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911 Carrera T

 
Old 10-26-2017, 02:42 PM
  #196  
Archimedes
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Originally Posted by StudGarden View Post
Just curious but what’s the massive appeal of RWS in a supposedly back to basics purist(ish) car?
Every test I've read that commented on RWS in the new standard Carrera's have raved about how much more nimble the car is. One of the GTS reviews I watched compared the cars with/without back to back and said it made a big difference in the ability to change directions and they would absolutely spec it.
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Old 10-26-2017, 03:13 PM
  #197  
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If this thing weighed 200lbs less I think we'd have something, otherwise the weight difference seems negligible.
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Old 10-26-2017, 04:44 PM
  #198  
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Originally Posted by StudGarden
Just curious but what’s the massive appeal of RWS in a supposedly back to basics purist(ish) car?
It handles better, and turns better, more enjoyable.. just like the 911R. Rear steering is now seen as a common handling enhancement.

Maybe there was a time when front steering was seen as not appealing in a back to basics purist(ish) car.
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Old 10-26-2017, 05:28 PM
  #199  
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Originally Posted by switchface View Post
If this thing weighed 200lbs less I think we'd have something, otherwise the weight difference seems negligible.
Just curious - Anyone know weight savings with LWBs and rear seat delete? And is it available in US?
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Old 10-26-2017, 11:14 PM
  #200  
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Originally Posted by StudGarden View Post
Just curious but what’s the massive appeal of RWS in a supposedly back to basics purist(ish) car?
The whole notion of "back to basics purist car" even one that is one "-ish" is silly.

How back to basics? No power steering? No ABS? No synchro MT? Enjoy double-clutching much?

That's pretty basic.

But it's certainly nothing like how I'd like or want my modern Porsche to drive.

Make the drive more involving, yes. But back to basics? That's just hogwash.
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Old 10-27-2017, 01:10 AM
  #201  
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Originally Posted by Petevb View Post
The biggest remaining advantage Carrera T has vs its mid-engined siblings is that it drives like a 911, and the RWS is dialing that out.
The Rear Axle Steering does not dial it out but reins it in so its more nimble under all circumstances. This is not conjecture.

I think you'll find GT3/GT3 RS owners and anyone that has experienced the poise of RAS under hard driving would disagree with you particularly as you can still feel the rear weight bias, have to manage it carefully under high speed transitions and gain the benefit of the superb traction out of corners.

Also for many, torque with power (that delivers loads of power under the curve) and shorter gearing is far better than power without torque and long gearing (along with a glass 3rd gear).
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Old 10-27-2017, 02:34 AM
  #202  
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Originally Posted by randr View Post
Originally Posted by Petevb View Post
The biggest remaining advantage Carrera T has vs its mid-engined siblings is that it drives like a 911, and the RWS is dialing that out.
The Rear Axle Steering does not dial it out but reins it in so its more nimble under all circumstances.
What exactly is the difference between “reins it in” and “dials it out”?

What language would you prefer? Improves transient response? Transitions faster? True and more, but traits traditionally associated with mid-engine rather than rear-engine cars. There is no question that a 991 GT3 feels far more “mid-engined” dynamically than a 997 GT3/ RS driven back to back. If that’s a good thing or not is a matter of opinion, but it’s a fact.

Not everyone, myself included, thinks it’s a good thing for all purposes. While I’d personally probably go with RWS on a GT3 (and I am, in fact) I wouldn’t want it on a Carrera T. I do debate if I’ll like it on the GT3 long term- it’s undeniably faster than a 997 GT3 RS, for example, but arguably rounds off a few too many sharp edges. For me, anyway...

On the Spyder/ GT4 topic it’s pretty easy to avoid the months with the 3rd gear issue at this point, btw.
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Old 10-27-2017, 04:09 AM
  #203  
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Originally Posted by Petevb View Post
What exactly is the difference between “reins it in” and “dials it out”? .
Its a pretty big difference in my view - dials it out means its not there, whereas, reins it in means its still there but better controlled.

I can feel the rear end with RAS, it communicates its weight well and you can learn to use very well. At pace its like driving a waltz .

If you want a top drawer corner carver, RAS is too good a gift to leave unopened.
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Old 10-27-2017, 05:21 AM
  #204  
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AP did say they tried the R without the RAS and it drove like a truck. I can see the back to basics/give you more rear engine feel argument but I think I would take it anyway. Would be great to try them back to back.
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:09 PM
  #205  
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While a lot of members on RL want the LWBs I don't think a lot of dealers will spec the car with them. Remember the launch 911 in 09 that came with a version of those back then. IIRC a lot of dealers had issues selling them and those cars sat for a while.
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:51 PM
  #206  
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Originally Posted by ExMB View Post
While a lot of members on RL want the LWBs I don't think a lot of dealers will spec the car with them. Remember the launch 911 in 09 that came with a version of those back then. IIRC a lot of dealers had issues selling them and those cars sat for a while.
That was a very different car (997.2 C4S) in a very different time (2009; pre-Porsche-as-investment-vehicles).
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:55 PM
  #207  
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One of the only reasons I’d even consider a T is the standard seats that come with it. They look by far the best as well as how it was meant to look. The space shuttle buckets look downright comical. And anyone who has the ability to thrash the car so hard and consistently that they physically exceed the capabilities of the standard seats and “need” the buckets (lol yeah right Mario) then they’re in the wrong car to begin with.
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:59 PM
  #208  
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Originally Posted by Gravs View Post
AP did say they tried the R without the RAS and it drove like a truck. I can see the back to basics/give you more rear engine feel argument but I think I would take it anyway. Would be great to try them back to back.
He says a lot of things. IMO that was 100% marketing; as a minimalist street car the 911R should not have had RWS. In my experience the advantage of RWS is the near elimination of understeer and with it the need for a lot of skill to drive a 911 quickly on track.
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Old 10-27-2017, 01:14 PM
  #209  
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Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
That was a very different car (997.2 C4S) in a very different time (2009; pre-Porsche-as-investment-vehicles).
So you are classifying this "T" model as investment grade?
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Old 10-27-2017, 01:20 PM
  #210  
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Originally Posted by Petevb View Post
Not everyone, myself included, thinks it’s a good thing for all purposes. While I’d personally probably go with RWS on a GT3 (and I am, in fact) I wouldn’t want it on a Carrera T. I do debate if I’ll like it on the GT3 long term- it’s undeniably faster than a 997 GT3 RS, for example, but arguably rounds off a few too many sharp edges. For me, anyway...
You're not the only one—there are chassis engineers within Weissach who don't love RWS, even on the hottest models. It's a bit like PDK again, coming down to personal preference on the "experience" despite recognizing the undeniable performance advantage.

I'm not sure where I fall on it. If I don't feel it working in an extremely artificial way (and I don't on the .2 Turbo or GT3s), I don't mind it. But I wouldn't have it on a T. In fact, I wish one could keep the LSD but delete the PTV...
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