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HP difference in Turbo and Turbo S

 
Old 10-07-2013, 06:30 PM
  #1  
acroholic
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Default HP difference in Turbo and Turbo S

Guys,
I am familiar with the standard equipment differences between the 991 turbo and Turbo S, but where does the extra 40HP come from? Is it all ECU tuning and higher boost of the turbos? Or are there build differences, like different internal parts, cam, exhaust, whatever?

Why couldn't someone buy a Turbo, then program the engine to Turbo S specs and get that extra 40 without the higher price?

Thanks.
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Old 10-08-2013, 06:33 AM
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1. Engine hardware is the same.
2. According to rumors, Porsche chooses "better" engines (those with better "pressure" results in the dry test, I don't know how to explain it in German) for the Turbo S.
3. Software is different but it is almost impossible to switch a Turbo to the Turbo S software because not only the engine ECU is affected but many other control units too. It cannot be excluded that a tuner finds a way to do that but it is almost impossible that that tuner adjusts ALL control units to the new engine software.
4. Turbo S has a higher rev limit and a slightly louder exhaust/engine sound (sound symposer programmed slightly different). This is software related only.

If you compare a 991 Turbo S and a 991 Turbo with the same options, the price difference for the power increase is around 3-4k EUR, depending on the country you bought the car in.

Also keep in mind that Porsche voids the warranty if you modify the software, even with their own one.
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Rennteam View Post
1. Engine hardware is the same.
.
Not quite true, you should checkout this really good forum called Rennteam


http://www.rennteam.com/forum/page1.html?vs=9

"It wasn’t just a matter of recalibration, though. Porsche engineer’s additional fun “creates a higher load in extra heat and stresses for the piston. We’ve thus reinforced the pistons – and because we’ve added extra material, we’ve also had to fit new conrods, 2mm shorter than the regular turbo items."

http://fortyonesix.com/news/1320/por...ers-turbo-s-fo

talk about "hardware" differnece between the turbo and the turbo s!!
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Old 10-09-2013, 02:59 PM
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I wonder which mag will be the first that tests the S and non S back to back, I'd like to see those stats.
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Old 10-09-2013, 04:29 PM
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I ordered just the straight turbo because I didn't want the ceramic brakes and know I won't be unhappy if my 0-60 time is .1 second slower. And in my case there was 25K difference which is a nice watch or vacation. But if it's going to bug you not to have the S.........
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Old 10-09-2013, 05:25 PM
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For me the difference in price, that is going to buy the non S - even if you had the money to go S, is a FULL leather interior and some bling things.

My current non S build version, without deviated stitching since its not offered as an option - for some odd ball reason on the online configurator, is ~$181K.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:45 PM
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PDCC is another expensive standard option on the S, that you can skip with the base turbo. If the GT3 does not need pdcc, then it is not a very necessary option on a 911. Frankly, I would like a base turbo with the 560 hp option, but I don't want pccb, pdcc or centerlock wheels.
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Old 10-10-2013, 02:36 AM
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Thanks for the information, especially the info about the pistons/conrods. I have a black/black Turbo on order, and I know that an extra 40+ HP will be available via the aftermarket no problem after the car gets in the hands of the tuners, if I want it later on. I do have PDCC on my build. I experienced PDCC with a 2014 C2S Cab, and I really liked it.

My Turbo build totals about $171K with options, and my S build totaled $193K. I just could not justify the increased cost. Didn't want the ceramic brakes either.
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:57 AM
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My build which went hard 2 days ago was 166. It include PDCC. I got a couple of apperance options but not many. I have had 911's with and without full leather, my current 991S does not have it, and it doesn't add anything to the enjoyment of the car for me. My car is also black/black.
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by aamersa View Post
PDCC is another expensive standard option on the S, that you can skip with the base turbo. If the GT3 does not need pdcc, then it is not a very necessary option on a 911. Frankly, I would like a base turbo with the 560 hp option, but I don't want pccb, pdcc or centerlock wheels.
I got PDCC at the recommendation of the instructors at The Porsche Experience.
They drive cars with and without PDCC every day back to back. They found a big increase in tire life, cornering ability and ride quality since roll bars are relaxed when not needed. That was also my experience on my Carrera S on and off the track. The GT3 has a much firmer suspension than the Turbos and therefore
cornering lean is greatly reduced anyway. I loved it!
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:28 AM
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Posted much of this in a different thread in response to a similar question, but it may be more applicable in this thread. Please forgive the duplication, but it may help those trying to decide between the two Turbos. IMHO, Both are OMG fast and gorgeous.

991 Turbo S
Max. Power 560 hp
@ rpm 6500 - 6750 rpm
Max. Torque 516 lb.-ft.
@ rpm 2100 - 4250 rpm
Max. Torque with Overboost 553 lb.-ft.
@ rpm 2200 - 4000 rpm
Compression ratio 9.8 : 1

991 Turbo
Max. Power 520 hp
@ rpm 6000 - 6500 rpm
Max. Torque 487 lb.-ft.
@ rpm 1950 - 5000 rpm
Max. Torque with Overboost 524 lb.-ft.
@ rpm 2100 - 4250 rpm
Compression ratio 9.8 : 1

Although the Turbo S is rated at 560 HP, 516 lb.ft continuous Torque, and 553 lb.ft on overboost and has a 40 HP and 29 lb.ft Torque advantage over the Turbo's 520 HP - 487 / 524 lb.ft OB Torque, the lower and wider RPM range of the Turbo's specifications narrows the differences in actual available power considerably. The TTS requires 6500 RPM to make its rated 560 HP power over a 250 RPM range while the TT makes its rated 520 HP 500 RPM lower at 6000 RPM and holds it over a wider 500 RPM Range.

The higher TTS Maximum continuous Torque of 516 lb.ft holds over a 2100 RPM while the TT holds its maximum 487 lb.ft of Torque over a much wider 3050 RPM range. Similarly the Overboost TTS maximum Torque of 553 lb.ft holds over 1800 RPM while the Turbos OB Torque of 524 lb.ft is held over a wider 2150 RPM range. BTW, Both Porsche Turbos make more Torque at far lower RPM than the 2014 Nissan GTR's 463 lb.ft. at 3,200 RPM.
These wider TT spec ranges brings the actual power output of the TT much closer to the TTS than the 6-8% power spec delta indicates. This has been noted by several reviewers who have driven both cars back to back and found very little differences in power. Both perform well into SuperCar territory. Similarly, the 997 TTs have laptimes very similar to the 997 TTSs. http://fastestlaps.com/
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by TB993tt View Post
Not quite true, you should checkout this really good forum called Rennteam


http://www.rennteam.com/forum/page1.html?vs=9

"It wasn’t just a matter of recalibration, though. Porsche engineer’s additional fun “creates a higher load in extra heat and stresses for the piston. We’ve thus reinforced the pistons – and because we’ve added extra material, we’ve also had to fit new conrods, 2mm shorter than the regular turbo items."

http://fortyonesix.com/news/1320/por...ers-turbo-s-fo

talk about "hardware" differnece between the turbo and the turbo s!!
I hate to repeat myself but let's do it again: The engine hardware is 100% the SAME.
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by acroholic View Post
Thanks for the information, especially the info about the pistons/conrods. I have a black/black Turbo on order, and I know that an extra 40+ HP will be available via the aftermarket no problem after the car gets in the hands of the tuners, if I want it later on. I do have PDCC on my build. I experienced PDCC with a 2014 C2S Cab, and I really liked it.

My Turbo build totals about $171K with options, and my S build totaled $193K. I just could not justify the increased cost. Didn't want the ceramic brakes either.
The information about the pistons/conrods is NOT correct. The engine hardware is 100% the same.
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ajag View Post
I wonder which mag will be the first that tests the S and non S back to back, I'd like to see those stats.
The 200 rpm (rev limiter at 7200 rpm instead of 7000 rpm) make a bigger impact on performance than people would imagine. The shifting ratio has been chosen in a way that benefits the Turbo S with the higher rev limiter.

That said, the 0-100 kph and even 0-200 kph performance won't be much different BUT when it comes to acceleration runs in between speeds or acceleration runs over 200 kph (125 mph), the Turbo S will have an advantage. According to rumors, the Turbo S is aprox. 3-4 seconds faster from 0-300 kph than the regular Turbo. Of course this doesn't really matter for speed limited countries but like I said before: If someone chooses all the performance options (PDCC, Sport Chrono) for the Turbo and some other options too, the only difference would be the PCCB and maybe 3-4k EUR. So if you add the PCCB to a Turbo order, why not choose the Turbo S instead. If people don't want PCCB, ordering a Turbo may make sense in speed limited countries, indeed.
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:36 AM
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Porsche does not put full leather as a standard option on the Turbo anymore for $160k base? Thats a rip- they really turned the screws to 11 on this one.
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