K-A

Posted this in the air cooled forum accidentally. So let's try it again here:

Well I've been in the 991.1 market for a couple months now. It seems not only has depreciation been minimal to nil since 991.2's came out, but something is going on where in the past week, ALL the especially "good" example 991.1's I was eyeing (some which previously were sitting for weeks or months) have sold. I mean ALL, and I'm talking all over the country. Some which were asking outrageous prices, appear to have sold for them. Some which I made even remotely aggressive offers on, declined and sold for considerably higher than what I offered.

When I say they're selling instantly, I mean instantly. And 2 weekends ago is when it started. One in particular I've been eyeing for 2 months and talking to the owner with (it's not an ideal build and it's asking too much) just informed me he got an offer to sell it for almost asking price, to someone who thinks they can resell it for HIGHER.

I've been saying for a while that I think 991.1's will hold value extremely well now that 911's are turbo's. Maybe like a soft version of what happened to the 993. But I'm getting to a point where I think the value metric is so far gone (many have no warranty) that I'm starting to reconsider getting a brand new Macan GTS for the same price.

Anyone else picking up on this? Initially it seemed only 991.1 S's were holding such steady values, but now it appears Base cars are flying before I can even pick up the phone or send an email to inquire about them.

randr

Why would you cross shop a Macan with a 911? totally different beast.......

Bents

Check out the Hot For Sale stickied thread. I also sent you a PM about my car that I'm considering selling.

K-A

Lonnng story. But I tend to look all over the place when searching cars. This time I know I want a Porsche again, and love the Macan, as well sort of require it's extremely generous headroom. And the GTS is maybe the best overall-car I've ever driven.

The 911, as remarkably generous as its headroom is, is a bit tighter for my height. Also for the same price as the Macan GTS I'm not gonna get as long a warranty (if any at all), but the 911 is the dream. The Macan GTS is closer to a "911 for tall people" in my situation I guess you can say, but I'll always long for a 911. Also there's a Macan facelift due next year (likely very subtle) and a 992, which is also weighing on my decision a bit.

Honestly finding a 991 with no sunroof (which I require) and with a color I like, options I like, low miles, some warranty, price I like, pristine, is proving testing. Which is why I started reconsidering the Macan GTS again.

Thanks; sent a PM back.

visitador

Sometimes dealers' websites are not updated. There is a Porsche dealer in Boston that is notorious in listing a car for awhile even though it was sold last Winter. IMHO these cars are widely configured. If you are picky about a particular option you may never find one. You have to determine how important is a "must have" option. I have seen so many at the HFS thread saying "like this but missing a must have option." So, they get stuck in that cycle of never having their car (or maybe they never really wanted to have one).

Best of luck and keep checking the HFS. That is where I found mine

erko1905

I agree, I've been casually browsing the used 991.1 market to get a sense of what kind of depreciation I'm looking at, and the market looks well bid. I got my 14 991.1 C4S last year in April thinking the last naturally aspirated Carrera will be a good vintage to own, but this is a bit more and sooner than expected. It roughly looks like I'd be able to sell the car for what I bought it for, minus an adjustment for miles I put on.

STG

I have a 991.1 C2S and a Macan S.

The Macan is no 911. The Macan is a sporty cross over and a nice one. Should never be compared to a 911.

Funny when it first came out, all the dealers were saying drives just like a 911, has 911 DNA, blah blah blah.

IT'S NO 911 ... it's a Porsche with all familiar interior styling, etc. but so is the Panamera.

Still, no 911 ..


And to the OP, you must not follow HFS at all? I'd start there. Will make your life easier. Spend time reading more than posting. You'll learn a lot.

shake1

I've noticed a similar trend and I was searching for over the last 6+ months. It's a bit frustrating, first to wait for the one I wanted, secondly acting on it. Originally planned on spending $60-$65k but that crept up. I was hunting on cars.com/autotrader/truecar/ebay motors/craigslist/HFS thread multiple times a day. I had a few close calls over this time period:

1) 2014 Base 911, 11k miles. $107k MSRP. Hyundai Dealer listed it for $69,995. I offered $69k shipped to California from Boston (so excluding shipping cost my offer was around $67.5). They obviously sold it for more than what I offered. Didn't realize it was a good deal at the time even at what they were asking.

2) CPO 2015 Base 911, 24k miles. $113k MSRP. Porsche Monterey listed it for $74,991. I called the day after it was posted, said they needed to finish the CPO process. So went in 4th day later, test drove it. It wasn't in the greatest condition, heavy rock chips on hood and hips of car, underbody looked a bit rusted (maybe cuz it was near ocean?), and damage on the leather dash near the sport chrono. Despite this I made an offer of $72.5k since this was local and had all the options I wanted. They said no way, I came up t o$74.0k with dealer fees included and said that's the best I can do. They wouldn't budge from asking even a cent and weren't willing to wave the ~750 dealer fees. I decided to walk. Next day they raised the price up to $75,999. Got an email 2 days later saying it sold.

3) CPO 2014 Carrera 4, 9k miles, private seller, $119k MSRP, asking $76.5k. Had everything I wanted (minus rims) Saw it posted on auto trader Sunday morning. Called and discussed throughout the day. Tuesday we agreed on a price not far off from asking. Flew on Friday, completed the deal and drove it back. He told me there were quite a few others lined up as well behind me - honest guy so I believe him...I mistakingly assumed there wouldn't be much competition since most buyers seem to prefer dealer instead of private party.

I was surprised at this entire experience of purchasing a 911. I figured since I was looking for a base 3.4L model it would'n't be as competitive and through this was a good time to get a used one since the 991.2 was out. People seem to know which ones are nicely optioned and act on them quickly, even for a base.

I'm glad to finally have one now. Knowing my luck they'll start depreciating like crazy and a ton more pop up in the market now that I'm done shopping...

Pete

Welcome to the anguish of searching for a used car that's popular! I decided last fall that I wanted to find a 997.2, preferably a 2S. I stopped at a dealer about 200 miles from where I live while visiting my grandson and they had no 997s but a partner dealer in another state had a 991.1, 4S, PDK, full leather (espresso and cognac), agate, 14K miles, CPO, asking $87.9K on a car with a list price of $136K. I should have written them a check on the spot! but NOOOOO, I had been planning on a car in the 70s and this was at least $10K more than I wanted to spend. I told them I had to think about it. This was on a Saturday and the following Monday when I was back home i checked their web site and of course the car had been sold.

In any case, this got me started thinking about a 991.1 instead of a 997.2 and from all I had read, the 991 was a lot more car. So I began searching for a 991.1 2S similarly equipped to the one I had missed on. I searched all dealers within about 300 miles of where I live and saw tons of white and black whereas I wanted silver or agate, nothing equipped just like I wanted (PDK, sport chrono, CPO) and after almost 6 months I found the car I wound up buying, at the same dealership that had the car I had passed on last fall. It's agate, 2S, standard black interior, PDK, SC, CPO, 18K miles, for the same price they had been asking for the 4S last fall and this car had an original list of $116K. By that I would have expected a little lower asking price and they did knock a grand off, but I had looked for nearly 6 months, the car was equipped almost exactly as I would have ordered, and most of all I wanted the car! So I probably paid too much but I got a car I love. I didn't even look at private party cars because I wanted CPO and I wanted to trade my 993.

Morals to the story? When you see what you want or close to it, pull the trigger because there's another guy around the corner who is looking just like you arem And if you miss on one, keep looking, they're out there.

Pete

911passion

Just sharing, the 991.1 MT market is hot. No question. I just sold my MT after 18 month for the same price I paid and got another one. People are actively looking for MT cars.

Hurricane

There is a dealer on here selling a near-twin to my car for more than I paid for mine over a year ago....with more miles than mine had on it and six months less remaining on the CPO warranty than mine. Prices seem to be holding up pretty well, at least in the short term!

Archimedes

Asset. Bubble.

pdutta2000

For me there are 2 things in play here for 991.1 prices:

1. There just aren't that many 991.2 cars out there. Only the 2017 models are out and the 2018s are about to be released (see EPA hold thread). That's a huge number of cars that aren't on the road and probably quite a few early 991.1s that haven't been traded in yet. This is short term and we should see a correction soon.

2. The MSRPs for the 991.2 cars are enormous. Measurably higher than 991.1 cars. This leads to a pricing gap and slows depreciation.

The real test of the 991.1 market will be next spring. Presumably a whole lot of 2018 cars will have been delivered, a 992 announcement will be imminent and the first batch of 2017 lease vehicles will be turned in. If prices still hold up then you know it is a keeper.

BTW I'm a Base 991.1 guy so I'm really hoping that values stay. I honestly think I can sell my car for more than I bought it last year which is crazy.

eisenb11

Interesting that the values are staying so high. Curious what I can get for my car when I'm ready to offload it in Dec. 2015 991.1 base, pdk, no sunroof will probably only have around 14k miles on the clock.

drcollie

A few thoughts here - just my opinion.

997.2's sound like ****. If part of driving a Porsche is the aural experience, you're not going to get it with anything that has a turbo on it. While the engine has more grunt off the line on the new models, it lack that classic Porsche "pull" that you get at 3,800 rpm when the engine gets on the cam and starts wailing. Finally, the powerplant is heavier overall - I believe its around 50 lb, not that its a deal killer for most, just a data point.

Then, onto the financials. I was in the dealer on Wednesday considering a 2018 Targa 4S coming in. $ 150K and no discounts. They offered me $ 72K on my 2014 Cab S with 17K miles on it. My car is not too shabby - this photo taken this week:

So I have to pay over twice as much to get 15% more car, then another $ 6K in sales tax, and double my personal property tax in VA every year on the car (currently $ 3K annually, would go to $ 6K). It's just not worth it.

I think a combination of all those factors is why the 991.1's are not being fire-saled out. But what do I know?