NZ951

People having a cry that they get access to buying new models quickly? Ummmm wow.

FastLaneTurbo

New 991 Porsche Turbo S breaks previous 997 Turbo S Lap times at Nurburgring

The Good News for Porsche is that the newest Model 991 Twin Turbo S announced last week is that it has already lapped the Nurburgringin 7:26.00, 6 seconds faster than the previous 2010 997 Turbo S's time of 7: 32.00. The newest lap time was faster than the 2011 997 GT3RS 4.0's time of 7:27.00, the 2003 Carrera GT's Time of 7:28.71, the 2010 McLaren MP4-12C's time of 7:28.00, and much faster
than the 2011 991 Carrera S's time of 7:37.90.

The Bad News is that the 2014 Turbo S model's time remains slower than many of its competitors, some older and/or much lower in price:
2011 Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4 at 7:25.00, 2005 Pagani Zonda F Clubsport at 7:24.65, 2004 Maserati MC12 at 7:24.29, 2011 Corvette ZO6 at 7:22.68, 2008 Corvette ZR1 at 7:19.63, 2012 Nissan Gt-R and 2011 Porsche GT2RS tied at 7:18.00,2012 Lexus LFA at 7:14.64, and the 2008 Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR at 7:12.13.

In Porsche's favor is that the new 2014 Turbo S's lap times can be expected to decrease further as experience with the new car increases, other highly experienced "hot shoes" drive it, and it becomes more "dialed in" to the unique Nurburgring requirements.

Tough Competition out there for Sports Car Bragging Rights!

FMI: http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

Carrera GT

I'm not sure all those times are for the same start/finish of the ring, or for cars in the same state of preparation or really even comparable cars (the Viper ACR, Zonda Clubsport, Aventador ... these are so unrelated, why not include a Radical or a low flying fighter jet.)

Of all that, I read that the 991 Turbo S is still far off the pace of the GT2RS (if those two laps are the same setup, same distance.) It would be great to get the data from both laps. I wonder if perhaps the GT2RS had about 1/3rd as many gear shifts (thereby negating the PDK advantage to a large extent.) It seems like the weight or the tires of the Turbo S might be hampering its performance, and 4WS doesn't seem to have done as much as it does in the GT3 relatively, but horses for courses.

FastLaneTurbo

The Nordschleife Distance is standardized on Fastest Laps at 20,600 Meters and I have to assume that Porsche knows how to prepare a car and select a driver before going for a lap record that many customers will consider.

The choice for me is between a Nissan GT-R and a Porsche Turbo - S or GT2RS. It becomes difficult to justify spending $185K for a lower performance TTS or $275K for a GT2RS for comparable performance that can be achieved at $110K in a GT-R, Corvette or Viper. Weight seems not to be a factor since the GT-R weighs 350 Lbs more than the Turbo with an engine of similar displacement and HP. OEM Street Tires were used on both the Nissan and Porsche Turbos. Hopefully Porsche will find some of that "Go Fast Magic Dust"
which the GT-R must be using.

Carrera GT

There are different distances and start finishes used by Sport Auto or whatever. I'm not sure about the relative time differences. In any case, these are not cars to be considered by the same buyer. A million dollar exotic here or there is not to be compared to stripped, limited production Viper or the peculiarly quick times you note of the GTR. Nissan just announced the pricing of the 2014 GTR Track Junkie Edition at $115K or maybe $120K with option pack and taxes.
http://www.windingroad.com/articles/...-on-2014-gt-r/
545hp at 463 lbft carrying 3850lb claimed, give or take Track Edition weight savings.
It also carries the burden of being pig ugly. : )
But the GTR certainly raises the question of $185K for the Turbo S as being just a tad, maybe $50K overpriced ... I'd be wanting at least 20% discount to even consider the Turbo S at $200K sticker.
Anyway, the GT2RS was $235K, it's not "comparable" it's 10 seconds faster, and a pretty rare bird these days, but for whatever dealers might advertising $275K for a RS 4.0 or 2RS, I doubt they're changing hands up there other than between bubble wrappers.
Anyone with an '09 Turbo or GT2 should be feeling pretty good now that they know what the 991 offers. And RS 3.8 and RS 4.0 owners should be buying a round of drinks for everyone! : )

STUARTQ

Buying a Porsche has changed ever since the 996 was launched.
Before then, we were looking at low ish production for a very sort after car, a Porsche 911.
The brand is still special, but the cars are now made in high volume and with each new 911 variant, (996,997 & 991) the cars are getting better and better, but the values of the passing models are getting lower and lower, to a point where most of the air cooled cars are more expensive to buy than the the early water cooled cars and early 996's are not desirable at all. The 1980's models hardly lost any value through their production era, 996 and 997 values have dropped like stones to a point where even 964's in some cases are now more expensive than good early 997's and this will continue with the 991. It's clear that Porsches are no longer solely the domain of the real enthusiast. The cars that are not so effected are the special run out models, and the GT3 versions.
This doesn't make them any the less a great car but this is how it is.

Slowekistan

Unfortunately.

NZ951

I literally dont care how fast various Porsche models are, 300HP (in my 996) is MORE than enough power for the street, and I certainly dont care about a few seconds difference over the ring. The fact is unless you are racing the car, its irrelevant.

Dag Johnsen

The only real reference is Sport Auto magazine Supertest numbers,all cars driven by Horst Von Saurma under a certain set of rules. We have to wait and see :-)
The Porsche numbers and Nissan numbers, only good with video proof. Last Porsche 991 video released shows a 6-7 seconds faster laptime than it really is, if you follow the watch on your media player or stopwatch.
Nissan perfect their laps so much it is a huge gap between those guys and other FAST drivers testing their cars.

The distance though is mostly the standardised 20.600 meters "sport auto" lap only missing a 232 meter part of the old start finish straight. (takes about 4-6 seconds due to what car)

Dag :-)

Igooz

I maybe off my skis here, but I recently was at the dealer to service my wife's Cayenne (love the service/tech guys) and decided to look around the showroom...Of course the salesman talked to me (something I hate) about the cars and stuff... He told me one bit of statistics (not sure if it is true - so I let the RL experts validate): "...90% of the Panameras and Cayennes and around 60% of the 911's in the US are company leases. In fact, Porsche has some deals where you can lease new 911's for between $7xx to $12xx / month..."

Basically, Porsche is making it easy to drive a Porsche. Seems like a smart move on their part to move products. For all I know, maybe there is also a Porsche lease on the CPOs?

It seems like a good move by Porsche and maybe it allows them to raise the window stickers (MSRPs), but help folks manage to a monthly payment?

...anyhow...this was all new to me...

Bob in NY

LoL! There is no substitute for power.

Bob in NY

Used cars don't get leased, the payment is tied to residual value. The more the car is worth at the end of the lease the lower the payment. Those cheap leases you're quoting are 5k ~ 6k miles a year with a good amount at delivery. I doubt people are leasing Porsches based on low payments. The fact is these cars have increased in price significantly over the last 5 years. My 07 Turbo new was the same price as a well optioned 991s today.

indecisive

IMO the reason is, there are so many other insanely high performance models out there, Porsche can't wait 4 years to roll out the turbo / turbo S models. They will simply look silly "waiting" to wait. There are quite a few <3sec cars out there now. They can't wait until 2016 to roll one out. Why would they? It is "free" money.

Great time to be a car guy, so many great vehicles out there.

Rennteam

The best selling Porsche models are the Cayenne and the Panamera.
The 911 is not that important, so there is less "fuss" about it when a new model shows up. Yes, the 911 means tradition but Porsche needs to earn money too and the 911 profits from good Cayenne and Panamera sales, no doubt about it.
Customers want different versions of cars and cars get old fast, so why not crank out as many different variations as possible as soon as possible?
Also don't forget that the new Macan is due at some point and Porsche really doesn't want to steal the thunder of this car, so I guess that around the Macan release, no other Porsche model will be presented for a short while.
Then, the Cayenne facelift is due and of course there is the 918, Porsche cannot wait a 12 months for each and every model variation they want to present. It just doesn't make sense.
I don't know why everybody always blames VW for anything at Porsche because VW and Porsche are two separate companies. Porsche is "only" part of the VW Group, they profit from synergies and other development benefits but in the end, Porsche is Porsche, even if VW runs the show behind the curtains. Please stop always blaming VW, this is absolutely inaccurate.

Carrera GT

Rennteam is an odd choice of username, but assuming you don't operate rennteam, I'll take your comments as opinion, not assertions of facts, though you've written as if you're advising small children of the way the world turns.

The sales reports make it clear the Cayenne is the cash cow and some have said the Macan is expected to be far more than a badged VW Tiguan. Here's hoping. But the rest of what you've suggested is conjecture from the outside looking in. VW has already made statements about their control of Porsche. There's no such thing as a billion dollar acquisition (this is no "merger") where the acquirer and the subsumed somehow continue unaltered. VW has run this game plan with several other beloved marques and the results have been less than lovable. I think it's entirely accurate to depict VW in a shiny black mask with respiratory problems.