joe'sdad

I'm finishing year 2 of ownership of my first Porsche, a good daily driver: Plat Silver C2 - PDK, Sport Crono & PASM. I'm blown away at the build quality and while it doesn't compare in a number of areas to the visceral enjoyment of my '03 M5 in most areas, it really is a blast to turn the wheel and a much different animal. I was initially looking for a 991 C2S, but got a good deal and wanted to engage with the brand initially on a base model.

So, I'm looking for more (and have been since 6 mos of ownership) and have some options. I really appreciate your opinions. The challenge I find with the 991 is too much refinement that gets in the way of connectivity... in the way of lowered cabin noise and comfort, I fear that a faster 991 may not be the right choice as a DD and I'd be frustrated with the usefulness. I admit, that I'm still trying to enjoy the PDK. I think that an MT would have been a smarter choice.

For more of what i'm looking for, I could do one or some of the following for a daily driver:

- faster 991.1
- MT
- Convertible
- 997
- Air cooled
- Mods to my car (I have no idea where to start)

I've had a hankering for a 997TT MT for awhile, but I might need to wait.

Glad for any thoughts since opinions matter and I can't test drive everything. I think that a 997TT and a PDK 991.1 C2S are very close on paper, but the 997 feels more fun.

Cheers!

Greg D.

My 2 cents... Keep your current car as is (yes MT may work better for you but the 991 7MT is strange and would benefit from being a 6 speed like the latest R or GT3 touring), and buy an older aircooled 911... You want visceral ? Try something like a 1974-1989 car, which will definitely "connect" you to the road and provide visceral enjoyment, at lower speeds, without breaking the bank... I'd have said a long hood (65/73) instead for an even purer experience, but those are more expensive than a 991 now... i've always been happiest with one modern car and one oldie, you will appreciate both more when you swap...

I currently have a 72 911T (the lowest rung of the ladder, at that) which is an MFI injection car. That thing sounds so badass inside and out, even at idle, but the run up to the redline makes the hair on my arms stand.... Even at low speeds... No need for sports exhaust, trust me ! The 991 is "impressive', but to be this "engaging" it needs to be thrown in a 100 mph turn on a race track... Different deal, it's all the modern cars really, so competent and effortless that the limits are very high...

joe'sdad

Thanks Greg - I think you know what I'm going for, and why I've been looking at older or open air options. I like that idea and sort of have it now with the e39, but I was also thinking that with two "older cars" I'd have at least one in working order and can cover my DD needs. If I have one car, the 997TT seems to be it, with a foot in both camps up to a point.

KWP1911

I have an '02 E39 M5 and I'm looking for a 991 myself. Are you saying it's a better driving experience in the M5 than the 911?

I'm looking for a manual though. I test drove a PDK car just Saturday and I also agreed that the manual is more for me than the PDK car.

I like the interior much better in the 991 than a 997 though.

tstafford

997TT would be my recommendation. Most of them are 6-spd, it has power to burn and it will give you a more visceral experience. Plus the price is right on them - IMO. FWIW - I owned one and liked it a lot. It's a great road car - wouldn't want it on the track but I'm not getting the vibe that you're looking for a track oriented 911.

phx991

You should drive a 991.1 C2S. I drove both the base and S 991.1 while shopping for my first Porsche, and to me the difference was so great I dropped the base 991.1 from my short list.

I chose the 991.2 base because it's better suited to driving around town, which is 99% of my intended use. In the .2 the performance difference between base and S is less apparent to me, but in the .1 it's a huge difference.

joe'sdad

991 drives better, twisty roads are great. I think that the MT would be a great fit. The e39 M5 felt like a bus when I got back into it after my first 3 mos. That said, the 991 really is no fun IMHO under 4k RPM and I was getting stuck in golf cart mode (even in Sport). I'm really trying to make the effort to use the paddles and sport crono. But while better on paper, having 3 pedals is still the best probability. Clicking a paddle is so unsatisfying at 8k.

All that said, the pulling power in 3rd and noise of the M5 - with an older car (less noise reduction and luxury) - I haven't found that to be matched and why I'm looking to upgrade or trade in.

I like the suggestion of just getting a 3rd, older 911.

joe'sdad

Thanks - I did drive the C2S, and even with the refinement, it gave me the better highway thrills that I was looking for.

ipse dixit

If you want something more visceral and raw, go air cooled and get a 993.

No reason to go backwards in terms of modern 911s (i.e., from a 991 to a 997 or 996).

kwikit356

The best old-school air-cooled 911 I've ever owned or driven is the 993 C2 coupe. It's certainly quick enough to be thrilling, but the best part is the connection you feel to it. Not quite as much feedback as you get from an unassisted steering rack, but very, very close. The rear suspension on the 993 is a complete game changer from even the 964. And, it's a blast to drive at license preserving speeds.

However, with the 991, I have found that with a good suspension set-up (without having to spend ridiculous money- just have the alignment set to perhaps max negative on the OEM struts) you can get much better steering feel and feedback. Then try to stay in the lower gears in the power band- I've found that this can make the "too refined and too capable" 991 quite a bit more entertaining at lower speeds.

GregD

That's funny to me (and in no way critical of your view), it simply goes to show you how far back (or not) one needs to go to get that raw feeling acccording to their own internal calibration ;-)

To me the 993 was super smooth and lacked in feedback, it was the reason I sold mine... But you are right too, it's just a matter of degree...I was coming at it from an 83 911SC, so yeah...

I agree with all of you going back to a 997 is not gonna help, it'll just make more tire noise in the cabin and you will overpay because 997.2s are the market darling at the moment ;-) I recommended 74-89 911 simply based on price as in an addition scenario (keep your car, add that), because you can still score one <$40K, 993s and early 911s are all way more $$$... Ironically the most connected I ever felt in a car was my 1957 356A (long gone) - you could feel everything in that car, including the perpetually mis-adjusted drum brakes, sheer panic, and the lack of power ;-) I see you had a few 356s as well, how about your cayman R ? wouldn't that that work as well?

I'll stick with the overall idea, keep your 991, it's a great car ! Add a manual oldie, to the degree that matches your feel and your budget... You know what, maybe even a non porsche... I keep harping on the bmw 2002 (roundie) as the most fun for your $ secret out there - reliable, quick, full of feel. Otherwise maybe an Alfa GTV ? All come with feel in spades!