Hugo Gunnarsen

Hi guys, my 991.1 Turbo S is now 2 years old, and not as quick as it used to be (yeah I finally got used to the insane acceleration), so I'm thinking about doing an ECU tune to 620-640hp range ... I know this will break the warranty (at least some or all of it?). Have anybody done this, and have some real experience / advice with regards to ECU tuning?

I'm not too concerned about smog tests (still 4 more years, and I assume I can re-flash before smog test if it comes to that).

Should I also get new exhaust if I do a ECU flash? Any real concern about potentially breaking the engine/transmission/drive?

Is it worth it? (what about mileage, any real changes, except top speed?). Or should I just hang back and wait for the 992, and perhaps 640 hp? (given it's competitors now are above the 600hp mark - RS7, M6, R8, Huracan, Z06, GTR, ...).

Thanks in advance for any insight and suggestions.

soulsea

Everything I've heard about the COBB tune is that you get a lot more fast without taxing the internals ... so far as I know people even run them on track without any issues.

No doubt that you are rolling the warranty dice a smidgen, but by all accounts it's a good gamble. I'm sure it's happened but it's not like the Porsche TTS forums are littered with complaints about tunes reking their engines. Also from what I gather the GIAC folks will cover any damage Porsche doesn't, although I also gather thet a GIAC tune isn't as plug and play as the COBB and you can't unload it every time you go to the dealer for service.

I'm sure others with experience with these tunes will chime in with better info than I have, but I wouldn't worry so much about your warranty. Whether the next buyer that you sell the car to sees it as a reason to pay less for it because it's been tuned is another question.

ace37

The few charts I've seen indicate you'll need an exhaust if you want to improve the top end - the OEM cat and exhaust system is the first bottleneck. That said, you may enjoy a new sound as much as more power if you pick something well suited to your personal taste.

I'll be surprised if the 992 turbo S isn't in the 600-620 bhp range out of the box, and you'll be waiting several more years. Wasn't 997.2 to 991.1TTS +30bhp? Then +20 more to get to 580 with the current 991.2.

Looking at it from a different angle, eight years for +50bhp is a very long time compared to ordering an exhaust and flashing your ECU. Worst case you're the one guy that loses a motor, but if you get a new TTS, even in the best case the depreciation is steep and might hit you harder.

I'd say if a few parts and a tune gets you to hold you out for one more four year release cycle you're much better off taking the risk. If not, get a new one.

L_perm

Didn't anyone ever tell you? You CAN tune a piano, but you CAN'T tune a fish.

Not sure where cars fit in, but I thought knowing the truth about fish tuning might help you solve your conundrum.

Good luck,
LP

K.A.W.

I'm responding purely because I like the title of this thread.

I have a custom COBB tune and exhaust and nothing else. I ran 10.3 @ 132mph.

I've had the exhaust and tune on my car since right after I bought it in Feb. If I had to go back to stock exhaust and no tune I would just sell the car.

Re: the warranty, you must establish a good relationship with your service manager. I had a twin turbo V10 Audi R8 and my service manager still pushed work through and made sure nothing was flagged as unusual. And similarly, my current Porsche service manager knows full well about my tune (he even refers other customers to my tuner) and still takes care of my every need. Also, with COBB you can flash back to stock and they'd have to do some serious investigation to see that it has been messed with (send the ECU to Germany which I've not heard of them doing bc they don't really want to **** of customers that buy one of their most expensive cars).

So, in summary, do it!

Masonbrick

I think Champion Motorsports sells a GIAC tune that they warranty, or match the standing warranty with their own. They also have that nice Tubi Style exhaust

If I was ever going to modify my Turbo I would only deal with them specifically for that reason.

stealthpilot

Who is your service manager?

speed21

If you've been led to believe that then you've been seriously led astray.

If your car develops any sort of engine drive-line issues which require major component replacement the dealer will be required to provide proof to HQ that the claim is indeed warrantable. No if buts or maybe's.

Removing the ECU is not necessary least of all sending it back to Germany to make the analysis. That is nonsense. Dealer techs may not have the level of skill to interpret a VAL but HQ does and they will definitely call for one before accepting any of those types of claims. Make no mistake about that. Things have changed a lot in the past few years. If you are putting a tune in or using any aftermarket mod such as exhaust, different inter-coolers, altered turbocharges etc on your car a VAL will show it up. Don't kid yourself.

If your dealer wishes to oblige you the cost of repairs out of their own pocket then that is their prerogative and a separate matter altogether. Basically, if you mod your car you have no official warranty - i.e: you are on your own.

Whether you can flash it back to stock to try and fool the VAL you never will, so why bother? Just leave the tune in and take your medicine if/when the time comes around.

ace37

I agree.

If you tune the car and the stereo goes out you'll be fine and they'll need to fix it. Same story if the sunroof goes out or one of the headlights burns out. A PDK issue would depend on what failed.

But if your tuned car gets things too hot, a turbo exhaust turbine melts, and little bits of metal fly into your catalytic converter, there's a good chance the tune really was the primary cause of the failure. And to be ethical, you're going to have to be honest with the dealer, know they genuinely have no obligation, and see if they are willing to help you out anyway or not. You broke it, so why should they have to pay to fix it?

Unlike an ECU tune, I'm not sure a street exhaust alone could really do anything meaningful if it has a catalytic converter. In that case I expect the data would be your ally if the powertrain has an issue.


All that said, the probability of a standard tune from Giac or Cobb toasting your car is very low, and the probability of you grinning when you press the go pedal after a tune+exhaust is very high.

ColdList

Yes and no. I have seen this happen where a dealer replaced heads on a car with a known tune. ECU isn't always read and set to the manufacturer. Of course, this is at dealer risk. So there is some validity to beneficial dealer relationships. Can't always speak in absolutes.

speed21

Some things you can. It's absolute in the sense Porsche will not warrant it nor reimburse any dealer that opts to fix it without their prior approval or, agreement to pick up the tab.

As mentioned, it's always a dealers prerogative whether they wish to absorb the costs of such "factory unwarranted" repairs in house at their own expense.

Where warranty is offered on a used car the same situation applies.

You'd be surprised just how big, big brother has become with these new ECU's. I was given a fairly good snapshot into just what it can show only just the other day as it so happens. Truly amazing! It will make your head spin.

I have an excellent long term relationship with my dealer but I wonder just how good that will prove if I popped an engine, turbocharger or transmission on a tuned car. Somehow I think I have my answer to that without even having to ask. However, if they sold me the car with a tune in it then they really don't have much of an option. It becomes a case where "they" are on their own.

Just saying if your dealers/service advisers assurances aren't in writing then they don't exist in any sense where Porsche HQ is concerned. That is absolute.

K.A.W.

Mike - I'll text you my service manager's name.

Sure are a lot of people weighing in here with no actual experience.

OP if you want to talk to people who have actually tuned and raced their 991 911 Turbos there are places you can do that, this doesn't appear to be one of them.

ace37

You sound a little grumpy in this post!

My buddy had that exact exhaust turbine failure I described happen in his cheap GM car. The dealership knew him well, covered it under warranty, and didn't mention the fact that he cooked it at the track running a session at 25psi on a car rated for 17. They did know and easily could have denied the claim. His tune and hardware wasn't adequate for track usage, but if he ran richer and without a cat the heat level may have stayed more manageable. He genuinely didn't have the money to fix it, so the dealer helped him out.

That's not very useful to the OP despite it being real world experience. It says relationships matter and sometimes are more important than the details. No surprises there, and he'd have to be the judge on whether to take a risk like that.

sdg1871

I have the GiAC Stage 2+, Champion Motorsports Intercoolers and Tubi catless race exhaust. In 17k miles absolutely no engine/PDK/turbo issues. Car runs perfect with OEM smoothness. And it carries the Champion warranty which matches the length of the OEM warranty. Best quarter mile so far is 10.316 and 132 mph on Pilot Super Sports.

speed21

How do you know what experience others may have here? I've had tunes and all sorts of mods on previous Porsches' but I would never seek to mislead anyone here on RL into believing Porsche will still warrant their cars.

Other than CMS I am unaware of any other tuner that will pick up the mantle when Porsche walks away from a claim. Funny about that - Vendor assurances not backed up by anything written. Pretty common. So how "safe" and non taxing on the engine and drive train really is it? I guess it's one of those things that's safe until the **** hits the fan....and then they all start ducking and weaving lol.

I also think soulsea was being very realistic in raising the valid point that when selling a tuned car only very few buyers would see it as a healthy proposition to take forward. I for one would walk.

I also feel if the discussion was kept realistic you would not have had any questions about what you were trying to infer. Your Service manager is an employee, not the dealer principle, or the Managing Director - or in the hierarchy of Porsche HQ technical/warranty resolutions.

The best solution: If the car isn't fast or powerful enough for you, and you want factory warranty, then buy one that is. Otherwise it's Caveat Emptor!