My independant quoted just over 2K when I asked, not that I need one yet.

I've never thought of that as an issue honestly... I've always bought my porsches slightly used and stick and never-ever got a clutch issue.

You can tell a lot from a test drive. Does it slip (bury the gas in a higher gear and look at the revs), does it shift OK ? We're not talking a 915 gearbox with a dead 2nd gear syncros here. If the car is low miles and CPO and feels right, I would buy without a care in the world...

I know this argument is not scientific but how many people would purposely buy a stick 991 to learn how to use a clutch ? ;-) I'd say most folks who got that car have experience.

Joec500

BTW, anything related to the clutch/pressure plate/Throwout bearing is not covered under any porsche factory/cpo warranty. They consider those wear items like brake pads and tires.

DC911S

Exactly, a clutch is a wear item and not covered under CPO.

Rapter

Would box syncro's be covered under-warrantee?

If this is not considered a wear and tear item then buying a mt is a no brainer.