Indeed.

Panorama can only supply the same evidence everyone else uses from Porsche itself, or Automotive News. Ask me how I know... That info is probably pretty accurate, though one dealer noted that a lot of people don't realize it shows sales to dealers (not customers), which makes sense for a manufacturer/distributor to tally.


Thanks!

Boy, 911 sales sure look pretty stable to me—being off by, what, 3.7% vs 2016? Hardly conclusive, given model availability and other factors. Curious to see the 2013-2015 figures, as well as the global tally, but I don't think 991.2 sales are looking as dim as some would have us believe.

718 sales, on the other hand…

 

Its hard to judge these numbers without some context.

The overall market for sports cars has generally declined with the gradual aging of the population. So in that respect if there’s only been a slight decrease in 911 sales YoY one has to wonder what the overall decrease (or increase?) in sports car sales is for the same period. Maybe 911 sales has held up better than the overall market for sports cars.

By by the same token the increase in Macan sales may be misleading as the market for small-midsize SUVs has been on fire of late.

 

Sure. Numbers are declining for the second year straight, and not to get into “this discussion” nor intending to discount the .2 virtues, but it’s worth noting that's precisely when .2's came out and when .1’s values started rising significantly on the used market (2015 was the last full year of .1 sales, which were just slightly less than the peak sales of 2014, and 2013 which had no 918 sales included were also about in line). Of course, no way to know what's going on behind the scenes and I don’t know the base to S breakdown, but I don’t think I remember a time when any facelift showed a decline of sales from the last year of a previous cycle. Usually at least some boost is seen. Often a big boost.

Since my initial response was to the subject of sales between the two models, of course base cars sell the vast majority for both.

The 718 sales make me sad, yet also happy. It's a perplexing feeling. On one hand, I feel the message needed to be sent to Porsche that people won't tolerate paying those prices on cars that sound as badly as they do, powered by 4 cylinders. On the other, the 718 and all Caymans/Boxsters of all gens are about the best and most fun drivers cars you can get. The mid engine sports cars are such flawless masterpieces, it would be devastating to the enthusiast community if they were to go the way of the 928, etc. Caymans/Boxsters deserve their place and spotlight in the Porsche lineup just as much as the 911's do, as they're that good. And aside from the horrible sound, the 718 S is about the most flawless car I've driven.

 

Hey, thanks for the above.

Now I remember that weird decision to lump 918 sales in with 911 sales. Something was up there, whether it was a mistake or an intentional masking for the sake of the 911 or the 918. I remember being bugged by it then, and (predictably) it's more annoying now. I think it's hard to draw too many conclusions from some of these numbers, as we tend to see what we see and then the numbers support that. There are a lot of things going on, from economy to model availability to new competitors to customer taste. The 911 numbers are noticeable and interesting but close enough that I wouldn't want to make a broad conclusion without more info.

The 981/982 offer a big enough change that I agree with your conclusions, but there is probably more to the story even if my gut and yours suggest the car is hampered by price for four cylinders and its engine noise, which has been universally criticized (a flat six is a very tough act to follow). They styling has been criticized, as well, but I have yet to meet someone who isn't amazed by the 718's handling and performance. I feel like you do—while I don't care for the styling or sound of the current car, I hope the Boxster/Cayman platform is here to stay for a long, long time.

 

Yeah, it's certainly not a massive change. To me what signifies "trend" is being what I believe is the first downsales from a previous model + the rising .1 values. The 918 models easily counted for less than 100 cars a month (technically far less as it split into 2 years) and 2013's sales of 8,246 didn't include any 918 sales.

I'm not sure how sports car sales are trending relative to the whole car market, but it is also worth mentioning that car sales are higher now than they were in 2013-2015, thus the share of the overall market is less currently. Porsche's sales are at their peak right now, but it's clear the Macan has been literally swallowing the brands sales charts.

Yep, long live the mid engine P Cars! I absolutely loved the 718 S I drove. Chris Harris knocked its brutal torque curve for taking away the "sweetness" that made them so charmingly rewarding to drive via those rev happy flat sixes. I feel him on that, but still or otherwise, I can't knock it for anything other than sound. It is an absolute MARVEL of a drive. Very visceral and go karty.

 

Remember that a) these are PCNA sales to dealers and b) this is calendar year, not model year, information, best I can tell (otherwise "October Sales" makes no sense.)

I don't remember the date 911s officially switched from 991.1 to 991.2, but wasn't it early 2016? And if so, wouldn't dealer "purchases" of 991.2 from Porsche, as reflected in this data, have started happening a couple months previous?

My point being, it's likely nearly ALL 2016 911 sales reflected in this chart are 991.2, isn't it?

 

Exactly. So it is more appropriate to compare CY 2015 (almost all 991.1) to CY 2017 (all 991.2). Clearly the 911 sales have declined. But I agree with the previous poster, that it is equally important to understand any sales slow down in the overall sports car market. I'd love to see ROW 911 sales for the same period. I recall that someone posted them in another thread.

 

These sales figures are definitely calendar year, or month, and during model year transitions, they include both model years as dealer inventories typically overlap with at least two model years for a considerable time period.

These figures are also supposed to be retail sales to customers and not wholesale units that go into dealer inventory. However, cars that dealers buy as loaners and such are also counted as those cars are taken out of inventory and accumulating miles.

 

Yes, 2016 calendar sales would be mostly 991.2’s. 2015 would be the last of full 991.1 sales. Sales were pretty consistent from 2013-2015 at over 8K+, with the peak in 2014 at 8,769.

ROW breakdowns would be interesting so I’ll look for that.

 

I think 991.2s didn't go on sale until about May, so the dealers still had plenty of 991.1s in inventory. My guess would be that 2016 sales were two thirds 2s and one third 1s. Also, there's always a reduction in sales when a new version is on the way.

 

But having them in inventory and "buying" them from PCNA are two different things. In fact, I doubt it was even possible for dealers to order a 991.1 in 2016, given the length of build time and the time to close the line and switch it to .2 production, plus the time to build .2 inventory so dealers around the world could have inventory for a May launch.

Of course, I don't know if a 991.1 ordered in Nov. 2015 and delivered in Jan 2016 (if that even was happening) would count as a 2015 or 2016 sale in the above metrics.

At any rate, there's no way it's a 2/3 - 1/3 split.. Dealer demand for 991.1s in 2016 would have been about zero.

 

Everything I’ve seen mentions September 2018 as being the launch of the 992 thus I truly think that the 911 T is a good send off. I think allocations are also for early 2018 delivery so even the timing makes sense for it to be the last model of the 991 generation.

 

In that case, what kind of discounts on new MY 2018 991.2s on the lots at that time are to be expected in December 2018? Is 20% off a dream?

 

Jesus why is every thread here now leading to the same .1 vs .2 arguments? And can people stop taking a piece of the chart trying to make a very opinionated point? Here's US 911 sales over a longer period of time


Hmmm so what happened from 2014 to 2015? As some people in this thread would suggest, did porsche change their engines??? O wait... ya, i will keep waiting until people make up some more bull**** responses to justify their personal purchase decision.

Oh also, yea there's been a huge drop in terms demand for sports cars in the past two years http://carsalesbase.com/car-sales-us...ar-segment-us/

Sorry to burst people's bubbles, there are bigger things at play than how one car company turbo charged their engines. Now can we get back on topic?