RODOLFO04

hi, heading of to the track on saturday

And wanted to get a track focused alingment, for a bit better grip and more even tire degradation

i know adjustment is limited with the stock setup, but what are the setting i should try to get on the alingment

i heard max out front negative camber

dont know how much rear?

and absolutely no clue about toe-in or caster

hope some of the track rats can help out

the alingment shop works on p-cars, they are just not track focused, so used to run really mild stock settings

i am not expecting more than 10k out of the tires, at most, with 6 or 8 trackdays a year

sorry forgot to mention i am driving a 991.2 C4

arter

My suggestions:

Max out negative camber on the front ( balancing both sides). Expect to get to -1.2 or so. Rear camber -1.6 to -2.0.
Front toe neutral.
Rear toe slight toe-in for braking stablility.
Ignore caster.

enjoy.

randr

what are you driving? If in the GTS - the stock front camber is -1.1 you might be able to push this out by .2 to -1.3, the rear is -1.45 again you might be able to push this out by .2 to -1.65. Front toe should be low ~ 0.02 and rear should be around a total of 0.2 (and ideally zero thrust angle). Caster is more or less fixed at 8

For ref stock GT3 camber is -1.3 all round.

Also keep in mind you can fine tune with tire pressures.

Jzips

Is there anything special to think about for alignment for rear wheel steering cars?

Jabs1542

I got a full -2 degrees in my 991.1 C2, backed off a little in the rear with -1.75, also dialed in zero toe in the front with a small amount of toe-in in the rear. Really helped with push, the car drove (at speed and balanced) noticibly better. I use a performance indie shop that specializes on Cup Cars and track cars.

erko1905

Same here - max front camber (~1.3ish), slightly more rear (~1.8ish), zero toe front slight toe-in rear (~0.2 or so)

Or you could get new adj lower control arms for the front and run as much camber as you'd like

RODOLFO04

Thanks guys

all the recomendatios seem to go the same direction

1.3 to 1.6 front

1.6 to 1.8 rear

0 toe front

bit of toe rear

thanks

Jabs1542

Interesting, more camber in the rear will make the car push, which is enough of a problem on the track in the stock configuration. Stronger rear camber is more common with front engine rear wheel drive cars, 911's need the opposite, more bite in the front.

Go to an indie that supports Cup cars, they will set you up properly.

seapar

If this is your first track day. I would drive it as is.
Adjust tire pressures as appropriate. Some would say replace brake fluid with higher grade.
Leave your ego at home and be honest with your instructor.
If you’ve tracked before then a good track or hybrid alignment should be what a good shop does that has experience. Corner balancing would also be preferable. Have fun.

jsknowlton

Thank you for the advise. 3311 miles - 2 days on the track (MSR Houston) with my 991.2 C2 GTS with reduced pressure and the original PS4S were corded on the outside edges of the right tires. Drove the track counterclockwise both days but regardless far too fast wear on the outside edges of the tires. Much of it is because of my hard driving but the wear on the rest of the tires is much less. I am sure that camber adjustment would likely make a big difference.

Also does anyone recommend another brand / model of tires to try.

tstafford

I wouldn't mess with it if it's your first track day. No need.

chuck911

What exactly do you mean by reduced pressure? What pressure were the tires while you were actually driving? Not in the morning, during the day, preferably immediately after a run.

And.... corded??? What condition were the tires in before you started running laps at reduced pressure?

drcollie

One thing about track alignments is they are for....<drumroll please>....THE TRACK. You have to return them to stock when you drive on the street or the car will so twitchy it will make you crazy. It's gets pretty costly to go to the alignment shop each time, too. So you learn to do it yourself using some paint marks on the control arms, and just crank 'em on track days - then return to stock setting afterwards.

As Chuck911 explores however - what are you doing to cord out tires? Most likely you are over-driving the tires you have and an track alignment isn't going to fix that. I've been instructing over two decades and when I get a student that is over-driving his tires I teach him how to pull-back his technique and instead of slamming the car into each corner, set up for the turns differently and come in smoother. Most the time that can be solved by not hammering the car so hard....think ballet instead of mosh pit. Now, if you have the tires "singing" all around the track, then you are going faster than that particular tire is going to go - you've exceeded the capability of the equipment and its time to buy a set of R-Comps and spare wheels for track duty. It really depends on your skill level achieved but its pretty rare for a novice to be at that point.

I can drive a bone stock Porsche at the track on OEM tires all day long - for several days - and not cord out the edges. When I feel the tires are losing grip and no longer holding, I simply back the car off a bit - there's no point in continuing to push where the outside edges are rolling/skidding. Track days are all about learning smooth and balance in a street car - if you're trying for lap times then you need a real race car and boy-oh-boy what a slippery slope that is.

jsknowlton

tire internal cords showing on outside edge. Cold pressure of fronts set at 28 - 30 rears. I am not sure on the hot temperatures but assume 4 or 5 psi more. This was recommended and actually done by my instructor the first track day that we tracked this car one month ago. This weekend I was participating in a 2 day Driver's Edge event and only made it through the first 4 track session day. Discovered the exposed cords. 991.2 2 GTS Coupe. Standard camber set up. Rear wheel steering manual. 5 spoke Tubo S rims.

jsknowlton

Your assessment is correct. I am a relative novice (either 7 or 8 track days total for me in my past 3 cars, E92 M3, Cayman GTS 2016, now2018 991.2 Carrera GTS) but overdriving and lack of smoothness is my flaw. It still seems a little excessive to wear out only the outside edge. I do think the main problem is my driving but i would also think the track adjustments to camber are well worth doing and returning to normal for driving.

However this will definitely make me focus on smoothness likely improve my driving quite a bit. Thanks.