ace37

So off in 6speed land, a user E-gear has been on a long term quest to break into nine second quarter mile times with stock tires, and stock turbos, and a lot of custom tuning and ice buckets etc. He's been posting about progress for a long time along with a lot of tips on how to get there, and now he finally did it! .... except not really at all. Some of the timeslips came from Honda-Tech, and the timeslip where he hit the goal was actually a copy of one from the GTR forums...

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...-4-mile-2.html

It's not clear what the guy's motive was, but the whole deal is a bit strange! Internet stardom? Odd...

sdg1871

The fraud of this individual extended far beyond the one time slip. In total users on 6speed uncovered three different threads where E Gear posted Timeslips that he had stolen and photoshopped from other forums:

First: a slip from a GTR forum where he claimed a 9.999 quarter-mile on stock Turbos and no meth or nitrous. Give me a freaking break.

Second: a 10.05 Time slip which he had stolen and photoshopped from a Honda forum claiming this remarkable time on stock turbos and intercoolers and no meth or nitrous. Once again give me a break. The real record with this level of mods was posted by Mark Blackwell on drag radials -- posting a 10.19 (GIAC Stage 2+ tune, Champion Motorsports intercoolers and GMG catless exhaust)

Third: a 10.50 slip that he had stolen from the Cadillac CTS forum (claiming it was stock).

The ironic thing was that this summer in that other forum (owned by the exact same company which owns this forum) when he posted his10.05 slip which was obviously cut off and doctored I called him out on it and was condemned by him on the forum and many other users of the same mods and accused of some untoward motive such as harming the tuner. This was laughable given that I had praised and never challenged results from other customers of the same tuner who are known for being honest and straight up in this community.

The irony is that the tuner in question clearly had zero involvement or knowledge of E-Gear's chicanery and has a great reputation in the industry. The sad part is that the tuner got ripped apart on the GTR forum and accused of being complicit in it but there's no way that happened. Stated differently E-Gear unwittingly hurt the vendor he apparently intended to help which is doubly unfortunate because I truly believe the vendor is blameless and was not involved in any fraudulent activity.

The bottom line is that if somebody posts a time slip that is wildly inconsistent with all the many other results and appears too good to be true it probably is because these cars and no tuner can defy the laws of physics.

FBA

A Cadiallac CTS did 10.50? Damn - that's hauling ***! LOL I just finished reading all the threads over there. Unreal...

You know me there as Blown SRT Scott.

sdg1871

One thing I learned from my time at T2K which has tons of American muscle is that many owners of American muscle who compete in these events use nitrous. With nitrous and drag radials it's probably possible in the CTS.

Randyc151

I feel like I need a shower now after reading all of that crap on 6speed!

sdg1871

Jalopnik picked up this story of timeslip fraud:

http://jalopnik.com/porsche-driver-f...t-l-1789050650

stealthpilot

I personally think the tuner was happy to see this guy posting insane results because they drove sales to unwitting people who thought they could get similar results. As you yourself noticed - the times defied the laws of physics. If you know that, then surely a tuner whose business is to know this sort of thing, would also know that. And the tuner posted the slip for the guy on one of the threads. Most of his posts afterwards were to downplay the event rather than to apologize for the misleading information that E-gear had been spreading. I don't think the tuner is to blame, but I do think he should have been leading the skeptics rather than relishing the results.

sdg1871

I do think there was some willful blindness about results that everyone knew were bull**** and unnecessary aggression towards people like me who called the slips out as bull**** because it impacted business. I don't think the tuner actively participated in the fraud though.

I do agree there's been extensive efforts to try to minimize the seriousness of what happened. People on the other forum bought modifications based on those Timeslips. To that end I received a long and detailed private message from one of them yesterday which I won't post publicly so as to protect the identity and privacy of the person who sent it to me but it's very upsetting to read.

What is downright appalling to me is that remember who posted these fraudulent Timeslips has not been banned. A real slap in the face to the people that this asshat defrauded into buying thousands of dollars of modifications

At times I wonder whether certain forums are legitimate places for the exchange of ideas or just sales shills for certain vendors. To me any forum with integrity would never ever ever allow somebody like that animal to ever post one thing again on that forum or any other owned by Internet Brands.

Randyc151

If I'm that tuner, I would have been skeptical all along, and would not have been involved at all in posting anything. I think in the back of his mind he probably knew something funky was up, and he played along instead of kept quiet.

That all said, I ALWAYS take everything on these forums with a grain of salt. I always try to give good advice when asked, but there have been times that I've received help from people that I later discovered to be far less experienced than me, or totally making something up. It's pretty disappointing.

F1CrazyDriver

Maybe i'm one of the few - however theirs no point in bulling this person into a corner. Let it go. Not funny imo. Intentionally he made false claims- just leave it up the thread for others to learn and that's it.

ace37

I think part of the problem is some of the skeptics (including posters above) were treated very poorly over years for voicing their skepticism. Now that it's clear the claims were bogus, the skeptics aren't getting any attaboys but rather more negative feedback. It's easy for us on the sidelines to just slough it off as a strange and elaborate hoax but some invested a lot of emotional energy. Apologies are due but it appears they will never come. A few good and contributing members have fresh wounds. So a bit of frustration is the natural response, and for the deceived (JMHO) a bit of patience is in order. Retaliatory behavior would be inappropriate, but venting frustration... that's not something I'll get worked up about.

sdg1871

That pretty much sums it up. Not a word of apology to me from the vendor who posted the fraudulent 10.05 timeslip and who supported and joined the attacks on the skeptics of those timeslips--which included PMs to members to try to discredit the skeptics and attack the skeptics for some ill motive.

Now Just calls to move on and sweep what happened under the rug so that the cash register can keep on ringing. And still no apology for attacking the skeptics who knew the timeslip was forged and the results bogus.

stealthpilot

I think that tuner should be ashamed and should apologize. Personally I would steer clear of him. The way he's trying to delete threads and sweep this away is not right.

SamboTT@ByDesign

Hello everyone. This topic has been very very frustrating for everyone and I can understand as well as share in all of the many reasons this would be a disservice and slap in the face. I'm the one who put a lot of effort into the car and customer and I was asked one of those times to post the supposed accomplishment/slip for him. Actually every time. On the 10.055 claim he made I actually did it for him. As in post what he sent me. I'm one of the ones who asked the moderator to leave the main thread there even after it's closed for everyone to see. I just was frustrated because there were literally 3-4 threads talking about the same thing. Shoot on 6speed they are already joking about it. Anyone who's gone through it can see that all of the instances were pointed out. Nothing being hidden. This has unfortunately been done many times by him. Interestingly the 10.14 and or 10.17 slips if I remember haven't shown up in discussion yet. Maybe they will. I wonder if even those ones were not real. Your guess is as good as mine.

Let's be clear on something as I mentioned in the other thread. This was very upsetting to me and it was something that really pushed my buttons more than anyone else. I got more text, email and calls from friends, clients and other members who were blown away and never even thought I was involved in the fake claims or slips being a figment of his imagination. Nobody was hurt in this physically but we were all messed with. My reputation which I have built for 20 years was put on the line by him. I'm proud and grateful for all the support that I've received from members here who realize it would never do anything like this. It's not in my character and has never been any close to matching my M.O. I was not raised that way. I have to much to lose that I have put a lot of time and extensive effort in building. Not only that, we have earned plenty of achievements, firsts, records and developments around the world to need or have time for it. Trust me sometimes I get sick of myself because there's always something going on with By Design but it just continues to fuel me. And that's another big reason why I always will show appreciation and make sure service and contribution to the community is number one. This same package he had has produced 134-136 mph in the quarter mile. That's a good amount of power. Also we have had cars running anywhere from 10.07 to 10.50 and up with this configuration. It wasn't completely out of the realm of possibility for this to actually be achieved. Especially after the extensive amount of support I provided to this customer. Whatever he needed till he was happy like I do for all of my friends/customers. From delivery to installation through to extensive tuning. This car was running strong… Very strong. Logs looked great and it was totally capable of impressing people. Remember no one can't do it until someone does! We said that when we were first here to hit 9.9. Then 9.8. Not 9.7 over and over in different states with different cars. Would he have gotten nines on Stage 3? Who knows. We will find out in the near future as we keep getting faster and faster. I believe a tuner in the Middle East has hit nine seconds without turbo chargers or nitrous already. The part where E-Gear always threw me off was with the tires. But I saw the 60 foot like everyone else. Never had it crossed my mind that these would be fabricated slips to even question it. It is a very wacky situation. I'm actually happy it was caught and now that I am emotionally getting over it I'm able to get back focused and realize you never stop learning. And that we should all probably take verification of results or for that matter people s a whole a little more seriously because you never know who you are dealing with. On that note there's two things that I wanted to be sure to say. I wanted him to do achieve his goal like anyone else. I think everyone who knows me understands I love what I do and I am truly right there with you guys. I'm just lucky that I can make a living out of it. And if I can do a good job and be successful at it while being known for very high quality customer service and satisfaction then I'm proud of that. So whether a guy is a peach or rough around the edges I do my job. Scott, I'll make it personal and say that if my involvement in that or any other thread upset you I apologize. I thought we went over this and you realize that I was being reactive. I thought it was behind us. But publicly I will tell you I apologize again. I hope we can all be fair to each other and polite and enjoy the hobby together. I have no reason to upset anyone. It doesn't benefit me and it doesn't please me. I hope you understand my sincerity when I congratulate you on your car and that I would love more than nothing else just to enjoy this forum as a positive contribution to the community like everyone else. As a friend and comrade, someone who is helpful AND a vendor who sponsors and sells things. The second thing and frankly most important to me is to publicly make it extremely clear, (because I think it is on the other forum but not here) that I have not had a single person complain to me about not achieving something or buying something from me because of E-Gear or anyone for that matter and being upset about it. The reason I am a 1-man-show is because you will only be my friend or deal with me because of me. Sambo. And you will always be fully informed. No smoke and no mirrors. The only people who possibly have been mentioning anything different are people who have not purchased anything from me or some other reason besides actually getting effected by me. If I am wrong, if you have in anyway shape or form been offended or aren't happy about me make it public loud and clear and I will address it like a man responsibly. For those few people who have not personally dealt with me who make these type of comments without knowing me read up a little bit. Aside from the reputation read up about our accomplishments. I didn't need e gear for people to think we did good work. Most certainly I didn't need him to try and fool anyone on my behalf or fool me for that matter. No drama. As much as people say I do a good job I want them to say louder if I don't and I will do a better job. So I'm here. To answer any questions and to be very humbly responsible.

To Stealth and anyone who feel the way he does. I wasn't and am not ashamed. I am angry and upset because I was lied to the same way if not worse. I am sorry though to anyone for posting the slip I was told was earned and real. I publicly stated that I was asking for that thread to be removed because E-gear had done this several times and it was being spoken about in many places at once. All of them referenced each offense. No motives. If you would like it to stay up then the mods have my blessing. I will just pour my heart out there as well mate. Sorry to you. I never understand your aggressive approach. I don't have "unwhitting customers" and i have been at the top of my game before E-Gear. I would love to talk with you about myself and earn your respect and friendship.

Randy, I hope you understand that this claim he fabricated was not so insane that I would be crazy to beleive it. These are amazing cars. It was a stretch but it's possible. More crazy to me would be thinking a grown man would put so much effort into doing this. Sincerely!

Ace, thanks for posting. I am avaiable if you have any questuions.

To those who showed me great support and knew from the beginning to never question me… Thank you!

Sorry for the really long post. I thought I made it clear on 6 Speed online my standing...And I know the right people read it and heard my thoughts already. I still feel I can talk for days about how wrong it was, how I wish I had known, how I appreciate those who spotted it and commend them for bringing it to light. But I really want to show to those whom I haven't had the pleasure how I do things. Because I take it really personally if anyone is upset and I have anything to do with it. Especially if I don't know about it. Especially if anyone who dealt with me didn't know this about me.

cheers

sdg1871

Kudos to you Sam. Yes you have had a bunch of big achievements with customers running your mods. If I am not mistaken you have the fastest 991 Turbo S in US at a 9.7 with a Stage 4 turbo upgrade and I believe meth too if memory serves me right and that was pre PDK upgrade. Your Stage 3 car owned by Nigel beat all other Porsches at ShiftSector last spring if I remember.

I don't recall a 10.07 but I could have missed a post.

I accept you word that you believe the times were true. As for me I had expressed problems with not only the fact the original time slip posted by this member was cut off but that it showed a 10.05 ET from a non outstanding 60 foot time of 1.52. My understanding from looking at many fast Timeslips from 991 Turbos is that with this particular car to get into the 10.0 range you would need a 60 foot time in the 1.4s given the level of power or the limitations on power the car is capable of producing and that a 1.5 something 60 foot time would never produce a 10.05 as our cars especially without turbos nitrous or meth are just not capable of that much power in the upper end of the power band/the second eighth of a mile of the dragstrip. To me that was as big a red flag as the slip's cut off condition. But I do believe that you believe in your customers especially ones who contact you repeatedly to try to make the car faster as you say happened here.

You have a strong reputation in the 911 Turbo world as honest, hardworking and providing great customer service. Which is why I believe you were fooled by E Gear as much as the rest of us. The majority of my friends in the 911 Turbo world actually run your mods instead of ones on mine.